Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which school should I attend?

Harvard (15k)
27
38%
Chicago (Ruby)
45
63%
 
Total votes: 72

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby Dr. Dre » Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:07 pm

ManOfTheMinute wrote: A JD is a JD.


unless you get into Yale

envisciguy
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby envisciguy » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:08 pm

Chicago and don't look back. Of course Harvard is going to tell you at their ASW that you can write your own ticket there. But having minimal debt will give you more opportunities from Chicago.

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Ave
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby Ave » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:12 pm

it all depends how debt averse you are: also, it's too easy to conceive of and dismiss the mass amounts of debt you will accrue in the comforts of your present situation

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02889
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby 02889 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:18 pm

Emma. wrote:As an example, the conventional TLS wisdom is that Yale practically has mystical powers when it comes to securing A3 clerkships, but I know for sure that my judge doesn't go any deeper into Yale's class than he does for Chicago.

Wut? It's not just made up, there are years of data that show 30+% of YLS students do clerkships immediately after graduation (and I think I remember seeing something saying that like 50+% from each class eventually do them) whereas the at-graduation rate for Chicago on down just hovers around 10% most years. It's fine to say that Yale is just about the same as Harvard or Chicago for most things, but clerkship placement is just not one of them.

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Nelson
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby Nelson » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:05 pm

If you have the demonstrated public service interest to get an RTK, you get one, and you want to do public interest, I would take the RTK. It's a scholarship with actual name recognition in the PI community. You'll get a lot more public interest support at NYU with an RTK than you would at Chicago.

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Emma.
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby Emma. » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:12 pm

02889 wrote:
Emma. wrote:As an example, the conventional TLS wisdom is that Yale practically has mystical powers when it comes to securing A3 clerkships, but I know for sure that my judge doesn't go any deeper into Yale's class than he does for Chicago.

Wut? It's not just made up, there are years of data that show 30+% of YLS students do clerkships immediately after graduation (and I think I remember seeing something saying that like 50+% from each class eventually do them) whereas the at-graduation rate for Chicago on down just hovers around 10% most years. It's fine to say that Yale is just about the same as Harvard or Chicago for most things, but clerkship placement is just not one of them.


Yeah, I don't want to come across as an OTT UChicago troll, and I should have been clearer. YLS definitely has a strong edge on clerkship placement in general, but it is also really hard to know how much of that is self selection. I know there are people in my class who were super qualified for fed clerkships but chose not to even apply. A significant part of the numbers you cite might be attributed to YLS just having a culture that fosters more interest in clerking. However, while I wasn't intending to suggest that UChi gives students all the same options as Yale as far as clerkships go, that actually is the case as far as my judge goes.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby Dr. Dre » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:15 pm

Emma. wrote: I know there are people in my class who were super qualified for fed clerkships but chose not to even apply. A sign.



They probably seemed very qualified to you, but weren't in reality. Also, sampling fallacy.

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BerkeleyBear
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby BerkeleyBear » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:17 pm

Take the Ruby and profit.

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Emma.
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby Emma. » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:18 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:
Emma. wrote: I know there are people in my class who were super qualified for fed clerkships but chose not to even apply. A sign.



They probably seemed very qualified to you, but weren't in reality. Also, sampling fallacy.


I have no idea what you are talking about. I am 100% confident that several of my classmates would have crushed district court hiring if they had chosen to apply. That is all I am saying. There is no sampling fallacy here.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby Dr. Dre » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:20 pm

Emma. wrote:I have no idea what you are talking about. I am 100% confident that several of my classmates would have crushed district court hiring if they had chosen to apply. That is all I am saying. There is no sampling fallacy here.


so they are qualified because you are 100 % sure they are qualified?

begs the question.


OP, if you get in to Yale, go to Yale.

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:26 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:
Emma. wrote:I have no idea what you are talking about. I am 100% confident that several of my classmates would have crushed district court hiring if they had chosen to apply. That is all I am saying. There is no sampling fallacy here.


so they are qualified because you are 100 % sure they are qualified?

begs the question.


OP, if you get in to Yale, go to Yale.


OP please don't listen to this foolishness. I'm not saying don't go to Yale but a couple hundred grand is still a couple hundred grand, weigh your choices carefully.

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Emma.
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby Emma. » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:28 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:
Emma. wrote:I have no idea what you are talking about. I am 100% confident that several of my classmates would have crushed district court hiring if they had chosen to apply. That is all I am saying. There is no sampling fallacy here.


so they are qualified because you are 100 % sure they are qualified?

begs the question.


OP, if you get in to Yale, go to Yale.


Um. There are pretty straightforward metrics for this stuff. Believe it or not though there are plenty of smart, talented kids that aren't interested in the preftige, or don't want to take the pay cut or have to deal with moving two more times before starting at their firm. I mean, they didn't apply we'll never know for sure how they would have done, but as far as "objective" measurements like grades and writing skills, these were kids near the top of the class.

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pedestrian
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby pedestrian » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:28 pm

Emma. wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:
Emma. wrote: I know there are people in my class who were super qualified for fed clerkships but chose not to even apply. A sign.



They probably seemed very qualified to you, but weren't in reality. Also, sampling fallacy.


I have no idea what you are talking about. I am 100% confident that several of my classmates would have crushed district court hiring if they had chosen to apply. That is all I am saying. There is no sampling fallacy here.


What you don't know is what % of students at other schools chose not to apply for clerkships, despite having classmates who are 100% sure that they would have crushed it. For all you know, a much larger percentage at Yale could have been qualified, but self-selected out. That is the sampling issue - your sample is your friends at a single school, which is meaningless.

This is silly because OP isn't asking about clerkships or Yale, but your reasoning is still fallacious.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby Dr. Dre » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:30 pm

pedestrian wrote:your reasoning is still fallacious.

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Emma.
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby Emma. » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:30 pm

pedestrian wrote:
Emma. wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:
Emma. wrote: I know there are people in my class who were super qualified for fed clerkships but chose not to even apply. A sign.



They probably seemed very qualified to you, but weren't in reality. Also, sampling fallacy.


I have no idea what you are talking about. I am 100% confident that several of my classmates would have crushed district court hiring if they had chosen to apply. That is all I am saying. There is no sampling fallacy here.


What you don't know is what % of students at other schools chose not to apply for clerkships, despite having classmates who are 100% sure that they would have crushed it. For all you know, a much larger percentage at Yale could have been qualified, but self-selected out. That is the sampling issue - your sample is your friends at a single school, which is meaningless.

This is silly because OP isn't asking about clerkships or Yale, but your reasoning is still fallacious.


Sweet straw man.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby Dr. Dre » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:30 pm

unc0mm0n1 wrote:a couple hundred grand is still a couple hundred grand


and Yale is worth every penny

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:33 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:
unc0mm0n1 wrote:a couple hundred grand is still a couple hundred grand


and Yale is worth every penny


Yale isn't an option for OP as of now. Stick to the damn options at hand and quit screwing around.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby Dr. Dre » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:35 pm

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:
unc0mm0n1 wrote:a couple hundred grand is still a couple hundred grand


and Yale is worth every penny


Yale isn't an option for OP as of now. Stick to the damn options at hand and quit screwing around.


Srry Mr. rawls

Ti Malice
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:43 pm

No need to discuss Yale, because Yale isn't going to be an option. Post history indicates OP was already dinged. Back to the subject of the thread...

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UtilityMonster
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby UtilityMonster » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:51 pm

People say take Ruby, but when someone has Chi and 60k more at UVA or a similar school, they say take UVA and comment on the similar employment prospects (Chicago not worth 60k more than UVA), e.g. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=206384.

Yet few say take UVA full ride over Harvard, and almost no one chooses it (examine LSN). Indeed, a huge number of people take Harvard over Ruby (see LSN again).

I conclude that TLS has few Keynesians, and many people on HLS's WL.

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BerkeleyBear
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby BerkeleyBear » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:58 pm

UtilityMonster wrote:People say take Ruby, but when someone has Chi and 60k more at UVA or a similar school, they say take UVA and comment on the similar employment prospects (Chicago not worth 60k more than UVA), e.g. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=206384.

Yet few say take UVA full ride over Harvard, and almost no one chooses it (examine LSN). Indeed, a huge number of people take Harvard over Ruby (see LSN again).

I conclude that TLS has few Keynesians, and many people on HLS's WL.


:lol: Your comparisons are full of fail.

nebula666
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby nebula666 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:26 am

UtilityMonster wrote:People say take Ruby, but when someone has Chi and 60k more at UVA or a similar school, they say take UVA and comment on the similar employment prospects (Chicago not worth 60k more than UVA), e.g. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=206384.

Yet few say take UVA full ride over Harvard, and almost no one chooses it (examine LSN). Indeed, a huge number of people take Harvard over Ruby (see LSN again).

I conclude that TLS has few Keynesians, and many people on HLS's WL.


That is not a good comparison. Having Ruby at Chicago is completely different than paying significantly more to attend there than UVA. It is a very prestigious honor, it will open up more doors, greater access to alumni and events, etc. Any employer knows that you could have gone to Harvard if you got Ruby and I don't see how they can hold that against you. Maybe I overestimate how much of an impact this has but I believe someone with Ruby and the same GPA/softs as someone at Harvard will have the same opportunities, short of politics and academia, which most people don't want anyway.

20141023
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby 20141023 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:52 am

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Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FloridaCoastalorbust
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:13 am

There does not seem to be enough information about your career goals, aversion to debt, etc. for any of the advice in the thread or the poll to be meaningful in your decision.

AspiringAcademic
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Re: Harvard (15k) v Chicago (Ruby) v NYU (RTK)

Postby AspiringAcademic » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:11 am

kappycaft1 wrote:This has been discussed on here before, but the people who get Rubies and Hammies usually end up with good prospects after graduation because they do well in law school - not because they got these awards. Someone with a Hammy mentioned that when they told an employer about it, they were like "oh, cool." I think a lot of people tend to get causation and correlation confused when talking about these awards and getting prestigious jobs.

I'm not so sure, at least for Chicago. The faculty seem really engaged with the program, and I think that calls would be made if someone was falling through the cracks. The program is new enough that I don't know if that has ever been put to the test, though.




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