San Diego v Sturm v IIT-Kent for IP Law / Patent Litigation

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which offer would be the best for an IP law student?

IIT-Kent ($60K, some scholarship expected)
2
22%
University of San Diego ($60K, some scholarship expected)
7
78%
Sturm at Denver University ($55K, no scholarship expected)
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 9

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22808
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: San Diego v Sturm v IIT-Kent for IP Law / Patent Litigation

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:31 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
romothesavior wrote:I am confused by your nunbers. Is that cost in the poll per year? If so, RUN from all of these schools. 180k in principal for a school like these? You're out of your mind if you'd pay that for these job prospects.

And I understand that you are tired of teaching. But one more year of teaching and being miserable or a boatload of debt and being in/underemployed and far more miserable for a long time?

Retake is TCR.


And if you burn out of teacher, I have no clue how you'd make it at a law firm.

The seven hour days and 4 months of vacation must be tiring.

I realize you're probably just trolling, but you've never been a teacher, have you?


I was sorta trolling, but teachers at the high school I attended rolled into school at 7:15: left at 3:30 and had three- 50 minute periods off. More like 3.5 months off.

But you realize they actually have to work outside the time they're in class, right?

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: San Diego v Sturm v IIT-Kent for IP Law / Patent Litigation

Postby 09042014 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:37 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:

And if you burn out of teacher, I have no clue how you'd make it at a law firm.

The seven hour days and 4 months of vacation must be tiring.

I realize you're probably just trolling, but you've never been a teacher, have you?


I was sorta trolling, but teachers at the high school I attended rolled into school at 7:15: left at 3:30 and had three- 50 minute periods off. More like 3.5 months off.

But you realize they actually have to work outside the time they're in class, right?


Assuming they take one of those as a lunch. That's 100 minutes a day of planning or whatever. And if you take the extra two months off into account (leaving 1.5 for vacation), there is a lot more.

I would be shocked if a fifth year teacher was working even 40 hours a week (averaged over the whole year).

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22808
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: San Diego v Sturm v IIT-Kent for IP Law / Patent Litigation

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:07 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I would be shocked if a fifth year teacher was working even 40 hours a week (averaged over the whole year).

Well, first, you can't really average over the whole year to get a sense of what teaching is like - having (in theory) more time off doesn't mean that it isn't a killer job when you're doing it. And second, your description is totally unlike the experience of everyone I know who has taught high school. But I doubt I'll change your mind about it, so, eh.

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: San Diego v Sturm v IIT-Kent for IP Law / Patent Litigation

Postby 09042014 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:14 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I would be shocked if a fifth year teacher was working even 40 hours a week (averaged over the whole year).

Maybe it varies by school district, but the teachers I know worked more like 60 hour weeks. They have to grade student work (say they're teaching 4 classes of 30 students - that's 120 things to grade every time there's an assignment, and think about how often you had to turn stuff in in high school. Just and calculating and recording the grades takes quite a lot of time, especially when you're actually writing assessments that go back to the student/family, as opposed to college profs who just enter a grade). They have to fill out paperwork. They have to meet with students individually. They may have to oversee detention. They have to do administrative departmental stuff. (Like prepare for all the standardized tests students have to take these days.) They have to figure out how to accommodate students on IEPs. At a lot of schools, they're involved in extracurricular activities - school newspaper, theater, sports, whatever. They have to have regular meetings with parents. They even do goofy things like decorate their classrooms (and in many cases, they have to buy their own school supplies). Most of this is stuff they can't put off till the summer, which is when they engage in professional development (which they're often required to do to keep their positions). And there are also lots of teachers who take extra jobs in the summer to make up for teaching salaries.

I realize TFA isn't the best example because of course you're throwing newbies into the classroom, but even so, people don't burn out and leave teaching when their TFA term is up because the job isn't hard enough. I mean, sure, the prep gets easier after you've done it for a few years, but that's not the only issue.


In my HS, they almost never graded work based on correctness, they just kinda checked that you tried. Meaning you could check 120 pages in an hour. And in grade school it was often just write the answer on a line, and they'd grade with a key. And a lot of teachers offloaded that work to teachers pets.

And a lot of in class time we would do work quietly while the teacher graded papers.

Even if they worked 60 hours (which they don't) that's still only 50 hours a week when you factor in them getting 1/6th the year off in free vacation. And I don't believe they actually do 60.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22808
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: San Diego v Sturm v IIT-Kent for IP Law / Patent Litigation

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:19 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I would be shocked if a fifth year teacher was working even 40 hours a week (averaged over the whole year).

Maybe it varies by school district, but the teachers I know worked more like 60 hour weeks. They have to grade student work (say they're teaching 4 classes of 30 students - that's 120 things to grade every time there's an assignment, and think about how often you had to turn stuff in in high school. Just and calculating and recording the grades takes quite a lot of time, especially when you're actually writing assessments that go back to the student/family, as opposed to college profs who just enter a grade). They have to fill out paperwork. They have to meet with students individually. They may have to oversee detention. They have to do administrative departmental stuff. (Like prepare for all the standardized tests students have to take these days.) They have to figure out how to accommodate students on IEPs. At a lot of schools, they're involved in extracurricular activities - school newspaper, theater, sports, whatever. They have to have regular meetings with parents. They even do goofy things like decorate their classrooms (and in many cases, they have to buy their own school supplies). Most of this is stuff they can't put off till the summer, which is when they engage in professional development (which they're often required to do to keep their positions). And there are also lots of teachers who take extra jobs in the summer to make up for teaching salaries.

I realize TFA isn't the best example because of course you're throwing newbies into the classroom, but even so, people don't burn out and leave teaching when their TFA term is up because the job isn't hard enough. I mean, sure, the prep gets easier after you've done it for a few years, but that's not the only issue.


In my HS, they almost never graded work based on correctness, they just kinda checked that you tried. Meaning you could check 120 pages in an hour. And in grade school it was often just write the answer on a line, and they'd grade with a key. And a lot of teachers offloaded that work to teachers pets.

And a lot of in class time we would do work quietly while the teacher graded papers.

Even if they worked 60 hours (which they don't) that's still only 50 hours a week when you factor in them getting 1/6th the year off in free vacation. And I don't believe they actually do 60.

Yeah, I edited based on the fact that I figured I wasn't going to change your mind. I mean, I actually know a bunch of high school teachers, and that's the amount of work they do. But maybe all your teachers were burnt out slackers, I have no idea.

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: San Diego v Sturm v IIT-Kent for IP Law / Patent Litigation

Postby 09042014 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:24 pm

In order to get to 60 hours, they have to be doing like 5 hours a work day minimum outside of class. That is absurd, they aren't doing that.

This claims 53 http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ans ... _blog.html. But they aren't subtracting lunch hour(which nobody counts as a work). And people inflate their work from home.

I'd be willing to buy 48. Which comes out to 40 adjusted. Even 53 comes out to 44ish. Pretty average.

I will say, teachers in many poor rural areas are criminally underpaid. But a lot of districts overpay.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22808
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: San Diego v Sturm v IIT-Kent for IP Law / Patent Litigation

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:30 pm

Desert Fox wrote:In order to get to 60 hours, they have to be doing like 5 hours a work day minimum outside of class. That is absurd, they aren't doing that.

This claims 53 http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ans ... _blog.html. But they aren't subtracting lunch hour(which nobody counts as a work). And people inflate their work from home.

I'd be willing to buy 48. Which comes out to 40 adjusted. Even 53 comes out to 44ish. Pretty average.

I will say, teachers in many poor rural areas are criminally underpaid. But a lot of districts overpay.

Nah, 5 hours a day outside of class is totally reasonable, especially when you factor in weekends (you think when your teacher passed back papers on a Monday morning, they all got graded the previous Friday?). But I also don't buy that you can really factor the summers off into the equation. I don't care if you get x number of weeks off in the summer, a 60-hour week still feels like a 60-hour week.

User avatar
thisiswater
Posts: 995
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 1:51 am

Re: San Diego v Sturm v IIT-Kent for IP Law / Patent Litigation

Postby thisiswater » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:39 pm

Desert Fox wrote:In order to get to 60 hours, they have to be doing like 5 hours a work day minimum outside of class. That is absurd, they aren't doing that.

This claims 53 http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ans ... _blog.html. But they aren't subtracting lunch hour(which nobody counts as a work). And people inflate their work from home.

I'd be willing to buy 48. Which comes out to 40 adjusted. Even 53 comes out to 44ish. Pretty average.

I will say, teachers in many poor rural areas are criminally underpaid. But a lot of districts overpay.



So much of this is specific to certain schools though that this conversation is silly. In my high school, teachers had to be their from 7-4 minimum, lunch was 25 minutes long, and all teacher's supervised ISS, study hall or the computer labs during their prep period (so it was still actually work time). And then most had extracurriculars, grading, class of whatever year teacher stuff, parent meetings, and on and on and on

Spartan_Alum_12
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:14 pm

Re: San Diego v Sturm v IIT-Kent for IP Law / Patent Litigation

Postby Spartan_Alum_12 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:59 pm

As others have said, it will be difficult to break into Patent Law with a Math degree unfortunately. For litigation, you really should pick the best school (USD for San Diego in this case) and do real well if you can't retake. It will very unlikely or impossible to get a prosecution job unless you have an engineering degree. Without a good backup plan, this is a risk.

User avatar
J-e-L-L-o
Posts: 418
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: San Diego v Sturm v IIT-Kent for IP Law / Patent Litigation

Postby J-e-L-L-o » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:03 pm

Spartan_Alum_12 wrote:As others have said, it will be difficult to break into Patent Law with a Math degree unfortunately. For litigation, you really should pick the best school (USD for San Diego in this case) and do real well if you can't retake. It will very unlikely or impossible to get a prosecution job unless you have an engineering degree. Without a good backup plan, this is a risk.


Wrong. Do not go to law school if these are your only options and can't retake.

Agent
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:03 pm

Re: San Diego v Sturm v IIT-Kent for IP Law / Patent Litigation

Postby Agent » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:06 pm

OP, I recommend that you avoid each of the options discussed in the initial post. I won't look at this thread again, so PM me if you want to chat about the IP job hunt. Your initial post concerns me—keep an eye on that spending.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: nightie and 1 guest