Class of 2012 Employment Data

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:32 pm

I am debating whether to even include that ridiculously unsustainable UCI number. And I'm saying this as someone with a deep attachment to UCI.

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Dmini7
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby Dmini7 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:01 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:I am debating whether to even include that ridiculously unsustainable UCI number. And I'm saying this as someone with a deep attachment to UCI.


Haha, I completely agree with you. If nothing else, it brings about an interesting topic to discuss even though it is something that has been discussed plenty of times before. Except now there are numbers for both sides to argue with :D

Revolver066
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby Revolver066 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:56 pm

Anybody up to do a Rayiner Un-employment thread type analysis? (50+firms, Fed clerkship, PI/Govt Long term full time jobs, 1/2 business jobs) viewtopic.php?f=23&t=181723

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longlivetheking
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby longlivetheking » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:55 pm

can anyone do a big picture summary? hiring improving/staying same/shittier?

SportsFan
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby SportsFan » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:31 pm

Penn's numbers are up.

https://www.law.upenn.edu/careers/emplo ... istics.php

https://www.law.upenn.edu/live/files/18 ... statistics

60.37% in firms of 251+, 10.37% A3 clerkships. 70.74% total. 77.04% if you do firms of 101+.


(someone please correct me if I did the math wrong)

Edit: And just to give some other numbers so people don't have to click, 12 in business/industry (probably good outcomes because of the JD/MBA), 6 in government, and 10 in PI. 258/270 in bar passage required jobs.

Edit 2: 9 people in law school funded jobs (8 long term, 1 short term). 3.33%.
Last edited by SportsFan on Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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longlivetheking
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby longlivetheking » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:33 pm

wow penn killed it.

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BerkeleyBear
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby BerkeleyBear » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:35 pm

longlivetheking wrote:wow penn killed it.

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Bronck
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby Bronck » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:38 pm

Very nice numbers from Penn. Interested to see how Chi and CLS perform now.

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longlivetheking
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby longlivetheking » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:39 pm

anyone know what happened with nyu?

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Bronck
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby Bronck » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:01 pm

Image

Following rayiner's lead from last year, here is the under/unemployed chart:

Image

I'll update both as new numbers for the T-14 come in

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BerkeleyBear
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby BerkeleyBear » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:06 pm

Thanks Bronk. Good stuff.

SportsFan
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby SportsFan » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:07 pm

Just looking at Penn's numbers a little more (since its more interesting than outlining :lol: ), its interesting they seem to have changed their law school funded jobs program. In 2010 and 2011, most of these jobs were short term, but now in 2012, they're all long term. I guess thats because of the ABA's change in how they count these jobs, or whatever? Still, only 9 people in these jobs in 2012, as opposed to 11 in 2011 and 13 in 2010.

table3
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby table3 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:09 pm

What does N/2 denote?

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Bronck
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby Bronck » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:09 pm

table3 wrote:What does N/2 denote?


Number of jobs divided by 2.

SportsFan
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby SportsFan » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:12 pm

Bronck wrote:
table3 wrote:What does N/2 denote?


Number of jobs divided by 2.

And just to clarify for him, its because theres no easy way of telling whether these business jobs are any good (more likely in schools with good JB/MBA programs) or are just doc review, so just assuming half of them are unfavorable outcomes is the best way to account for this.
Last edited by SportsFan on Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

table3
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby table3 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:54 pm

SportsFan wrote:
Bronck wrote:
table3 wrote:What does N/2 denote?


Number of jobs divided by 2.

And just to clarify for him, its because theres no one of telling whether these business jobs are any good (more likely in schools with good JB/MBA programs) or are just doc review, so just assuming half of them are unfavorable outcomes is the best way to account for this.


Gotcha, thanks.

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pedestrian
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby pedestrian » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:46 am

I'm curious about the rationale for counting academic jobs as underemployed.

Revolver066
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby Revolver066 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:50 am

BerkeleyBear wrote:Thanks Bronk. Good stuff.


Sweeet.

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bowser
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby bowser » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:54 am

pedestrian wrote:I'm curious about the rationale for counting academic jobs as underemployed.


Everything goes in that category which sounds "suspicious." It seems like most schools have a reasonable number in that category (~1% or less), but a few have way too many Academic jobs than you would realistically think the school could get into tenure-track positions.

Halving the Business number and counting all PI jobs as good outcomes is not perfect, either, but it's a reasonable approximation based on very little information.

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pedestrian
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby pedestrian » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:00 am

bowser wrote:
pedestrian wrote:I'm curious about the rationale for counting academic jobs as underemployed.


Everything goes in that category which sounds "suspicious." It seems like most schools have a reasonable number in that category (~1% or less), but a few have way too many Academic jobs than you would realistically think the school could get into tenure-track positions.

Halving the Business number and counting all PI jobs as good outcomes is not perfect, either, but it's a reasonable approximation based on very little information.


Ok, thank you! Poking around in the linked thread it seems to be related to the "school-funded" debate.

Revolver066
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby Revolver066 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:23 am

SportsFan wrote:
Edit: And just to give some other numbers so people don't have to click, 12 in business/industry (probably good outcomes because of the JD/MBA), 6 in government, and 10 in PI. 258/270 in bar passage required jobs.

Edit 2: 9 people in law school funded jobs (8 long term, 1 short term). 3.33%.


Yea I never really knew what to make of the business type jobs in the T14 (esp ones with good JD/MBA programs). Looking at the website, with 11/12 reporting, the 25/50/75 for their salaries are 100k/130k/140k (~145k mean. Not too shabby)

ETA: looks like the 12th person is probably in the Full time Short term employment category
ETA2: looks like 1 govt and 1 PI are long term part time.

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togepi
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby togepi » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:31 am

tag

spondee
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby spondee » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:17 am

SportsFan wrote:Penn's numbers are up.

https://www.law.upenn.edu/careers/emplo ... istics.php

https://www.law.upenn.edu/live/files/18 ... statistics

60.37% in firms of 251+, 10.37% A3 clerkships. 70.74% total. 77.04% if you do firms of 101+.


(someone please correct me if I did the math wrong)

Edit: And just to give some other numbers so people don't have to click, 12 in business/industry (probably good outcomes because of the JD/MBA), 6 in government, and 10 in PI. 258/270 in bar passage required jobs.

Edit 2: 9 people in law school funded jobs (8 long term, 1 short term). 3.33%.


2012 graduating class: 270
Employed: 265
Total for 2012 job type chart: 275

Penn's double counting somewhere.

Myself
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.

Postby Myself » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:33 am

.
Last edited by Myself on Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Data

Postby Elston Gunn » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:15 am

ajax adonis wrote:These numbers are worse than I thought.

I'm not law school advocate, but why don't you think the UCI figures are sustainable? Is there something about full tuition scholarships that boost students' employment numbers?


It's the tiny class size + incentive of the faculty to do everything possible to help out their first class.

Put it this way, do you think UCI is going to continue to nearly double Harvard's AIII clerk placement on a percentage basis?




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