Before You Post

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
miller7353
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:23 am

Re: Before You Post

Postby miller7353 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:47 pm

rad lulz wrote:
miller7353 wrote:I apologize for my ignorance. Sincerely. That's kind of why I'm on this site, because I have no idea what I'm doing and need some guidance. I don't want to make a stupid mistake choosing a school and paying too much for nothing, but I also want a place that's going to give me what I want. Do you have any constructive suggestions?

For that kind of work? Go to Yale or Harvard or Sanford after working for a few years in the field before law school. Not joking.


Ah. That's what I thought, but didn't really want to hear. What do you (or anyone else) think about transferring? If I were to take my first year at one of these schools and then transfer to a T14 school?

I have to start school now for several reasons and I'm looking for my best option from what I have....

User avatar
Nova
Posts: 9116
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:55 pm

Re: Before You Post

Postby Nova » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:50 pm

9 times out of 10 you wont make the grades to transfer.

To transfer into the T14 you need:
-top 10-15% at T1, top 5-10% for CCN
-top 5-10% at a T2, top 5% for CCN
-top 1-2% at a T3/T4
-Other notes: Depending on how far up you want to transfer, you may even succeed if you are ranked top 20-30%. For example, if you are transferring up like 10-15 spots, top 20-30% maybe enough (like a lateral transfer). Also, people in the T3/T4 generally only have a shot at transfer friendly schools in the T14.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=82937

cooldude87
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:51 pm

Re: Before You Post

Postby cooldude87 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:46 pm

your not gonna transfer

User avatar
dr123
Posts: 3503
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:38 am

Re: Before You Post

Postby dr123 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:49 pm

brb, going to Cooley on a full-ride

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: Before You Post

Postby romothesavior » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:53 pm

You need to be realistic about 1) your likely grade prospects, 2) your job prospects from these schools, and 3) your debt situation. Brooklyn would be well over 100k for the degree and is out. Rutgers and SH sound financially feasible if you can commute.

So on to grade prospects. Law school is a collection of similarly intelligent and hard working people, so odds are if you work hard and are reasonably smart, you'll end up median or just above it. You cannot assume you'll do well and should therefore plan for the average outcome, and be prepared for the worst. Going to law school planning to transfer is a terrible idea.

What are the average students doing at these schools? Not much. Go check out Law School Transparency and you'll see that neither one is great if your goal is to practice law in any prestigious or high paying field. There's a pretty decent chance you won't even get a lawyer job. And international/human rights law? LOL. You could be number one in your class and it wouldn't happen. Those are the most competitive jobs on the planet. I go to a T20 that "specializes" in international law with a big human rights focus, and I don't know a single native American going to a job overseas after graduation. It ain't gonna happen.

So retake, or live at home an do Rutgers while gunning for a 40-50k job in Jersey.

cinnamonchurros
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:43 pm

Re: Before You Post

Postby cinnamonchurros » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:56 pm

cooldude87 wrote:If you have a full ride to a school that places more than 50% of its grads in Bar Passage Required jobs, go ahead

If you're paying sticker and the school is called Harvard, Yale, or Stanford, go ahead

If you have more than 50% of the cost covered though scholarships and the school is a T14, go ahead

If its anything else, don't go



This is way too general. It covers a lot of situations, but definitely not all.

User avatar
Varys
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:28 am

Re: Before You Post

Postby Varys » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:07 pm

Wait, I got a full ride scholarship to Devry School of Law & Cooking. You're telling me I should turn down this once in a lifetime opportunity?

I say thee nay!

User avatar
Robespierre
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:02 pm

Re: Before You Post

Postby Robespierre » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:18 pm

cooldude87 wrote:If you have a full ride to a school that places more than 50% of its grads in Bar Passage Required jobs, go ahead

If you're paying sticker and the school is called Harvard, Yale, or Stanford, go ahead

If you have more than 50% of the cost covered though scholarships and the school is a T14, go ahead

If its anything else, don't go


So don't go to Columbia with 40% of the cost covered through scholarship? Disagree.

If Fordham gives you a 20K/yr scholly and you can commute from your parents' place, don't go? Disagree.

Don't go to U of Montana if you want to work in Montana and qualify for the in-state tuition? Disagree.

The post is too general. People have all sorts of situations.

iteachtenthgrade
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:42 pm

Re: Before You Post

Postby iteachtenthgrade » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:30 pm

Robespierre wrote:
cooldude87 wrote:If you have a full ride to a school that places more than 50% of its grads in Bar Passage Required jobs, go ahead

If you're paying sticker and the school is called Harvard, Yale, or Stanford, go ahead

If you have more than 50% of the cost covered though scholarships and the school is a T14, go ahead

If its anything else, don't go


So don't go to Columbia with 40% of the cost covered through scholarship? Disagree.

If Fordham gives you a 20K/yr scholly and you can commute from your parents' place, don't go? Disagree.

Don't go to U of Montana if you want to work in Montana and qualify for the in-state tuition? Disagree.

The post is too general. People have all sorts of situations.


Though I agree to a certain extent, I like the OP's sentiment - it was intended to be a rule of thumb.

whereskyle
Posts: 713
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:37 am

Re: Before You Post

Postby whereskyle » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:36 pm

Nova wrote:
elterrible78 wrote:there is no reason to NOT retake a 161.

dirtrida2 wrote: Don't waste that 3.95 gpa - retake.


yup, retaking a 170+ carries an actual risk. Just study logic games for the next two months and retake.

User avatar
eav1277
Posts: 375
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:58 am

Re: Before You Post

Postby eav1277 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:12 pm

The thread started off promising. Good advice

dixiecupdrinking
Posts: 3139
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:39 pm

Re: Before You Post

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:15 pm

cinnamonchurros wrote:
cooldude87 wrote:If you have a full ride to a school that places more than 50% of its grads in Bar Passage Required jobs, go ahead

If you're paying sticker and the school is called Harvard, Yale, or Stanford, go ahead

If you have more than 50% of the cost covered though scholarships and the school is a T14, go ahead

If its anything else, don't go



This is way too general. It covers a lot of situations, but definitely not all.

I think the only real problem is that T10 schools are worth it at a lot less than 50% scholarship, depending on the person. Otherwise, probably accurate.

User avatar
rickgrimes69
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:56 am

Re: Before You Post

Postby rickgrimes69 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:16 pm

miller7353 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
miller7353 wrote:I apologize for my ignorance. Sincerely. That's kind of why I'm on this site, because I have no idea what I'm doing and need some guidance. I don't want to make a stupid mistake choosing a school and paying too much for nothing, but I also want a place that's going to give me what I want. Do you have any constructive suggestions?

For that kind of work? Go to Yale or Harvard or Sanford after working for a few years in the field before law school. Not joking.


Ah. That's what I thought, but didn't really want to hear. What do you (or anyone else) think about transferring? If I were to take my first year at one of these schools and then transfer to a T14 school?

I have to start school now for several reasons and I'm looking for my best option from what I have....


I thought you were legit at first but nope definitely a flame

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: Before You Post

Postby romothesavior » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:17 pm

I see what cooldude is trying to do but I don't really think this checklist is very helpful. There are just too many variables at play to break it down into something so simple, and I really don't think all non-T14s are full ride or bust. I also think there are some schools that are truly never worth attending, even for free.

Perhaps the biggest thing this checklist ignores completely is geography. If you can't get into a top school, you should go to one of the really strong quasi-national or regional schools at a reasonable cost. For example, a kid from Columbus with strong connections is probably making an okay choice going to tOSU and dropping 25k per year. If I'm him, I'd much rather 75k-100k on tOSU than go to some random ass place across the country on a full ride. Keep in mind that a full ride still means 15-20k per year in COL, fees, books, and (sometimes) tuition increases.

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: Before You Post

Postby rad lulz » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:09 pm

romothesavior wrote:I see what cooldude is trying to do but I don't really think this checklist is very helpful. There are just too many variables at play to break it down into something so simple, and I really don't think all non-T14s are full ride or bust. I also think there are some schools that are truly never worth attending, even for free.

Perhaps the biggest thing this checklist ignores completely is geography. If you can't get into a top school, you should go to one of the really strong quasi-national or regional schools at a reasonable cost. For example, a kid from Columbus with strong connections is probably making an okay choice going to tOSU and dropping 25k per year. If I'm him, I'd much rather 75k-100k on tOSU than go to some random ass place across the country on a full ride. Keep in mind that a full ride still means 15-20k per year in COL, fees, books, and (sometimes) tuition increases.

You've gone soft bro. I'd never drop $100k on tOSU (68% LST score, 18.3% large firm + fed clerkship).

User avatar
sinfiery
Posts: 3308
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:55 am

Re: Before You Post

Postby sinfiery » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:10 pm

UT in-state is like 140k COA at sticker. Would absolutely take that risk.

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: Before You Post

Postby rad lulz » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:14 pm

sinfiery wrote:UT in-state is like 140k COA at sticker. Would absolutely take that risk.

It's more like $170k with tuition increases and interest.

30% large firm + federal clerkship rate.

No way, unless you'd consider dropping out if you miss biglawl.

User avatar
sinfiery
Posts: 3308
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:55 am

Re: Before You Post

Postby sinfiery » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:19 pm

Considering the alternative is probably selling life insurance policies for some shit tier company for 25-40k for the foreseeable future, I would.

Might consider dropping out if near bottom of the class tho

User avatar
hephaestus
Posts: 2385
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:21 pm

Re: Before You Post

Postby hephaestus » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:22 pm

rad lulz wrote:
sinfiery wrote:UT in-state is like 140k COA at sticker. Would absolutely take that risk.

It's more like $170k with tuition increases and interest.

30% large firm + federal clerkship rate.

No way, unless you'd consider dropping out if you miss biglawl.

I wouldn't do 170 for Texas ever. Not for a worse than coin flip chance of a good outcome.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: Before You Post

Postby romothesavior » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:36 pm

rad lulz wrote:
romothesavior wrote:I see what cooldude is trying to do but I don't really think this checklist is very helpful. There are just too many variables at play to break it down into something so simple, and I really don't think all non-T14s are full ride or bust. I also think there are some schools that are truly never worth attending, even for free.

Perhaps the biggest thing this checklist ignores completely is geography. If you can't get into a top school, you should go to one of the really strong quasi-national or regional schools at a reasonable cost. For example, a kid from Columbus with strong connections is probably making an okay choice going to tOSU and dropping 25k per year. If I'm him, I'd much rather 75k-100k on tOSU than go to some random ass place across the country on a full ride. Keep in mind that a full ride still means 15-20k per year in COL, fees, books, and (sometimes) tuition increases.

You've gone soft bro. I'd never drop $100k on tOSU (68% LST score, 18.3% large firm + fed clerkship).

I haven't gone soft, I think you've just gone off the deep end. If anything, I'm even more debt-averse than before. I probably wouldn't pay sticker anywhere anymore.

For someone with strong ties, the local flagship T1 school is usually not a bad bet with a big scholarship. 100k debt is probably on the extreme high end of what I'd find acceptable for a school like tOSU (which was just an example), but 75k-100k debt is really not awful with IBR, and doesn't take biglaw to pay it off in a reasonable amount of time.

User avatar
dr123
Posts: 3503
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:38 am

Re: Before You Post

Postby dr123 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:53 pm

sinfiery wrote:Considering the alternative is probably selling life insurance policies for some shit tier company for 25-40k for the foreseeable future, I would.

Might consider dropping out if near bottom of the class tho


That's the only alternative to lawl school? LOL

User avatar
rickgrimes69
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:56 am

Re: Before You Post

Postby rickgrimes69 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:28 pm

rad lulz wrote:
sinfiery wrote:UT in-state is like 140k COA at sticker. Would absolutely take that risk.

It's more like $170k with tuition increases and interest.

30% large firm + federal clerkship rate.

No way, unless you'd consider dropping out if you miss biglawl.


This. Texas at sticker, even in-state with ties, is not nearly worth the cost.

User avatar
sinfiery
Posts: 3308
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:55 am

Re: Before You Post

Postby sinfiery » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:34 pm

I did a whole analysis on this but basically, if going to UT will add $8k to my income on average over 40 years, it is a worthwhile investment. If not, it isn't.

These questions are largely reliant upon opportunity cost which is why I find these all encompassing responses silly in many cases

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: Before You Post

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:40 pm

sinfiery wrote:I did a whole analysis on this but basically, if going to UT will add $8k to my income on average over 40 years, it is a worthwhile investment. If not, it isn't.

These questions are largely reliant upon opportunity cost which is why I find these all encompassing responses silly in many cases


I mean some people don't want to spend their youth working biglaw and paying down huge chunks of debt so to turn a small profit when they are 50. Numbers don't tell the whole story.

User avatar
hephaestus
Posts: 2385
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:21 pm

Re: Before You Post

Postby hephaestus » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:42 pm

sinfiery wrote:I did a whole analysis on this but basically, if going to UT will add $8k to my income on average over 40 years, it is a worthwhile investment. If not, it isn't.

These questions are largely reliant upon opportunity cost which is why I find these all encompassing responses silly in many cases

What is this calculation based on?




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests