Boston College vs. Seton Hall

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which would you choose?

Boston College (Sticker Maybe)
33
43%
Seton Hall (Full Ride)
43
57%
 
Total votes: 76

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romothesavior
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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby romothesavior » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:39 pm

Given your horrible posting history, its hard to tell if you're trolling or not. I'm going to assume you're not, but... wow that was a silly post.

1. Top third at BC doesn't equal median at a T14. This kind of reasoning has been debunked on TLS more than I can count.
2. Even if it did, what's your point? You're not in at a T14. You're looking at sticker at BC, meaning you're one of their lower end admits.
3. Its not even just about the risk of not landing biglaw; even with a six figure job you are going to be in insane debt. Do you have any idea how much 250k+ is? I have less than half that in law school debt and I have a big firm job. My loan payment will be like $1600 a month and if I can pay that for ten years I'll be out of debt. (I am likely going to pay more than that to pay it off early if I can, but its still a shitload of dough... close to 200k once its all paid off.) Even if you start out in biglaw, you could lose the job from Lathaming or standard attrition. Enjoy paying back 400-500k in law school debt.
4. You have a little over a 1/3 chance of even landing biglaw. Just an asinine idea to pay sticker at BU.

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DaRascal
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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby DaRascal » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:23 pm

I mean to say that I would attend any T14 at sticker and maybe BC's my T14 because if I don't finish top 1/3 there I wasn't going to graduate with the class rank needed to get biglaw out of a lower T14 so it'd rationalize going to BC if I can't get off any waitlists.

But you're making it sound like this decision would ruin me! :P

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romothesavior
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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby romothesavior » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:35 pm

DaRascal wrote:I mean to say that I would attend any T14 at sticker and maybe BC's my T14 because if I don't finish top 1/3 there I wasn't going to graduate with the class rank needed to get biglaw out of a lower T14 so it'd rationalize going to BC if I can't get off any waitlists.

But you're making it sound like this decision would ruin me! :P

Your first sentence is borderline indecipherable.

To the second, yes, it probably would. Do the math, dummy.

Again, I'm not just saying "Don't go to BC at sticker because you might not get a biglaw job," although that's certainly part of it. I'm saying it's not worth it at sticker even if we assume you're one of the lucky ones and get a 6-figure job. If you put a huge sum of your first year's salary towards your student loan debt (20-30k, which is a ton), you're barely even making a dent in your overall debtload because 250k+ debt at 7-8% interest is no joke. It'll probably be years before you get it under 200k, and you very well could end up paying around a half a million dollars for your law degree, and again, that's if you're lucky. Sticker to almost any law school (yes, even most T14s) is just financially daunting, and it's not just due to the no-biglaw risk.

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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby WahooLaw24 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:52 pm

BC is absolutely crazy here. Why this vote is close, I have no idea.

Seton Hall full ride with a very reasonable stip is normally a great deal for someone w/ NJ ties. If you're willing to accept that only maybe 10% (?) of students get Big Law from SH, and you'd be willing to drop out if you lost the scholarship, there isn't a terrible amount of downside.

Retake is TCR, but I'm making the Seton Hall case just so you don't go to BC.

WanderingPondering
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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby WanderingPondering » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:09 pm

You really want everyone to tell you to go to BC and pay sticker, huh.

If you're not going to take the time to work out what that means mathematically, you're probably not ready to go to graduate school. Sorry to be harsh.

At the end of the day its your choice, and you're going to be the one affected by your decision.

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DaRascal
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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby DaRascal » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:06 am

WahooLaw, I don't think retake does a lot for me seeing as my PT average was 165 and I don't feel confident I can score more than a couple of points higher than my current LSAT score (161).

I'm starting to think Seton Hall full ride is the way to go regardless of whether or not I come off some T14 waitlists. I know over a lifetime a T14 degree is usually worth a lot more than the $150k in loans I'd have to take out but I'd be worried about getting owned at those schools and, as romo said, that's a lot to pay back with accruing interest. At least with the full ride at Seton Hall I'd have less pressure to do well even though I'm still worried about the section stacking that everyone says exists there. And besides I've heard SH is a great school to go to get hired at the state's top firms.

Good decision? :)

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dirtrida2
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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby dirtrida2 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:12 am

DaRascal wrote:WahooLaw, I don't think retake does a lot for me seeing as my PT average was 165 and I don't feel confident I can score more than a couple of points higher than my current LSAT score (161).

I'm starting to think Seton Hall full ride is the way to go regardless of whether or not I come off some T14 waitlists. I know over a lifetime a T14 degree is usually worth a lot more than the $150k in loans I'd have to take out but I'd be worried about getting owned at those schools and, as romo said, that's a lot to pay back with accruing interest. At least with the full ride at Seton Hall I'd have less pressure to do well even though I'm still worried about the section stacking that everyone says exists there. And besides I've heard SH is a great school to go to get hired at the state's top firms.

Good decision? :)



Have you visited the school?

I got 45k at Seton Hall, but after visiting I could never see myself there.

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DaRascal
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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby DaRascal » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:14 am

I actually lived in Newark ten years ago and I'm from North Jersey. The school doesn't look that impressive but I'm fine with Newark.

Informative
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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby Informative » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:30 am

It depends. If you want Biglaw, there are only five or six schools outside of the T14 that give you a reasonable shot at biglaw. Boston College is one of those schools. However, it is expensive.

If you don't care about biglaw, I would take the scholarship and forfeit biglaw and go to Seton Hall. Might be best in the long run to keep your debt down.

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dirtrida2
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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby dirtrida2 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:45 am

DaRascal wrote:I actually lived in Newark ten years ago and I'm from North Jersey. The school doesn't look that impressive but I'm fine with Newark.



The main downfall to me was that the school lacked amenities. The library was also very dreary and had very limited studying space.

For their tuition price, I expected a lot more. I enjoy a campus atmosphere and like to be in close proximity to the gym, caf, library, and my residence.

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cinephile
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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby cinephile » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:57 pm

dirtrida2 wrote:
DaRascal wrote:I actually lived in Newark ten years ago and I'm from North Jersey. The school doesn't look that impressive but I'm fine with Newark.



The main downfall to me was that the school lacked amenities. The library was also very dreary and had very limited studying space.

For their tuition price, I expected a lot more. I enjoy a campus atmosphere and like to be in close proximity to the gym, caf, library, and my residence.


Those are not factors to consider when looking at a law school. Not at all. Forget about it and pay to join a gym near your school.

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dirtrida2
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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby dirtrida2 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:00 pm

cinephile wrote:
dirtrida2 wrote:
DaRascal wrote:I actually lived in Newark ten years ago and I'm from North Jersey. The school doesn't look that impressive but I'm fine with Newark.



The main downfall to me was that the school lacked amenities. The library was also very dreary and had very limited studying space.

For their tuition price, I expected a lot more. I enjoy a campus atmosphere and like to be in close proximity to the gym, caf, library, and my residence.


Those are not factors to consider when looking at a law school. Not at all. Forget about it and pay to join a gym near your school.



Hmm... when deciding between a full ride at Rutgers and 45k at Seton Hall - being comfortable and enjoying the area in which I will be spending most of my time is important to me.

I see your point, but when I am looking at two schools with similar employment prospects, and the school footing a full ride (plus $3,000 in grant money) has other tangibles to offer, it is definitely something i take into consideration.

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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby thethe » Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:48 pm

your classmates are a huge predictor of your grades, and a huge factor.

if they really section stack at seton hall, i'd avoid it. just keeping your scholarship shouldn't be the goal. it should be as high as possible. section stacking 100% stunts your class rank. it's a 3 year commitment. you don't want your employment options somewhat depressed because of shady business practices.

thethe
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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby thethe » Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:50 pm

dirtrida2 wrote:
cinephile wrote:
dirtrida2 wrote:
DaRascal wrote:I actually lived in Newark ten years ago and I'm from North Jersey. The school doesn't look that impressive but I'm fine with Newark.



The main downfall to me was that the school lacked amenities. The library was also very dreary and had very limited studying space.

For their tuition price, I expected a lot more. I enjoy a campus atmosphere and like to be in close proximity to the gym, caf, library, and my residence.


Those are not factors to consider when looking at a law school. Not at all. Forget about it and pay to join a gym near your school.



Hmm... when deciding between a full ride at Rutgers and 45k at Seton Hall - being comfortable and enjoying the area in which I will be spending most of my time is important to me.

I see your point, but when I am looking at two schools with similar employment prospects, and the school footing a full ride (plus $3,000 in grant money) has other tangibles to offer, it is definitely something i take into consideration.

but it's not just the scholarship $. even with no debt, class rank may dictate employment prospects. why go to a school that even if you keep the full ride your GPA is likely lower bec. of section stacking? why not go to a similarly ranked, but not section stacking school?

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Tier2Allstar
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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby Tier2Allstar » Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:20 pm

When I visited Seton Hall I talked to a number of students with and without scholarships. There was absolutely no indication that they stacked sections and no one there seemed to believe they did stack. The area around the school is super sketch, but you will be inside.

I really question anyone favoring Rutgers over Seton Hall for aesthetic value (money sure). Newark is all sketch. Rutgers is a lobby piano short of being the front desk at a marriot. It is four blocks away and the only additional amenity it offers is a campus. At least at Seton Hall you can stare at Manhattan out the window and dream of Big Law.

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stillwater
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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby stillwater » Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:26 pm

Seton Hall is a dump.

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dirtrida2
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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby dirtrida2 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:40 pm

Tier2Allstar wrote:When I visited Seton Hall I talked to a number of students with and without scholarships. There was absolutely no indication that they stacked sections and no one there seemed to believe they did stack. The area around the school is super sketch, but you will be inside.

I really question anyone favoring Rutgers over Seton Hall for aesthetic value (money sure). Newark is all sketch. Rutgers is a lobby piano short of being the front desk at a marriot. It is four blocks away and the only additional amenity it offers is a campus. At least at Seton Hall you can stare at Manhattan out the window and dream of Big Law.


Camden.

With a full ride and 3 grand in grants from the state, it would be silly for me to pick SHU especially when I don't even enjoy the law school building. Not to mention the library is very subpar.

Edit:

Unless their is something I am missing about SHU that would make my 45k on a 75% stip (could possibly negotiate for a full ride) more beneficial than my offer at Camden?

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Tier2Allstar
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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby Tier2Allstar » Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:19 pm

dirtrida2 wrote:
Tier2Allstar wrote:When I visited Seton Hall I talked to a number of students with and without scholarships. There was absolutely no indication that they stacked sections and no one there seemed to believe they did stack. The area around the school is super sketch, but you will be inside.

I really question anyone favoring Rutgers over Seton Hall for aesthetic value (money sure). Newark is all sketch. Rutgers is a lobby piano short of being the front desk at a marriot. It is four blocks away and the only additional amenity it offers is a campus. At least at Seton Hall you can stare at Manhattan out the window and dream of Big Law.


Camden.

With a full ride and 3 grand in grants from the state, it would be silly for me to pick SHU especially when I don't even enjoy the law school building. Not to mention the library is very subpar.

Edit:

Unless their is something I am missing about SHU that would make my 45k on a 75% stip (could possibly negotiate for a full ride) more beneficial than my offer at Camden?


No, I think you are good. Full ride at Not-Philadelphia Rutgers is better than full ride at Not-Manhattan Rutgers. Full ride is a full ride, if you screw up the worst case scenario is you are out food/rent/opportunity. However, if you have 45K/yr at Seton Hall on a tuition that is 47K/yr its close enough to where Seton Hall would seriously be a consideration if it were me compared to the Rutgerseses. Seton Hall seems to have enough events to where if you attended you could probably come up with 2 grand worth of free $hit a year to cover the difference.

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DaRascal
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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby DaRascal » Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:30 am

Tier2Allstar wrote:At least at Seton Hall you can stare at Manhattan out the window and dream of Big Law.


Maybe big law isn't all it's cracked up to be. 8)

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romothesavior
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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby romothesavior » Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:19 am

DaRascal wrote:
Tier2Allstar wrote:At least at Seton Hall you can stare at Manhattan out the window and dream of Big Law.


Maybe big law isn't all it's cracked up to be. 8)

Well if you go to BC at sticker price, you'll be crying yourself every night when you miss biglaw, thinking back on how all those TLSers were right.

Go to Seton Hall and be prepared for what is likely to be a crappy job.

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DaRascal
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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby DaRascal » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:52 pm

romothesavior wrote:
DaRascal wrote:
Tier2Allstar wrote:At least at Seton Hall you can stare at Manhattan out the window and dream of Big Law.


Maybe big law isn't all it's cracked up to be. 8)

Well if you go to BC at sticker price, you'll be crying yourself every night when you miss biglaw, thinking back on how all those TLSers were right.

Go to Seton Hall and be prepared for what is likely to be a crappy job.


Hmmm yeah but I feel like the BC thing would ibe the same story at any T14. I'm usually not risk averse but I'm terrified of not doing well.

At least at Seton Hall I'd have less pressure on me to excel because of the full ride and I'd have the mentality that if I work really hard there then I could have a shot at a high class rank even though there's not a lot of correlation between undergrad grades/lsat scores and class rank.
Last edited by DaRascal on Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Gunnar Stahl
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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby Gunnar Stahl » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:55 pm

DaRascal wrote:Hmmm yeah but I feel like the BC thing would ibe the same story at any T14. I'm usually not risk averse but I'm terrified of not doing well.

At least at Seton Hall I'd have less pressure on me to excel because of the full ride and I'd have the mentality that if I work really hard there then I could have a shot at a high class rank even though there's not a lot of correlation between grades/lsat scores and class rank.

what

thethe
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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby thethe » Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:45 pm

DaRascal wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
DaRascal wrote:
Tier2Allstar wrote:At least at Seton Hall you can stare at Manhattan out the window and dream of Big Law.


Maybe big law isn't all it's cracked up to be. 8)

Well if you go to BC at sticker price, you'll be crying yourself every night when you miss biglaw, thinking back on how all those TLSers were right.

Go to Seton Hall and be prepared for what is likely to be a crappy job.


Hmmm yeah but I feel like the BC thing would ibe the same story at any T14. I'm usually not risk averse but I'm terrified of not doing well.

At least at Seton Hall I'd have less pressure on me to excel because of the full ride and I'd have the mentality that if I work really hard there then I could have a shot at a high class rank even though there's not a lot of correlation between undergrad grades/lsat scores and class rank.

The difference is to get a good job:

1.) T-14: Need to do well.
2.) BC: Need to do really well.
3.) Seton Hall: Need to dominate.

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DaRascal
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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby DaRascal » Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:12 pm

Don't you think "dominate" is a little bit of an overstatement? I feel like top 30% at Seton Hall would lead to a good job in NJ.

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romothesavior
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Re: Boston College vs. Seton Hall

Postby romothesavior » Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:14 pm

DaRascal wrote:Don't you think "dominate" is a little bit of an overstatement? I feel like top 30% at Seton Hall would lead to a good job in NJ.

Define "good job"




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