Before You Post

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
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Ben Franklin
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Re: Before You Post

Postby Ben Franklin » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:27 am

RELIC wrote:Fordham at sticker is bad idea.


Well any school at sticker is a bad idea. But if you have to pick a school at sticker (which is a great deal of applicants), you should pick one that keeps your total debt under $100k, preferably under $80k, IMO.

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hephaestus
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Re: Before You Post

Postby hephaestus » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:29 am

Ben Franklin wrote:But they shouldn't be told that they shouldn't go to law school because they are considering a lower ranked law school.

There is a cavernous difference between:
1. Should I go to Wisconsin when I live in the state/have almost a full ride and want to be a PD?
2. Should I go to Brooklyn at sticker to get biglaw?
If you understand what I am getting at, regional schools are different. Recommendations vary widely by the health of the market OP desires and the OP's goals. There are many, many situations where a regional school with $$$ is a better choice than a T14 at sticker.

If (chance of desired outcome) * (average payoff) > cost,* you should go to lawschool. TLS is about helping people make smart decisions by evaluating those factors.

Edit: *This isnt a scientific equation. Im no learned hand.
Last edited by hephaestus on Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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franklyscarlet
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Re: Before You Post

Postby franklyscarlet » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:29 am

Ben Franklin wrote:
RELIC wrote:Fordham at sticker is bad idea.


Well any school at sticker is a bad idea. But if you have to pick a school at sticker (which is a great deal of applicants), you should pick one that keeps your total debt under $100k, preferably under $80k, IMO.


I'm assuming you're an 0L? Sticker means full tuition price. you realize that law schools don't get progressively cheaper as they get lower ranked, right? There are a few cheaper exceptions, but for the most part it's the same. Cooley will cost you roughly the same as a school that can actually get you a job.

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buns
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Re: Before You Post

Postby buns » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:30 am

"The greater fool is someone with the perfect blend of self delusion and ego to think that he can succeed where others have failed." -- Sloan Sabbith

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Ben Franklin
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Re: Before You Post

Postby Ben Franklin » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:31 am

franklyscarlet wrote:oh sweetie. "I've met lawyers" is not helping your case.


I never said "I've met lawyers". Read closer, sweetie. But what I did mention does make a case when being accused of speculating, as though I'm unaware of the low chance of finding a job. I've gained insight from people who have been there, done that. And I've gained insight from the readily available data out there, sweetie. And I know enough to know that it is shameful to encourage people considering a lower ranked law school to not go, sweetie. (Not saying you Romo!)

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Ben Franklin
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Re: Before You Post

Postby Ben Franklin » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:32 am

franklyscarlet wrote:
Ben Franklin wrote:
RELIC wrote:Fordham at sticker is bad idea.


Well any school at sticker is a bad idea. But if you have to pick a school at sticker (which is a great deal of applicants), you should pick one that keeps your total debt under $100k, preferably under $80k, IMO.


I'm assuming you're an 0L? Sticker means full tuition price. you realize that law schools don't get progressively cheaper as they get lower ranked, right? There are a few cheaper exceptions, but for the most part it's the same. Cooley will cost you roughly the same as a school that can actually get you a job.


I know what sticker is, sweetie. Again, read closer. A great deal of applicants will be paying sticker for whatever school they choose.

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sublime
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Re: Before You Post

Postby sublime » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:34 am

..

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franklyscarlet
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Re: Before You Post

Postby franklyscarlet » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:35 am

Ben Franklin wrote:
franklyscarlet wrote:
Ben Franklin wrote:
RELIC wrote:Fordham at sticker is bad idea.


Well any school at sticker is a bad idea. But if you have to pick a school at sticker (which is a great deal of applicants), you should pick one that keeps your total debt under $100k, preferably under $80k, IMO.


I'm assuming you're an 0L? Sticker means full tuition price. you realize that law schools don't get progressively cheaper as they get lower ranked, right? There are a few cheaper exceptions, but for the most part it's the same. Cooley will cost you roughly the same as a school that can actually get you a job.


I know what sticker is, sweetie. Again, read closer. A great deal of applicants will be paying sticker for whatever school they choose.


...ok. well, this has been fun. You're not getting it.

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romothesavior
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Re: Before You Post

Postby romothesavior » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:35 am

You clearly don't know what sticker is, because virtually every law school will be over 100k in total cost after three years. There are a small handful that are pretty cheap in tuition, but COL will put you over 100k almost every time.

And going to a low ranked school for 100k in debt is a terrible idea, especially when retake or don't go is almost always an option.

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Ben Franklin
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Re: Before You Post

Postby Ben Franklin » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:37 am

ImNoScar wrote:
Ben Franklin wrote:But they shouldn't be told that they shouldn't go to law school because they are considering a lower ranked law school.

There is a cavernous difference between:
1. Should I go to Wisconsin when I live in the state/have almost a full ride and want to be a PD?
2. Should I go to Brooklyn at sticker to get biglaw?
If you understand what I am getting at, regional schools are different. Recommendations vary widely by the health of the market OP desires and the OP's goals. There are many, many situations where a regional school with $$$ is a better choice than a T14 at sticker.

If (chance of desired outcome) * (average payoff) > cost,* you should go to lawschool. TLS is about helping people make smart decisions by evaluating those factors.

Edit: *This isnt a scientific equation. Im no learned hand.


100% agreed. I suppose my gripe is with that 5% of TLS posters who bash people who voice a desire to attend lower ranked law schools. Regional schools are very different, as certain markets are very favorable to graduates from schools in their region.

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sublime
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Re: Before You Post

Postby sublime » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:37 am

..

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RELIC
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Re: Before You Post

Postby RELIC » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:38 am

sublime wrote:From what I have seen here at the forums it has been this:

HYS at sticker
CCN at slight discount
Rest of T14 at a solid discount
Top 20ish at a steep discount
T1 State flagship for free, where you want to work.


hard to argue too much with that as a general guideline imo.

If we could just put that at the top of the "choosing a law school" forum we could avoid most of these threads.

Although the employment numbers are improving for the top schools again. I would not be surprised if it changed to T6 at sticker, T14 at slight discount again.

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Ben Franklin
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Re: Before You Post

Postby Ben Franklin » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:39 am

romothesavior wrote:You clearly don't know what sticker is, because virtually every law school will be over 100k in total cost after three years.


If you factor in COL, yes. But if one already lives in the city of the school they plan to attend, COL is a forgone conclusion. You will pay that if you don't go to law school. There are plenty of law schools with in-state tuition ranging from $20-30k/yr, so debt < $100k is possible.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Before You Post

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:39 am

Ben Franklin wrote:
franklyscarlet wrote:
Ben Franklin wrote:
RELIC wrote:Fordham at sticker is bad idea.


Well any school at sticker is a bad idea. But if you have to pick a school at sticker (which is a great deal of applicants), you should pick one that keeps your total debt under $100k, preferably under $80k, IMO.


I'm assuming you're an 0L? Sticker means full tuition price. you realize that law schools don't get progressively cheaper as they get lower ranked, right? There are a few cheaper exceptions, but for the most part it's the same. Cooley will cost you roughly the same as a school that can actually get you a job.


I know what sticker is, sweetie. Again, read closer. A great deal of applicants will be paying sticker for whatever school they choose.

Do you have any idea how inconsistent you sound? "Numbers don't matter, it's whether you've got game. Except you have to keep your debt down, so don't go to an expensive top school/get scholarships. Except lots of applicants will pay sticker." If you don't have good numbers, you're not getting scholarships, which you seem to acknowledge - so then you're paying more for a lower chance at employment that will enable you to pay it back. Why is it shameful to encourage people to think really hard about whether this is worth doing?
Last edited by A. Nony Mouse on Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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hephaestus
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Re: Before You Post

Postby hephaestus » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:39 am

romothesavior wrote:You clearly don't know what sticker is, because virtually every law school will be over 100k in total cost after three years. There are a small handful that are pretty cheap in tuition, but COL will put you over 100k almost every time.

And going to a low ranked school for 100k in debt is a terrible idea, especially when retake or don't go is almost always an option.

The cheapest I could find on LST was LSU in state, which is 102k with interest. Ben, what schools are you referring to?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Before You Post

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:40 am

Ben Franklin wrote:
romothesavior wrote:You clearly don't know what sticker is, because virtually every law school will be over 100k in total cost after three years.


If you factor in COL, yes. But if one already lives in the city of the school they plan to attend, COL is a forgone conclusion. You will pay that if you don't go to law school. There are plenty of law schools with in-state tuition ranging from $20-30k/yr, so debt < $100k is possible.

But if you don't go to law school, you presumably won't have to take out loans to pay for COL, since you'll have a job and income to pay it. You have to factor in COL.

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hephaestus
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Re: Before You Post

Postby hephaestus » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:41 am

Ben Franklin wrote:
romothesavior wrote:You clearly don't know what sticker is, because virtually every law school will be over 100k in total cost after three years.


If you factor in COL, yes. But if one already lives in the city of the school they plan to attend, COL is a forgone conclusion. You will pay that if you don't go to law school. There are plenty of law schools with in-state tuition ranging from $20-30k/yr, so debt < $100k is possible.

Yes, you obviously have to pay to live. What a groundbreaking conclusion.
The point is, if you were not in law school, you would be working, and making money.

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sublime
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Re: Before You Post

Postby sublime » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:41 am

..

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skers
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Re: Before You Post

Postby skers » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:42 am

100k for a 50% chance at job paying 45k. Sounds legit.

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sublime
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Re: Before You Post

Postby sublime » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:43 am

..

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Ben Franklin
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Re: Before You Post

Postby Ben Franklin » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:43 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Do you have any idea how inconsistent you sound? "Numbers don't matter, it's whether you've got game. Except you have to keep your debt down, so don't go to an expensive top school/get scholarships. Except lots of applicants will pay sticker." If you don't have good numbers, you're not getting scholarships, which you seem to acknowledge - so then you're paying more for a lower chance at employment that will enable you to pay it back. Why is it shameful to encourage people to think really hard about whether this is worth doing?


Well that happens when you have one argument transcend into another argument, and then into another. The argument started on another issue and morphed as more people jumped in.

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hephaestus
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Re: Before You Post

Postby hephaestus » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:44 am

Update: per LST, there are only 3 schools with a COA under 90K:
Southern University (Resident), University of Puerto Rico, North Carolina Central (Resident).
North Dakota and Montana are close.

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romothesavior
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Re: Before You Post

Postby romothesavior » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:46 am

Ben Franklin wrote:
romothesavior wrote:You clearly don't know what sticker is, because virtually every law school will be over 100k in total cost after three years.


If you factor in COL, yes. But if one already lives in the city of the school they plan to attend, COL is a forgone conclusion. You will pay that if you don't go to law school. There are plenty of law schools with in-state tuition ranging from $20-30k/yr, so debt < $100k is possible.

Not if they're taking out debt to cover their COL.

Ben Franklin wrote:I suppose my gripe is with that 5% of TLS posters who bash people who voice a desire to attend lower ranked law schools.

You've backtracked a lot since your first post ITT, all without admitting you were wrong about any of the litany of comments you've been proven wrong on and pinned down to. You might make a TLS regular yet. You're like as dense and willfully ignorant as BearsGrl, but with more grace and tact.

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Ben Franklin
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Re: Before You Post

Postby Ben Franklin » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:46 am

ImNoScar wrote:
romothesavior wrote:You clearly don't know what sticker is, because virtually every law school will be over 100k in total cost after three years. There are a small handful that are pretty cheap in tuition, but COL will put you over 100k almost every time.

And going to a low ranked school for 100k in debt is a terrible idea, especially when retake or don't go is almost always an option.

The cheapest I could find on LST was LSU in state, which is 102k with interest. Ben, what schools are you referring to?


I'm referring to any school with annual tuition < $30k. COL aside.

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skers
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Re: Before You Post

Postby skers » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:48 am

Ben Franklin wrote:
ImNoScar wrote:
romothesavior wrote:You clearly don't know what sticker is, because virtually every law school will be over 100k in total cost after three years. There are a small handful that are pretty cheap in tuition, but COL will put you over 100k almost every time.

And going to a low ranked school for 100k in debt is a terrible idea, especially when retake or don't go is almost always an option.

The cheapest I could find on LST was LSU in state, which is 102k with interest. Ben, what schools are you referring to?


I'm referring to any school with annual tuition < $30k. COL aside.


Is it GAME that allows someone to apparently not have to take on COL debt?
Last edited by skers on Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.




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