Santa Clara University v University of San Diego Fall13

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thuyn011
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Santa Clara University v University of San Diego Fall13

Postby thuyn011 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:44 pm

Admitted to Santa Clara University, University of San Diego, Chapman, University of the Pacific and trying to make a decision. Scoured the forums hoping to gain some incite but nothing seems to sway me. I've narrowed it down to Santa Clara University and the University of San Diego. Unfortunately I haven't received money from either and just recently updated my FAFSA to include USD. Paying full for both is... pretty daunting. The current 2014 rankings have SCU at 96 and SD at 68. If I attend either, I'll probably be commuting from home or a family members home. I have no issue with working in SD or SC, because I grew up in both cities. I had an LSAT of 155 gpa of 3.3. Any tips or advice regarding a decision or means of paying for school would be great! Anyone else making a similar decision?!

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Nova
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Re: Santa Clara University v University of San Diego Fall13

Postby Nova » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:21 pm

Retake or dont go.

Its not worth it.

At SCU and USD, LESS THAN HALF of the class end up with real lawyer jobs. Most dont pay well enough to pay off sticker debt.

SCU wrote:•42.9% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs. This figure includes no school-funded jobs.
•60.1% graduates were employed in long-term jobs.
•60.1% graduates were employed in full-time jobs.


http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=santaclara

USD wrote:•46.9% of graduates were employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs.
•70.8% graduates were employed in long-term jobs.
•64.2% graduates were employed in full-time jobs.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=sandiego

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fashiongirl
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Re: Santa Clara University v University of San Diego Fall13

Postby fashiongirl » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:25 am

Currently a 1L at SCU. Depends on how hard you're willing to work/network. If you want to get into IP, go to SCU. We're #3 in the nation, and we have a ton of the tech companies in our backyard. Friends have gotten interviews/jobs at Facebook, Google, HP, Twitter, EA, Ebay, USPTO, Sony, DA's office, SC Superior Court, etc. Some friends have summer jobs lined up in LA and Washington DC. SCU is known for their reputation with a lot of alumni in the bay area, it's honestly up to where you'd ultimately like to practice and what type of law you want to get into. I'm not knocking down on USD though, if you want to work/live there in the future, it's a great school (your competition would be Thomas Jefferson and Cal Western, maybe Irvine/Chapman and possibly UCLA/USC). I'm sure SD employers would favor USD grads. I actually wanted to go to USD but didn't get in and wanted to start right away since I already took a few years off. I'd recommend retaking the LSAT to get scholarship money, figure out where you want to live/practice in the future, what type of law you're leaning towards, and if you can, talking to people in the legal field in both cities.

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bk1
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Re: Santa Clara University v University of San Diego Fall13

Postby bk1 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:26 am

Moved to appropriate forum.

K Rock
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Re: Santa Clara University v University of San Diego Fall13

Postby K Rock » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:54 am

Nova wrote:At SCU and USD, LESS THAN HALF of the class end up with real lawyer jobs. Most dont pay well enough to pay off sticker debt.

Ti Malice
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Re: Santa Clara University v University of San Diego Fall13

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:10 am

fashiongirl wrote:Currently a 1L at SCU. Depends on how hard you're willing to work/network. If you want to get into IP, go to SCU. We're #3 in the nation


USNWR specialty rankings mean absolutely nothing. Literally dozens of law schools will place better in IP than SCU.

OP, you need to retake. Attending either of these schools would be a terrible decision.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Santa Clara University v University of San Diego Fall13

Postby somewhatwayward » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:17 pm

thuyn011, please listen to the statistics (less than half get legal jobs) rather than the individual stories like this (I bolded the part of this post that is definitely correct, though):

fashiongirl wrote:Currently a 1L at SCU. Depends on how hard you're willing to work/network. If you want to get into IP, go to SCU. We're #3 in the nation, and we have a ton of the tech companies in our backyard. Friends have gotten interviews/jobs at Facebook, Google, HP, Twitter, EA, Ebay, USPTO, Sony, DA's office, SC Superior Court, etc. Some friends have summer jobs lined up in LA and Washington DC. SCU is known for their reputation with a lot of alumni in the bay area, it's honestly up to where you'd ultimately like to practice and what type of law you want to get into...I'd recommend retaking the LSAT to get scholarship money, figure out where you want to live/practice in the future


SCU and USD might be okay choices if you were taking on little or no debt (including debt for living expenses). But you are talking about taking on 200K or so in debt for schools that place less than half of their grads into legal jobs, and, of that ~40% who do get legal jobs, the majority of the jobs pay much less than necessary to pay down six-figure debt. More than half of entry-level legal jobs pay 40K-65K a year. At schools like SCU and USD, the likelihood of getting a job in this salary range is even higher because the high-paying jobs are mostly gobbled up by students at top schools. For example, at SCU, about 85% of the class makes less than 63K/year (for many of those in that 85%, it is 0K a year bc they have no job). At USD, ~70% of the class makes less than 60K (again with many in that group making no money).

Only 18.9% of SCU grads and 37.7% of USD grads even reported a salary. At many schools nearly 100% of grads report a salary. Why do you think SCU and USD grads fail to do so in such large numbers? For starters, no one wants to report that they are making $0 a year. It is embarrassing. Likewise no one wants to say they are making $15/hour as a barista. The high salaries are typically always reported because they are a matter of public record and it is easy for a school to find a graduate working in a big firm online. It is not easy to find the barista online. The fact that very few grads report salaries is a very bad sign.

But really the stat that less than half get legal jobs from these schools is all you need to know. I assume you are going to law school because you would like to work in the legal field, correct? These schools give you less than a coin's flip chance of doing that. What would your plan be if you took out 150K-200K to attend one of these schools and then you did not get a job?

You may be wondering what you should do then. I would recommend studying like crazy for the LSAT (browse our LSAT forum for intensive study plans) and trying to raise your score substantially such that you can obtain admission to an elite school that places well in CA or a big (full-ride or near-full-ride) scholarship to a regional CA school. It may be an uphill battle because CA schools like high GPAs and don't seem to like splitters (people with low GPAs and high LSAT scores, a category you will hopefully fall into after you retake). The best plan would be to retake and reapply next cycle. But you could put a seat deposit down at one of these schools and then sign up to retake in June and, if you raise your score, go to school you deposited at and ask them for a scholarship. But if you retake in June and don't raise your score or if the school does not give you a very large scholarship, you should not go. Do not go to SCU or USD if you have to take out debt to do so. Period.

BTW, many of these schools place stipulations on scholarships (eg, you must be in the top 30% of your class in law school to keep the scholarship). Ideally you negotiate with the school to have these removed, but if they won't budge, it is crucial that your plan be that if you fail to meet the stipulation, you drop out. Good luck!

BigZuck
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Re: Santa Clara University v University of San Diego Fall13

Postby BigZuck » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:25 pm

Thuy, I know that what fashiongirl says sounds good because she actually goes to SCU and affirms what you want to believe but what she is saying is dangerous at best and actually quite irresponsible. It flies in the face of facts and reality.

Listen to somewhatwayward, he gave you excellent advice. Unfortunately trying to be a lawyer in CA is tough because the job market there is tough and oversaturated with new law school grads and most CA schools care so much about high GPAs that it is very tough for most people to get a scholarship out of them that makes it worthwhile to attend.

If I were you and I had that GPA and I wanted to work in CA above all other places then I would keep taking the LSAT until I scored high enough to be accepted to a top school that is ok with lower GPAs like UVA or Northwestern. If you score high enough UCLA or USC might accept you but might not offer enough to make attending be a worthwhile gamble. Berkeley and Stanford won't accept that GPA. And beyond those 4 schools I don't know that any schools in CA are justifiable considering less than half of their grads become lawyers.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Santa Clara University v University of San Diego Fall13

Postby rickgrimes69 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:00 pm

Nova wrote:Retake or dont go.

Its not worth it.

At SCU and USD, LESS THAN HALF of the class end up with real lawyer jobs. Most dont pay well enough to pay off sticker debt.


This is the only correct answer.

PRgradBYU
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Re: Santa Clara University v University of San Diego Fall13

Postby PRgradBYU » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:20 pm

rickgrimes69 wrote:
Nova wrote:Retake or dont go.

Its not worth it.

At SCU and USD, LESS THAN HALF of the class end up with real lawyer jobs. Most dont pay well enough to pay off sticker debt.


This is the only correct answer.


Don't let your future well-being be determined by a coin flip, OP. You can do better than these schools (and if you can't, you should not be going to law school).

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shifty_eyed
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Re: Santa Clara University v University of San Diego Fall13

Postby shifty_eyed » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:31 pm

BigZuck wrote:Thuy, I know that what fashiongirl says sounds good because she actually goes to SCU and affirms what you want to believe but what she is saying is dangerous at best and actually quite irresponsible. It flies in the face of facts and reality.

Listen to somewhatwayward, he gave you excellent advice. Unfortunately trying to be a lawyer in CA is tough because the job market there is tough and oversaturated with new law school grads and most CA schools care so much about high GPAs that it is very tough for most people to get a scholarship out of them that makes it worthwhile to attend.

If I were you and I had that GPA and I wanted to work in CA above all other places then I would keep taking the LSAT until I scored high enough to be accepted to a top school that is ok with lower GPAs like UVA or Northwestern. If you score high enough UCLA or USC might accept you but might not offer enough to make attending be a worthwhile gamble. Berkeley and Stanford won't accept that GPA. And beyond those 4 schools I don't know that any schools in CA are justifiable considering less than half of their grads become lawyers.

USC and UCLA both seem to be throwing MUCH more money at splitters this cycle, when previously they were more GPA whorish.

But regardless, the OP shouldn't go to law school with her current options. If you are IP-eligible, why not look for a job in the tech field?

timbs4339
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Re: Santa Clara University v University of San Diego Fall13

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:02 am

OP: The SCU poster above is wrong about your IP chances unless you have a STEM degree- preferably a STEM advanced degree.

froglee
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Re: Santa Clara University v University of San Diego Fall13

Postby froglee » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:15 pm

fashiongirl wrote:Currently a 1L at SCU. Depends on how hard you're willing to work/network. If you want to get into IP, go to SCU. We're #3 in the nation, and we have a ton of the tech companies in our backyard. Friends have gotten interviews/jobs at Facebook, Google, HP, Twitter, EA, Ebay, USPTO, Sony, DA's office, SC Superior Court, etc. Some friends have summer jobs lined up in LA and Washington DC. SCU is known for their reputation with a lot of alumni in the bay area, it's honestly up to where you'd ultimately like to practice and what type of law you want to get into. I'm not knocking down on USD though, if you want to work/live there in the future, it's a great school (your competition would be Thomas Jefferson and Cal Western, maybe Irvine/Chapman and possibly UCLA/USC). I'm sure SD employers would favor USD grads. I actually wanted to go to USD but didn't get in and wanted to start right away since I already took a few years off. I'd recommend retaking the LSAT to get scholarship money, figure out where you want to live/practice in the future, what type of law you're leaning towards, and if you can, talking to people in the legal field in both cities.



Lady, one year from now, you will be crying about how naive are when you wrote this.

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romothesavior
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Re: Santa Clara University v University of San Diego Fall13

Postby romothesavior » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:00 pm

None of the above. All are poor options for your goals. Retake or don't go.




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