Best medium/small markets with no ties

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
Justin Genious
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:01 pm

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby Justin Genious » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:31 pm

I'm sick of TLS being so negative.. It's like a fucken big echo chamber.

Edit: You're saying that an unemployed poster from a t14 is not going to show any bitterness or express a more negative tone than necessary? If I were in that scenario I definitely would. If my neighbor loses his job we are in a recession; if I lose my job we are in a depression. That is how it goes and there is some ignorance if you believe otherwise.

Lord Randolph McDuff
Posts: 1587
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:37 pm

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:41 pm

romothesavior wrote:Ties are neither necessary nor sufficient, but they are a significant factor in hiring.


If this is your position on ties, I think some progress has been made. In the last year or so, threads of been filled with excrement about about how every nook of this country is parochial, insular, and "weary and/or suspicious of OTHERs." At least your current language is toned down. Moreover, I don't think enough people on this site consider the cultural differences between law schools, likely because the majority of posters on this site go to similar law schools. Given the name of the website this is to be expected. However, the differences are there, and understanding them can provide a more nuanced and accurate understanding on "ties" and on each school's employment numbers.

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby rad lulz » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:42 pm

romothesavior wrote:Is it me or is this year's 0L class particularly arrogant and know-it-all(y)? If I read one more generalized "TLS is too negative and it's a big echo chamber" post, I might lose it. Here's a thought: how about you actually point to some issues where you substantively disagree and engage with the points being made using facts instead of just decrying the culture of TLS? Oh that's right, you're a 0L, so you have no idea what things are like and have to resort to complaining about the site and attacking the motives (lol, unemployed?) of the 2Ls and 3Ls posting here.

My post above + Grimes post on the last page essentially summarizes the TLS convention wisdom on ties. Its not extreme, its not hardline, its not controversial, and it jives with what most TLSers have heard, seen, and experienced. Ties are neither necessary nor sufficient, but they are a significant factor in hiring. OH THE ECHO CHAMBER!

I'd like to echo this

BigZuck
Posts: 10853
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby BigZuck » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:43 pm

romothesavior wrote:Is it me or is this year's 0L class particularly arrogant and know-it-all(y)? If I read one more generalized "TLS is too negative and it's a big echo chamber" post, I might lose it. Here's a thought: how about you actually point to some issues where you substantively disagree and engage with the points being made using facts instead of just decrying the culture of TLS? Oh that's right, you're a 0L, so you have no idea what things are like and have to resort to complaining about the site and attacking the motives (lol, unemployed?) of the 2Ls and 3Ls posting here.

My post above + Grimes post on the last page essentially summarizes the TLS convention wisdom on ties. Its not extreme, its not hardline, its not controversial, and it jives with what most TLSers have heard, seen, and experienced. Ties are neither necessary nor sufficient, but they are a significant factor in hiring. OH THE ECHO CHAMBER!


Meh. I have only been lurking and posting for two cycles but people don't seem to be any worse this year to me. A lot of us 0Ls aren't exactly respecting our elders but I think that's just the nature of anonymous communication with strangers on the Internet. Alot of the mega posters the 0Ls bristle against (like, say, you and rad) don't exactly come across as the humblest of bros either and are very know-it-all(y) as well, albeit in a much more abrasive way. The difference, of course, is that you have more of a leg to stand on than the 0Ls. However I suspect that these 0Ls might come around to your side once they get a little more experience with all this stuff. But to say they are fundamentally different at their core than people have come before them? No, I don't think so. They are just Interneting along with everyone else. Two sides of the same coin, the circle of life, etc.

Btw that's not a knock on you or rad, I enjoy what you guys write because its both informative and entertaining.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby romothesavior » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:18 pm

I was mostly kidding in saying they're worse this year; its a lot of the same stuff every year. If anything, the 0Ls are more informed than ever.

I try hard not to be dickish unless its warranted or someone else started it. I try to be reasonable and I'm on the record as saying TLS has gotten a bit irrational in the last year or so on some issues. But when people with no clue come after the community just because they don't like what they hear, and brush us off as bitter/arrogant/elitist/whatever and pull the "echo chamber" card instead of taking up substantive positions, then yeah, its annoying.

User avatar
star fox
Posts: 13661
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:13 pm

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby star fox » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:24 pm

As a 0L, I find rad/romo and others on this site extremely useful. I'd rather hear from people who have been through the process and know what it's like for recent law grads than those that haven't. To be honest, when it's a quarter of a million dollars of non-dischargable debt staring you down, I'd rather err on the side of pessimism than just assume "well it could work out for you...."

WhatOurBodiesAreFor
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:23 pm

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby WhatOurBodiesAreFor » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:15 pm

@Romo, there really isn't that much disagreement between the clan of "dumbass 0Ls" you speak of and the 2L+s like yourself. I'm not sitting here trying to justify TT sticker or that being good looking and charming will eliminate all chance at a bad outcome. We are really making a huge deal out of these small differences.

I mean, there are threads asking whether John Marshall sticker is a good idea. Those dudes get reasoned and helpful responses. But when there is a thread asking whether Duke sticker is a good idea TLS gets irate and calls anyone trying to rationalize his/her decision to do Duke sticker stupid. If the Duke sticker person is stupid, what does that make the John Marshall sticker dude?

The TLS megaposters that dominate these threads, and thus the TLS narratives, are in some way jackass-y, that's why you have the 0Ls fighting back. The TLS community is in general much more trustworthy than the typical internet community, but, seriously, check out the Social Networking section and see how much they value each other's gotcha and douche-y comments. It makes you question the value of reading through these threads and digesting each comment.

The TLS megaposters also dominate the discussions in a real sense. Most of the posts here are either people like me or megaposters. But also in each thread of this nature there is a handful of posters, typically with a low amount of posts and who have considerable standing, who chime in who come and offer the most illuminating responses. They are almost never as negative as what the TLS megaposter community says.

This is why the 0L community is fighting back.

edited for clarity
Last edited by WhatOurBodiesAreFor on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jeffyl00b
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:10 am

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby jeffyl00b » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:16 pm

rickgrimes69 wrote:
jastrauss26 wrote:I guess that's what I expected to hear. The cities I am most interested are Nashville, Milwaukee, St. Louis, KC, and Seattle. Are these especially hard to get into with no ties? I would go to school at regional schools in the given areas, but I want at least a decent chance of landing a jd job in these areas. I don't want big law, it doesn't fit my personality really, but I want to at least have a shot at a job in these areas


Conventional wisdom says all of those markets are mega insular and suspicious of outsiders (with the possible exception of Seattle). I would think long and hard before trying to break into one of those markets without ties, and definitely don't go to schools in those markets without a full ride - it's just too much risk otherwise.


Gee, this must be why I can't find a really good steady job in any field for the past 10 years! I was born and raised in a big non-insular city that takes all you outsider folks, so I've been around the rest of the country since.
I can't catch a break!!!

On the other hand, I wonder why in that 10 years, I've never met someone native to the city I was in with them all being so insular.

jeffyl00b
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:10 am

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby jeffyl00b » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:19 pm

WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:@Romo, there really isn't that much disagreement between the clan of "dumbass 0Ls" you speak of and the 2L+s like yourself. I'm not sitting here trying to justify TT sticker or that being good looking and charming will eliminate all chance at a bad outcome. We are really making a huge deal out of these small differences.

I mean, there are threads asking whether John Marshall sticker is a good idea. Those dudes get reasoned and helpful responses. But when there is a thread asking whether Duke sticker is a good idea TLS gets irate and calls anyone trying to rationalize his/her decision to do Duke sticker stupid. If the Duke sticker person is stupid, what does that make the John Marshall sticker dude?

The TLS megaposters that dominate these threads, and thus the TLS narratives, are in some way jackass-y, that's why you have the 0Ls fighting back. Seriously, check out the Social Networking section and see how much they value each other's gotcha and douche-y comments.

The TLS megaposters also dominate the discussions in a real sense. In each thread of this nature there is a handful of posters, typically with a low amount of posts and who have considerable standing, who chime in who come and offer the most illuminating responses. They are almost never as negative as what the TLS megaposter community says.

This is why the 0L community is fighting back.


0L's or 3L's or the general public shouldn't fight back on these little kids, they should take it for how funny they all are.

If anything it's in inspiration. That there are folks who can study for the test(LSAT), do well in it, but then learn nothing in it and fail in their reasoning and debates. If they can do well, the dumbest person should as well.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby romothesavior » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:41 pm

WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:I mean, there are threads asking whether John Marshall sticker is a good idea. Those dudes get reasoned and helpful responses. But when there is a thread asking whether Duke sticker is a good idea TLS gets irate and calls anyone trying to rationalize his/her decision to do Duke sticker stupid. If the Duke sticker person is stupid, what does that make the John Marshall sticker dude?

I have not witnessed this phenomenon. In general, people get better and nicer feedback when they are open-minded and friendly, and receive the opposite treatment when they're not. Though I would admit that people are sometimes unnecessarily rude in the on-topics, I don't think it's the megaposters. Rad's first post is usually something like, "You should not attend due to high debt and poor job prospects." I usually throw out LST data and provide a writeup of my thoughts. Your anger is misdirected.

WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:The TLS megaposters that dominate these threads, and thus the TLS narratives, are in some way jackass-y, that's why you have the 0Ls fighting back. The TLS community is in general much more trustworthy than the typical internet community, but, seriously, check out the Social Networking section and see how much they value each other's gotcha and douche-y comments. It makes you question the value of reading through these threads and digesting each comment.

There's a difference between the the lounge and the on-topics. I have banned and I will continue to ban people who troll or are unnecessarily assholes in the on-topics.

WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:This is why the 0L community is fighting back.

Such a martyr. Keep fighting the good fight.

User avatar
rickgrimes69
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:56 am

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby rickgrimes69 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:02 pm

WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:The TLS megaposters also dominate the discussions in a real sense. Most of the posts here are either people like me or megaposters. But also in each thread of this nature there is a handful of posters, typically with a low amount of posts and who have considerable standing, who chime in who come and offer the most illuminating responses. They are almost never as negative as what the TLS megaposter community says.

This is why the 0L community is fighting back.


Your mistake lies in believing that 0Ls disagreeing with the "megaposters" have a legitimate opinion re employment

User avatar
rickgrimes69
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:56 am

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby rickgrimes69 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:03 pm

jeffyl00b wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:
jastrauss26 wrote:I guess that's what I expected to hear. The cities I am most interested are Nashville, Milwaukee, St. Louis, KC, and Seattle. Are these especially hard to get into with no ties? I would go to school at regional schools in the given areas, but I want at least a decent chance of landing a jd job in these areas. I don't want big law, it doesn't fit my personality really, but I want to at least have a shot at a job in these areas


Conventional wisdom says all of those markets are mega insular and suspicious of outsiders (with the possible exception of Seattle). I would think long and hard before trying to break into one of those markets without ties, and definitely don't go to schools in those markets without a full ride - it's just too much risk otherwise.


Gee, this must be why I can't find a really good steady job in any field for the past 10 years! I was born and raised in a big non-insular city that takes all you outsider folks, so I've been around the rest of the country since.
I can't catch a break!!!

On the other hand, I wonder why in that 10 years, I've never met someone native to the city I was in with them all being so insular.


I read this post three times and still cannot determine what your point is

User avatar
Justin Genious
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:01 pm

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby Justin Genious » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:22 pm

Every 1-3L that posts on TLS knows the legal market more than any 0L.

BearsGrl
Posts: 1660
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:40 pm

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby BearsGrl » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:33 pm

WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:@Romo, there really isn't that much disagreement between the clan of "dumbass 0Ls" you speak of and the 2L+s like yourself. I'm not sitting here trying to justify TT sticker or that being good looking and charming will eliminate all chance at a bad outcome. We are really making a huge deal out of these small differences.

I mean, there are threads asking whether John Marshall sticker is a good idea. Those dudes get reasoned and helpful responses. But when there is a thread asking whether Duke sticker is a good idea TLS gets irate and calls anyone trying to rationalize his/her decision to do Duke sticker stupid. If the Duke sticker person is stupid, what does that make the John Marshall sticker dude?

The TLS megaposters that dominate these threads, and thus the TLS narratives, are in some way jackass-y, that's why you have the 0Ls fighting back. The TLS community is in general much more trustworthy than the typical internet community, but, seriously, check out the Social Networking section and see how much they value each other's gotcha and douche-y comments. It makes you question the value of reading through these threads and digesting each comment.

The TLS megaposters also dominate the discussions in a real sense. Most of the posts here are either people like me or megaposters. But also in each thread of this nature there is a handful of posters, typically with a low amount of posts and who have considerable standing, who chime in who come and offer the most illuminating responses. They are almost never as negative as what the TLS megaposter community says.

This is why the 0L community is fighting back.

edited for clarity


I agree with this overall sentiment.

BearsGrl
Posts: 1660
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:40 pm

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby BearsGrl » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:36 pm

Justin Genious wrote:Every 1-3L that posts on TLS knows the legal market more than any 0L.


Not if you were a 0L who has been told by friends/legal folks that the economy was bad, but you still see law school as a viable option.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22808
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:41 pm

romothesavior wrote:
WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:I mean, there are threads asking whether John Marshall sticker is a good idea. Those dudes get reasoned and helpful responses. But when there is a thread asking whether Duke sticker is a good idea TLS gets irate and calls anyone trying to rationalize his/her decision to do Duke sticker stupid. If the Duke sticker person is stupid, what does that make the John Marshall sticker dude?

I have not witnessed this phenomenon. In general, people get better and nicer feedback when they are open-minded and friendly, and receive the opposite treatment when they're not. Though I would admit that people are sometimes unnecessarily rude in the on-topics, I don't think it's the megaposters. Rad's first post is usually something like, "You should not attend due to high debt and poor job prospects." I usually throw out LST data and provide a writeup of my thoughts. Your anger is misdirected.

I know I haven't precisely agreed with everything you've said about markets/ties ITT, but I totally agree with this.

(Not that you need my approval or anything, but thought I'd throw that out there.)

User avatar
rickgrimes69
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:56 am

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby rickgrimes69 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:44 pm

BearsGrl wrote:
Justin Genious wrote:Every 1-3L that posts on TLS knows the legal market more than any 0L.


Not if you were a 0L who has been told by friends/legal folks that the economy was bad, but you still see law school as a viable option.


"Everybody tells me the legal market is awful, but I don't believe them because"

WhatOurBodiesAreFor
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:23 pm

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby WhatOurBodiesAreFor » Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:56 am

rickgrimes69 wrote:
BearsGrl wrote:
Justin Genious wrote:Every 1-3L that posts on TLS knows the legal market more than any 0L.


Not if you were a 0L who has been told by friends/legal folks that the economy was bad, but you still see law school as a viable option.


"Everybody tells me the legal market is awful, but I don't believe them because"


yeah man; that's exactly what our reasoning is.

romothesavior wrote:
WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:I mean, there are threads asking whether John Marshall sticker is a good idea. Those dudes get reasoned and helpful responses. But when there is a thread asking whether Duke sticker is a good idea TLS gets irate and calls anyone trying to rationalize his/her decision to do Duke sticker stupid. If the Duke sticker person is stupid, what does that make the John Marshall sticker dude?

I have not witnessed this phenomenon. In general, people get better and nicer feedback when they are open-minded and friendly, and receive the opposite treatment when they're not. Though I would admit that people are sometimes unnecessarily rude in the on-topics, I don't think it's the megaposters. Rad's first post is usually something like, "You should not attend due to high debt and poor job prospects." I usually throw out LST data and provide a writeup of my thoughts. Your anger is misdirected.


I get this, and you're pretty correct here. All I am trying to say here is that TLS, instead of banging it out with a good discourse, usually (usually) resorts to something like: "Everybody tells me the legal market is awful, but I don't believe them because" when there really needs some quality discussion. In any world, Duke sticker is more rational than John Marshall. In fact, in any world, Duke sticker is at least close to a rational choice. Why must you chastise those who disagree with you? Some people do have "special snowflake syndrome", some people are incapable of taking advice, some people are underinformed, true. But it's not like everyone who disagrees with you is performing some ridiculous fallacy.



WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:
romothesavior wrote:This is why the 0L community is fighting back.

Such a martyr. Keep fighting the good fight.


This is what I mean by jackass-y. I can't do anything right with you dudes. You guys always pick out something I say and make me sound like the douche.
Last edited by WhatOurBodiesAreFor on Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
rickgrimes69
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:56 am

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby rickgrimes69 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:49 am

WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:I can't do anything right with you dudes. You guys always pick out something I say and make me sound like the douche.


Maybe its because you ignore legitimate reasoning and defend against strawmen arguments nobody made, like "In any world, Duke sticker is more rational than John Marshall." Obviously one of those options is better than the other. That doesn't mean either one is objectively a good choice.

WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:
BearsGrl wrote:
Justin Genious wrote:Every 1-3L that posts on TLS knows the legal market more than any 0L.


Not if you were a 0L who has been told by friends/legal folks that the economy was bad, but you still see law school as a viable option.


"Everybody tells me the legal market is awful, but I don't believe them because"


yeah man; that's exactly what our reasoning is.


That poast was obviously a reply to BearsGrl's nonsensical response to Justin, and not directed at 0L's on the whole. Although it probably could / should be.

WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:I get this, and you're pretty correct here. All I am trying to say here is that TLS, instead of banging it out with a good discourse, usually (usually) resorts to something like: "Everybody tells me the legal market is awful, but I don't believe them because" when there really needs some quality discussion.


First of all, BearsGrl's post did not deserve quality discussion.

Second, I actually think there has been fantastic discussion and tons of logical rationale advanced in this thread. I'm pretty sure I remember writing out a long, detailed post a page or two back explaining exactly why ties are important, and the only response I got was some idiot striking-through my entire post with no explanation. Your problem is that the logical rationale has been mostly advanced by people who disagree with you. The 0L's claiming TLS hyperbole actually don't know what they fuck they are talking about, and have produced no arguments to rebut an extremely logical position, so if it sounds like we are discounting their opinion, it's because we are.

BigZuck
Posts: 10853
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby BigZuck » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:11 am

Don't get me wrong, I think the experienced posters are a great resource. I thought it was awesome that Romo, rad, and Rick all commented on my own thread to help me choose a law school. I just feel like a lot of the time some posters' motivation stems more from wanting to be combative and tell the noobs how noobish they are rather than simply help other people and that really hurts their message, the culture of TLS, and the discourse in general.

However, this is no different than any other message board I have been a part of.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18406
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby bk1 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:32 am

WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:In fact, in any world, Duke sticker is at least close to a rational choice.

See, this is the problem. It's not entirely clear that Duke at sticker is close to a rational choice (and I say this as someone who is paying sticker for a T14). Most people have no idea and simply cannot fathom what 250k, heck closer to 300k debt, is actually like. A significant portion of Duke grads will be debtpwned for the next 20 years, only able to finally escape it because of IBR. Even the ones who do "win" end up at a job that is often reportedly miserable and must work a significant number of years there to pay down their debt. Those people are then at the mercy of the market in the sense that if they do get shown the door after a few years, they will still have serious debt without a high paying job to help get rid of it. This is on top of the fact that the average person leaves biglaw after 3 years at which time most people who have taken out 250-300k will likely have at least 150k debt left, if not more.

Duke at sticker might be a rational choice, but arguing that is a fairly uphill climb and is not in any sense "close."

WhatOurBodiesAreFor
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:23 pm

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby WhatOurBodiesAreFor » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:38 am

@Grimes:

Dude! I was using the Duke/John Marshall thing to show that you guys are more douchy to Duke sticker dudes than JM sticker dudes. Thats it. If you think I was straw man-ing you need to learn how to read. This epitomizes my last comment in my previous post.

on the same note, keep in mind that, while calling out 0Ls on their noobness is making a legit point, it actually doesn't do anything to the noob's argument. The "tell me more, 0L" stuff has to stop and be replaced by reasoned discussion.

And man I hear you. Of course you guys have made great points. And even before we get to the gotcha comment and bickering stage there are great points on both sides. Almost always. It's just when a dude is going against TLS, TLS begins to chastise the dude, making fun of him, striking through everhting he says and completely obliterates his cred for lurkers. This is awful.

I had to rehash this as I always do, but, for example, there isnt an absolute answer in the t10 sticker debate like there is in the TTT sticker debate. When I say Im going to go to Mich because Im ok with the gamble, I want to have the opportunites that will come from Mich, and I love the institution, you guys annhilate me. I do know what I' getting into, I do. And i dont think im a special snowflake. But I still feel its right for ME. Just because I do doesnt mean Im ignoring your points or committing a fallacy. There are grey areas in certain issues, some of TLS just doesnt seem to allow for it

(sorry for grammar and stuff - on phone)

WhatOurBodiesAreFor
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:23 pm

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby WhatOurBodiesAreFor » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:44 am

bk1 wrote:
WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:In fact, in any world, Duke sticker is at least close to a rational choice.

See, this is the problem. It's not entirely clear that Duke at sticker is close to a rational choice (and I say this as someone who is paying sticker for a T14). Most people have no idea and simply cannot fathom what 250k, heck closer to 300k debt, is actually like. A significant portion of Duke grads will be debtpwned for the next 20 years, only able to finally escape it because of IBR. Even the ones who do "win" end up at a job that is often reportedly miserable and must work a significant number of years there to pay down their debt. Those people are then at the mercy of the market in the sense that if they do get shown the door after a few years, they will still have serious debt without a high paying job to help get rid of it. This is on top of the fact that the average person leaves biglaw after 3 years at which time most people who have taken out 250-300k will likely have at least 150k debt left, if not more.

Duke at sticker might be a rational choice, but arguing that is a fairly uphill climb and is not in any sense "close."



Man, I said it's AT LEAST CLOSE to a rational choice. It's one that some will agree with and some won't. If you won't me to put it like that, OK. I just wanted to say (and I really think I did well the first time) that theres debate over Duke sticker and not really Cooley sticker. Ugh

Also BK, in regards to this debt thing. A smart big law grad (35%+ at T14) will have paid significantly more than minimum payments during his biglaw stint. You said earlier that after two years of Biglaw that a dude would still be 200K in chance. Not a smart one. This is a sacrifice you have to make if you pay sticker and get biglaw.
Last edited by WhatOurBodiesAreFor on Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby rad lulz » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:47 am

WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:The "tell me more, 0L" stuff has to stop and be replaced by reasoned discussion.

When 0Ls ignore reasoned 2L/3L advice and tell us how to get legal jobs, it doesn't deserve anything more than "tell me more, 0L."

WhatOurBodiesAreFor
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:23 pm

Re: Best medium/small markets with no ties

Postby WhatOurBodiesAreFor » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:50 am

rad lulz wrote:
WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:The "tell me more, 0L" stuff has to stop and be replaced by reasoned discussion.

When 0Ls ignore reasoned 2L/3L advice and tell us how to get legal jobs, it doesn't deserve anything more than "tell me more, 0L."


You ignore me by not speaking to anything I say, you think I ignore you because I dont agree with you.

Theres a difference




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest