John Marshall Atlanta Questions

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
T-Mike
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:59 am

John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby T-Mike » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:29 pm

Hey guys,

I've scoured the internet for quality posts about Atlanta's John Marshall Law School, yet to no avail. It seems like every forum I read reverts back to snide comments about debt and the overall stupidity of going to a law school out of the top 10. Obviously, AJMLS is not a coveted institution. However, I'm not looking for those sort of comments. I'm looking for actual insight that deals with the quality of education and the opportunities that AJMLS presents to its students.

First, I want to provide a little background on myself in order to filter some of the trolls out there that have nothing better to do than smell that sweet upper lip of theirs and bash every poster on these forums that are looking for actual advice and information...

I am presently enrolled at the University of Kentucky and will graduate in May with a BA in Economics. Being from East KY, I struggled to transition to the college environment and quite frankly didn't much care about my education until my Junior year. I have raised my GPA significantly, but will likely graduate with a 3.0 at best. My applications radiate a 2.9 instead. My LSAT is only 153, which is slightly above the national average and may carry more weight in a year when law school applications are down significantly.

My resume is not impressive, but I do believe that I am intelligent and am prepared for the rigorous curriculum of Law School. I don't find myself at a disadvantage in the classroom, just in the application process for obvious reasons. I have applied to 14 schools and AJMLS is the first that I have heard from since I began this process. Like I said, I'm aware that AJMLS is not a prestige institution, and while I'm not sure on what sort of law I want to practice, I presently have no desire to go into corporate law.

Most importantly, I'm not bound by the financial restrictions that dictates many applicant's decisions. I have received an $18,000 scholarship per year as long as I maintain a 2.5 GPA, which is around half-tuition for an out-of-state kid like myself. Of course, money is always a factor, but my recently deceased grandfather left me an education fund that will hopefully absorb most of the costs of law school. Therefore, debt is a hurdle that I need not worry about when entering the job market unless I completely fail.

In closing, I must assert that I am willing and able to move regions and am not restricted in my professional decision-making by any sort of relationship or financial burden. I want to attend the best school that I possibly can in an area of the country that has a big enough market for flexibility purposes. I do have an interest in criminal defense and real estate, but I can't elaborate further because I'm still very much in the dark when contemplating my legal career.

I have also applied to Albany, Kentucky, Louisville, Marquette, Dayton, Georgia State, Akron, Northern KY, Memphis, and some others. Some of these schools are obviously reach schools for my resume, but in a year when applications are diminishing, I'd be stupid to not at least try.

Once again, please, no trolls. I need advice. Not jokes. Thanks!

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby rad lulz » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:32 pm

(assumes that people saying that going to John Marshall is a shitty idea are trolling)

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby rad lulz » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:34 pm

29% shot at a job

It's a shitty idea

I wouldn't go even if it were free

T-Mike
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:59 am

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby T-Mike » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:35 pm

No, I'm saying that most criticism I read is based on debt, not education or networking opportunities.

buddingjd
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:31 pm

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby buddingjd » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:35 pm

T-Mike wrote:Hey guys,

I've scoured the internet for quality posts about Atlanta's John Marshall Law School, yet to no avail. It seems like every forum I read reverts back to snide comments about debt and the overall stupidity of going to a law school out of the top 10. Obviously, AJMLS is not a coveted institution. However, I'm not looking for those sort of comments. I'm looking for actual insight that deals with the quality of education and the opportunities that AJMLS presents to its students.

First, I want to provide a little background on myself in order to filter some of the trolls out there that have nothing better to do than smell that sweet upper lip of theirs and bash every poster on these forums that are looking for actual advice and information...

I am presently enrolled at the University of Kentucky and will graduate in May with a BA in Economics. Being from East KY, I struggled to transition to the college environment and quite frankly didn't much care about my education until my Junior year. I have raised my GPA significantly, but will likely graduate with a 3.0 at best. My applications radiate a 2.9 instead. My LSAT is only 153, which is slightly above the national average and may carry more weight in a year when law school applications are down significantly.

My resume is not impressive, but I do believe that I am intelligent and am prepared for the rigorous curriculum of Law School. I don't find myself at a disadvantage in the classroom, just in the application process for obvious reasons. I have applied to 14 schools and AJMLS is the first that I have heard from since I began this process. Like I said, I'm aware that AJMLS is not a prestige institution, and while I'm not sure on what sort of law I want to practice, I presently have no desire to go into corporate law.

Most importantly, I'm not bound by the financial restrictions that dictates many applicant's decisions. I have received an $18,000 scholarship per year as long as I maintain a 2.5 GPA, which is around half-tuition for an out-of-state kid like myself. Of course, money is always a factor, but my recently deceased grandfather left me an education fund that will hopefully absorb most of the costs of law school. Therefore, debt is a hurdle that I need not worry about when entering the job market unless I completely fail.

In closing, I must assert that I am willing and able to move regions and am not restricted in my professional decision-making by any sort of relationship or financial burden. I want to attend the best school that I possibly can in an area of the country that has a big enough market for flexibility purposes. I do have an interest in criminal defense and real estate, but I can't elaborate further because I'm still very much in the dark when contemplating my legal career.

I have also applied to Albany, Kentucky, Louisville, Marquette, Dayton, Georgia State, Akron, Northern KY, Memphis, and some others. Some of these schools are obviously reach schools for my resume, but in a year when applications are diminishing, I'd be stupid to not at least try.

Once again, please, no trolls. I need advice. Not jokes. Thanks!


John Marshall competes against Emory, UGA, Georgia State, Vandy, and all of the top 14 schools for Atlanta jobs. As Atlanta has a pretty small legal community for such a large city, it's one of the hardest places to get a job as a lawyer. John Marshall's placement outside of Georgia is next to nil.

Thus, only go to John Marshall if you have a legally enforceable contract guaranteeing you employment post graduation.

ETA: even then, John Marshal is probably not your best option. Get in-state tuition somewhere and save the money.
Last edited by buddingjd on Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
052220151
Posts: 2421
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:58 am

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby 052220151 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:37 pm

Retake the LSAT, you have only seen negative reviews of John Marshall because it is a shiTTTThole. At the very least go somewhere with in-state tuition and a scholly. Don't waste your inheritance. John Marshall gives you shittier odds on your investment return than playing roulette. Consider that.

T-Mike
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:59 am

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby T-Mike » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:40 pm

Thanks. I expect to get accepted by some of the other schools I applied for, I just had to ask due to the amount of propaganda they've been sending my way.

User avatar
somewhatwayward
Posts: 1446
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:10 pm

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby somewhatwayward » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:45 pm

T-Mike wrote:No, I'm saying that most criticism I read is based on debt, not education or networking opportunities.


Look at the link posted a few posts entitled '29% of graduates get legal jobs' - that is clearly about the opportunities. That is absolutely objectively terrible. A school that places 29% into legal jobs should be closed. So no it is not just the debt although the debt makes it worse. I'm sure the education itself is fine but I assume you want to get a lawyer job out of school. John Marshall is not going to get you there.

If I were you I would take the fund from your grandfather and invest it and let it grow while you go work an entry-level job somewhere for a few years and retake the LSAT. Then go to a T10 or a strong regional school w a good scholarship.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby romothesavior » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:51 pm

OP, the reason you aren't finding good things about the school is because there really isn't much nice to say about it. It is literally one of the worst law schools (maybe bottom 10 or so) in the country. It's really not about debt; it's about jobs. I wouldn't even go there if it were 100% free. Like rad said, it has truly atrocious job prospects and less than 1 in 3 JMLS-Atlanta students got full-time, permanent, JD-required jobs. They put zero students into firms of 100+. If you ever want to use that econ degree (corporate work, M&A, etc.) you will have virtually no shot from JMSL. It's a huge scam.

You may be smart, I have no idea and I don't want to disparage you personally. But all indications (GPA and LSAT) are that you're not cut out for law school. If you think this thing law school thing is the path for you, then you need to take a few years off, work, study for the LSAT for months (take a class, use the TLS guides, whatever works for you) and improve your score by 10-15 points at a minimum. The schools you are looking at, especially John Marshall, would be catastrophically terrible decisions.

Good luck.

User avatar
TheThriller
Posts: 2285
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:12 pm

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby TheThriller » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:58 pm

OP, are you a/an URM?

T-Mike
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:59 am

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby T-Mike » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:02 pm

No. I'm Caucasian. I am from rural Appalachia.

User avatar
rickgrimes69
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:56 am

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby rickgrimes69 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:40 pm

Objectively one of the worst law schools in the country. I would not attend even if it were free. The reason everyone is so negative is because the job prospects are absolutely atrocious.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... show=chars

Seriously, do not go to John Marshall.

T-Mike
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:59 am

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby T-Mike » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:18 pm

Thanks for the input guys. This is not my first choice. It's actually my last. With my credentials, I know I wont have many options, but I'm still hoping for UofL or UK.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby romothesavior » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:23 pm

T-Mike wrote:Thanks for the input guys. This is not my first choice. It's actually my last. With my credentials, I know I wont have many options, but I'm still hoping for UofL or UK.

UK for cheap would be a pretty solid option. Take a year off and retake. One year of your life is nothing in the grand scheme and the difference it would make would be truly life altering. It is hard to overstate how bad some of these schools are and how bad the market is. You should be going to a cheap solid regional, and UK is it. Retake, retake, retake. You will certainly not regret it.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:13 pm

I know you think you have valid reasons to explain away your poor numbers, but a lot of people attending John Marshall have the same or similar reasons. You can't simply assume you'll be the guy who overcomes a bad LSAT score and a spotty GPA to graduate in the top 15% of the class or whatever you need to at least be assured of a decent legal job. Until you prove it by raising your LSAT score it's nothing more than an excuse.

The other posters are right. John Marshall is a crappy law school because it is a crappy law school. There's no other way to explain those numbers. If you've been handed a special gift of thousands of dollars to attend school, do yourself a favor, invest that, and retake the LSAT.

QualityBoss
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:22 pm

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby QualityBoss » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:44 pm

I have a friend who attended Harvard law school and was part of several law school associations but yet cannot find a job. Then I have a friend who attended Southern Law Center and got a job starting at 80K. That being said, it really goes back to networking and how you perform at a school. It's some truth and ignorance when it comes to these rankings but a law degree is the same and it's what you do with it.

User avatar
Icculus
Posts: 1421
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:02 am

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby Icculus » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:54 pm

QualityBoss wrote:I have a friend who attended Harvard law school and was part of several law school associations but yet cannot find a job. Then I have a friend who attended Southern Law Center and got a job starting at 80K. That being said, it really goes back to networking and how you perform at a school. It's some truth and ignorance when it comes to these rankings but a law degree is the same and it's what you do with it.


Fixed for complete lack of coherence...and while these are nice anecdotes, numbers don't lie.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby romothesavior » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:58 pm

QualityBoss wrote:I have a friend who attended Harvard law school and was part of several law school associations but yet cannot find a job. Then I have a friend who attended Southern Law Center and got a job starting at 80K. That being said, it really goes back to networking and how you perform at a school. It's some truth and ignorance when it comes to these rankings but a law degree is the same and it's what you do with it.

There are people who go to Harvard who have less than stellar outcomes. There are people who go to John Marshall who have great careers. This proves nothing.

One school places the overwhelming majority of their class into good jobs, the other places maybe 10% into good jobs. The law degrees are the same in that they both allow someone to practice law, but they are leagues apart in terms of the opportunities they provide, and thus aren't the same or even close. If this is how you approach this huge financial and professional investment then you are doomed. Think critically and stop being so naive.

John Marshall at almost any cost is an objectively terrible investment. Period.

User avatar
Icculus
Posts: 1421
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:02 am

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby Icculus » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:59 pm

OP, check out this thread. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=208084

Ti Malice
Posts: 1955
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:55 am

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:05 pm

QualityBoss wrote:I have a friend who attended Harvard law school and was part of several law school associations but yet cannot find a job. Then I have a friend who attended Southern Law Center and got a job starting at 80K. That being said, it really goes back to networking and how you perform at a school. It's some truth and ignorance when it comes to these rankings but a law degree is the same and it's what you do with it.


LOL: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=208922&p=6721991#p6721991

User avatar
jingosaur
Posts: 2225
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:33 am

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby jingosaur » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:10 pm

QualityBoss wrote:I have a friend who attended Harvard law school and was part of several law school associations but yet cannot find a job. Then I have a friend who attended Southern Law Center and got a job starting at 80K. That being said, it really goes back to networking and how you perform at a school. It's some truth and ignorance when it comes to these rankings but a law degree is the same and it's what you do with it.


The reasoning in this argument is flawed because it:
a. Makes a general assertion from data that contains too small a sample size
b. Takes a certain outcome in one case and implies that it occurs in all cases
c. Fails to include pertinent information that would undermine the conclusion
d. Was posted by a person who is a troll or a boomer or the Dean of John Marshall
e. All of the above

I'm not an elitist by any means, but you should do yourself a favor and get your LSAT score to a point where you can at least be paying in-state tuition at a good public school. Get a job and spend a year studying and figuring out what you really want to do with your life before throwing away your grandfather's hard-earned money on such a bad investment. You wouldn't put that money on 2 red in roulette, would you? That would be a better investment than any of your current choices.

bananapeanutbutter
Posts: 351
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:12 pm

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:04 pm

goldbh7 wrote:
QualityBoss wrote:I have a friend who attended Harvard law school and was part of several law school associations but yet cannot find a job. Then I have a friend who attended Southern Law Center and got a job starting at 80K. That being said, it really goes back to networking and how you perform at a school. It's some truth and ignorance when it comes to these rankings but a law degree is the same and it's what you do with it.


The reasoning in this argument is flawed because it:
a. Makes a general assertion from data that contains too small a sample size
b. Takes a certain outcome in one case and implies that it occurs in all cases
c. Fails to include pertinent information that would undermine the conclusion
d. Was posted by a person who is a troll or a boomer or the Dean of John Marshall
e. All of the above

I'm not an elitist by any means, but you should do yourself a favor and get your LSAT score to a point where you can at least be paying in-state tuition at a good public school. Get a job and spend a year studying and figuring out what you really want to do with your life before throwing away your grandfather's hard-earned money on such a bad investment. You wouldn't put that money on 2 red in roulette, would you? That would be a better investment than any of your current choices.

You're denying the lack of logic of native English speakers who get sub-50% correct on the logical reasoning portion of the LSAT have. Your snobby logic skillz aren't going to work. You need to speak about feelings, and individual stories more to make your point. Nothing like feeling your way to victory.

User avatar
Steve2207
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:31 pm

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby Steve2207 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:43 pm

I agree with the above poster saying that the reason you haven’t heard much is because there is not much nice to say. However, I am not going to bash on you.
As for Atlanta I do not know much at all, but I DO know a VERY successful attorney that is a graduate from John Marshal – Chicago (my guess is that this type of success isn’t common). Still, she had very positive things to say about the school when I was applying last fall, but I decided against sending them an application. Incidentally, AJMLS did contact me repeatedly throughout my cycle telling me I qualified for a $30,000 scholarship, but I never followed up with them or applied there.

My question is what did Northern Kentucky offer you? If I were you I would go there over AJMLS, especially since you’re already in eastern KY. In addition, if you were fortunate enough to get into Louisville, I would go there at sticker if I were you over AJMLS and NKU.

K Rock
Posts: 200
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:11 pm

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby K Rock » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:52 pm

Steve2207 wrote:I agree with the above poster saying that the reason you haven’t heard much is because there is not much nice to say. However, I am not going to bash on you.
As for Atlanta I do not know much at all, but I DO know a VERY successful attorney that is a graduate from John Marshal – Chicago (my guess is that this type of success isn’t common). Still, she had very positive things to say about the school when I was applying last fall, but I decided against sending them an application. Incidentally, AJMLS did contact me repeatedly throughout my cycle telling me I qualified for a $30,000 scholarship, but I never followed up with them or applied there.
.


1) The two John Marshals are not related.

2) Anecdotal evidence is not helpful

User avatar
Steve2207
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:31 pm

Re: John Marshall Atlanta Questions

Postby Steve2207 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:56 pm

K Rock wrote:
Steve2207 wrote:I agree with the above poster saying that the reason you haven’t heard much is because there is not much nice to say. However, I am not going to bash on you.
As for Atlanta I do not know much at all, but I DO know a VERY successful attorney that is a graduate from John Marshal – Chicago (my guess is that this type of success isn’t common). Still, she had very positive things to say about the school when I was applying last fall, but I decided against sending them an application. Incidentally, AJMLS did contact me repeatedly throughout my cycle telling me I qualified for a $30,000 scholarship, but I never followed up with them or applied there.
.


1) The two John Marshals are not related.

2) Anecdotal evidence is not helpful


I wasn’t aware that the two schools are not related. And I know the evidence given was not very relevant, which is why I specifically included that my guess is that the success of the particular attorney I know is not very common.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: euler, Exabot [Bot] and 3 guests