IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

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Steve2207
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IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby Steve2207 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:15 pm

I know this is a little longwinded, but I felt the details where necessary. Seriously, thank you in advance to anyone that offers some advice, I am far from thin skinned, so speak your mind!
Like many right now, I have a decision to make that isn’t easy for me, and I was hoping for some advice. So here it goes.

Indiana University <Indianapolis> (at sticker) or
Southern Illinois ($24,500 no stipulation)?

I have the GI Bill, so the first year at both schools will be free for me because they are public. I hope to eventually become an associate in southern Indiana with a small firm (2-10 attorneys). I also would be open to practicing in southern Illinois for a similar firm, even though Indiana is my preference. I have absolutely zero interest in working big law, ever. The dilemma is that I know Indiana (at least within the state) has a very good reputation, and my job prospects would be higher coming out of law school. However, I feel like SIU might be better for me because of my particular interest, and I would be taking on less debt which would be easier for me to repay (especially considering I will obviously be making far less as an associate with a small firm).
Also, before I get a ton of people telling me to retake, I want to say right now that I WILL be retaking in June, and that SIU has already informed me that they will adjust my scholarship accordingly if I receive a better score, but as far as I know IU will not.
I am well aware that there is a stigma with TTT law schools, but honestly (maybe I am off here), I don’t think SIU really comes off as that bad of a school compared to the others. My perception is that it is just a smaller law school that targets students who only want to practice in that area, which is why a lot of people don’t know much about it.
So, should I go for SIU @14k a year, or IU @ 23k a year ?
Last edited by Steve2207 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby rickgrimes69 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:24 pm

IU gives you roughly a coin flip chance at scoring a job as a lawyer. What would be your total COA, and do you have ties to Indiana? If you have ties, I would only attend for no more than ~$60k (total COA). Without ties, I wouldn't go at all.

If you want to work in Indiana, don't go to SIU. 0% of C/O 2011 placed in Indiana.

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Steve2207
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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby Steve2207 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:37 pm

rickgrimes69 wrote:IU gives you roughly a coin flip chance at scoring a job as a lawyer. What would be your total COA, and do you have ties to Indiana? If you have ties, I would only attend for no more than ~$60k (total COA). Without ties, I wouldn't go at all.

If you want to work in Indiana, don't go to SIU. 0% of C/O 2011 placed in Indiana.


I know some pretty successful small firm attorneys in Indiana, and have done a little networking as well. I really don’t think any of them would be particularly concerned with where I got my JD if I took the IN bar, and IF they had room for an associate. That said, they know me, but no one has really offered me a position upon graduation. This is really just a leap of faith.

What has me considering IU so strongly is that if nothing pans out I feel fairly confident of finding a job so long as I remain dedicated to the area. As for SIU, it comes down to affordability, and the hope that something with one of the small firms I am familiar with (or one that I become familiar with in the southern Ill. area) pans out, which I think would be more likely than not, but not certain.

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kay2016
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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby kay2016 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:37 pm

You shouldn't go to Iu Indy (McKinney) at sticker...

Try to negotiate if you really wanna stay in indiana

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Steve2207
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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby Steve2207 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:56 pm

To answer the total COA question:
I would need to take out a little extra to cover living expenses, but I wouldn’t have to depend on loans entirely to survive. Ive done some calculations, and after all three years Ithink this is a fair prediction,

For IU I would be looking at 76k respectively for total cost.
For SIU I would be looking at about58k.

K Rock
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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby K Rock » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:48 am

Indiana-Indy is not "IU".

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Steve2207
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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby Steve2207 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:35 am

K Rock wrote:Indiana-Indy is not "IU".


what is it then?? I know alumni from both Bloomington and Indianapolis law schools and they all call it “IU”. Also, don’t say its technically “IUPUI” because every Hoosier I have ever met recognizes both campuses as IU.

cooldude87
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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby cooldude87 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:00 am

its a terrible time to go to law school, don't do it

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kay2016
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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby kay2016 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:25 am

Steve2207 wrote:
K Rock wrote:Indiana-Indy is not "IU".


what is it then?? I know alumni from both Bloomington and Indianapolis law schools and they all call it “IU”. Also, don’t say its technically “IUPUI” because every Hoosier I have ever met recognizes both campuses as IU.


They're saying its not "IU" because its not the one that has notoriety. Typically most people say IU-Indy or simply say McKinney vs Maurer. In Indianapolis graduates of both schools are taken seriously, mainly because Maurer is "iu" and McKinney students are in Indy and have a better chance at maintaining relationships throughout the school year.

Outside of Indiana, McKinney is NOT "IU" and people will stigmatize it with Iupui even tho it is technically the Indianapolis branch of the IU law program. They're not the same school, and despite the fact that rankings usually don't matter.. There's a huge difference.

Take a look at the IU-Indy acceptances/denials page.. Several good posts.

I'm not saying don't go there. I have several friends there who have no regrets... But they aren't going at sticker, have specific reasons for wanting to stay in Indianapolis and aren't shooting for big law per se.

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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby K Rock » Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:44 am

Steve2207 wrote:
K Rock wrote:Indiana-Indy is not "IU".


what is it then?? I know alumni from both Bloomington and Indianapolis law schools and they all call it “IU”. Also, don’t say its technically “IUPUI” because every Hoosier I have ever met recognizes both campuses as IU.


I guarantee you nobody has ever said "I went to IU law" and meant that they went to school in Indianapolis. People refer to it as IUI or McKinney. Also, Bloomington has an awesome college basketball program. Indianapolis doesn't.

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romothesavior
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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby romothesavior » Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:04 am

Retake is the right move, so I'm glad you're doing that. Be sure to check out the guides and resources in the LSAT Forum. For your goals, I think IUB at a discount is the school you'll need. SIU is a so-so tier 3 school as far as they go, but isn't worth it unless you're a native downstate Illinoisan looking to stay in Illinois who can attend for around free.

Good luck on your retake.

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danquayle
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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby danquayle » Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:56 am

K Rock wrote:
Steve2207 wrote:
K Rock wrote:Indiana-Indy is not "IU".


what is it then?? I know alumni from both Bloomington and Indianapolis law schools and they all call it “IU”. Also, don’t say its technically “IUPUI” because every Hoosier I have ever met recognizes both campuses as IU.


I guarantee you nobody has ever said "I went to IU law" and meant that they went to school in Indianapolis. People refer to it as IUI or McKinney. Also, Bloomington has an awesome college basketball program. Indianapolis doesn't.


It's IU-Indy.

But people do say all the time they went to IU and mean IU-Indy, knowing full well people will assume Bloomington. They're sneaky like that.

Also... IU-Indy for the first 25 years of its existence was in fact a branch of the IU-Bloomington program.

You should try to get into either Illinois or IUB with at least a quarter off tuition. A full ride at your local school might be worth it, but only if you have a clear clear objective that includes staying in that market and the willingness to build your own practice if need be.

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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby K Rock » Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:54 am

.
Last edited by K Rock on Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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danquayle
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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby danquayle » Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:41 pm

K Rock wrote:
danquayle wrote:Also... IU-Indy for the first 25 years of its existence was in fact a branch of the IU-Bloomington program.


Which was 150 years ago...


1968.

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Steve2207
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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby Steve2207 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:14 am

This is kinda off subject, but since this is my thread, I figured what the hell.

I just noticed SIU is NOT an unranked (TTT) law school anymore, this actually influences my current decision alot!

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... dale-03051

rad lulz
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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby rad lulz » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:17 am

Steve2207 wrote:This is kinda off subject, but since this is my thread, I figured what the hell.

I just noticed SIU is NOT an unranked (TTT) law school anymore, this actually influences my current decision alot!

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... dale-03051

Where SIU is ranked matters this much



0

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Steve2207
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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby Steve2207 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:32 am

rad lulz wrote:
Steve2207 wrote:This is kinda off subject, but since this is my thread, I figured what the hell.

I just noticed SIU is NOT an unranked (TTT) law school anymore, this actually influences my current decision alot!

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... dale-03051

Where SIU is ranked matters this much



0


I think rankings mean a lot to nearly anybody going to law school. Nonetheless, I will admit what had me thinking so heavily about IU was that I wouldn’t have the stigma of a TTT, (although as I said in an earlier post, SIU never really had the stigma like the others, in my opinion).

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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby rad lulz » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:34 am

Steve2207 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Steve2207 wrote:This is kinda off subject, but since this is my thread, I figured what the hell.

I just noticed SIU is NOT an unranked (TTT) law school anymore, this actually influences my current decision alot!

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... dale-03051

Where SIU is ranked matters this much



0


I think rankings mean a lot to nearly anybody going to law school. Nonetheless, I will admit what had me thinking so heavily about IU was that I wouldn’t have the stigma of a TTT, (although as I said in an earlier post, SIU never really had the stigma like the others, in my opinion).

The ranking of SIU doesn't matter to the people who matter (employers in southern Illinois)

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rickgrimes69
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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby rickgrimes69 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:58 pm

Steve2207 wrote:This is kinda off subject, but since this is my thread, I figured what the hell.

I just noticed SIU is NOT an unranked (TTT) law school anymore, this actually influences my current decision alot!

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... dale-03051


It really shouldn't influence your decision at all. After the ~T30, rankings pretty much stop mattering. Nobody is going to care that a TTT school moved up to TT, and neither should you. The only things you should be focusing on are location, cost, and employment stats.

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romothesavior
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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby romothesavior » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:38 am

OP, the ranking of SIU should not matter one single bit in your equation. Your last post is incredibly naive even for a 0L.

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worldtraveler
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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby worldtraveler » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:50 am

Retake and try and get a full ride to at least one. That is too much debt for either school.

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Steve2207
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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby Steve2207 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:51 am

worldtraveler wrote:Retake and try and get a full ride to at least one. That is too much debt for either school.


Just wanted to say that IU recently offered a scholarship of $22,500. In case, that changes anyone’s opinion.

That said, I think I have ALMOST decided on SIU. I plan to retake in June and hope to get a good enough bump to get a free ride. IMO, neither school is truly that bad of an option for what I want, and where I want to practice.

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dr123
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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby dr123 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:09 am

Retake and go to the real IU on scholly.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby rickgrimes69 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:19 am

Steve2207 wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:Retake and try and get a full ride to at least one. That is too much debt for either school.


Just wanted to say that IU recently offered a scholarship of $22,500. In case, that changes anyone’s opinion.

That said, I think I have ALMOST decided on SIU. I plan to retake in June and hope to get a good enough bump to get a free ride. IMO, neither school is truly that bad of an option for what I want, and where I want to practice.


You can believe whatever you want. But SIU will simply not travel back to Indiana. Sorry, but that's the truth. Have fun living in Illinois.

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Steve2207
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Re: IU (sticker) v. SIU ($$$)

Postby Steve2207 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:36 am

rickgrimes69 wrote:
Steve2207 wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:Retake and try and get a full ride to at least one. That is too much debt for either school.


Just wanted to say that IU recently offered a scholarship of $22,500. In case, that changes anyone’s opinion.

That said, I think I have ALMOST decided on SIU. I plan to retake in June and hope to get a good enough bump to get a free ride. IMO, neither school is truly that bad of an option for what I want, and where I want to practice.


You can believe whatever you want. But SIU will simply not travel back to Indiana. Sorry, but that's the truth. Have fun living in Illinois.


I disagree, there are two SIU grads that I know personally who are in private practice in my city. There is also a John Marshall grad that is VERY successful in my area. But, even if you were right, I think I would be comfortable practicing/living in IL, like I pointed out in my earlier post.




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