Ever so slight doubts about Yale Forum

[pacifica]

Redacted by request.

[005618502]

It doesnt matter where you will get the best "IP" education. Are you a hard science background? If so it will be easy for you to break into IP from either school. You learn to be a lawyer on the job, not in law school.

Secondly, Yale is the best law school in the country, if thats where you want to be...go there.

Stanford is an amazing school and with you goal being biglaw, you will have the same prospects from both schools (but anyone who says that people will have it easier getting BL out of Stanford than Yale is out of their minds. The only reason there is the difference the professor mentioned is because of self selection. I can promise you, you will have ZERO trouble getting biglaw from Yale. If it were me, I would go to Yale simply because the first semester is pass/fail and I couldnt imagine having all my classes be pass/fail my first semester.

I will say, if you can live at home going to Stanford and it would really cut your debt at graduation by more than half, you should go to Stanford (in my opinion). Also, why are you not taking the Rubenstein? Graduating debt free from a place like Chicago is great and you will always have that Rubenstein on your resume. With your goal being biglaw and not academia, I cant see why you are not taking the Rubenstein...

[guano]

Go to Stanford. Yale might be the absolute pinnacle, but Stanford is not far behind and if it's significantly cheaper, the price difference isn't worth it

[izy223]

Most of my professors at NYU hate YLS i dont know why. They all speak highly of the other top schools but when given a chance to pick on YLS they take it.

I dont know if this is indicative of Professors just not liking Yale or something deeper, your call

[04102014]

Go to Stanford. Yale might be the absolute pinnacle, but Stanford is not far behind and if it's significantly cheaper, the price difference isn't worth it

This. Don't feel like you have to go to Yale just because nobody gets in. If Stanford suits your plans better--and here it definitely seems to--I would head to Palo Alto.

[NYstate]

What offers do you have exactly?
I'm curious what world you live in that you don't have to think about money?
Why are you sure you want biglaw? I feel confident that you can get biglaw from Yale if that is what you really want. Most people chose yale for reasons other than biglaw goals.

I think going to Chicago for free is an amazing deal. What are your reasons for turning it down? Are you going just off prestige or are their substantial reasons you prefer Yale over Chicago and cost doesn't matter to you ?

Finally, isn't it better to be in California to develop an IP practice?

[005618502]

Seriously OP if you can go to Columbia or Chicago for free, and your goal is biglaw, it would not be a smart move to pass that up.... unless you are one of those whose parents are paying their way

[pacifica]

It doesnt matter where you will get the best "IP" education. Are you a hard science background? If so it will be easy for you to break into IP from either school. You learn to be a lawyer on the job, not in law school.

This is what I've been hearing from everyone I've talked to about this dilemma.

I know it's stupid, but I've been dreaming about YLS since I was a tween, which makes it that much harder to turn down, but it does seem like the majority of the tangible arguments outside of prestige favor Stanford.

The major reason I don't plan on taking the Rubenstein is that I'm concerned about my law school performance. I come from a hard science background, so it'll take some time for me to adjust to the sheer volume of reading and writing. I don't want my grades to take a ding. Having pass/fail and/or H/P system is much more appealing to me.

Yale's offer was 9K for the first year. If I project that out, it'll be 9K next year, and 18K the 3L year (because I'll turn 29 then); roughly 35K off. I'm not sure about Stanford's offer yet, but I'm guessing probably close to 1.5X Yale's from what I read. And Stanford does a 50%-25%-0% parental contribution scheme for ages 27-28-29, whereas Yale does 50%-50%-0%, so that 2L offer will be dramatically different between Yale and Stanford.

And no, I didn't get the Hamilton, even though I argued with them vigorously for it, lol

[yarsten]

If you have any desire to stay in California and/or have a family and/or care about how happy you'll be for the next three years and/or are not infinitely wealthy then your wavering is totally reasonable. Honestly, I've talked to several people that have gotten into Yale and are happily at H/S and the huge gap that seems to exist between Y and SH here on TLS just doesn't show up much IRL. Yes, Yale is top on the USNWR, but between the three I'd say pick the one you think you'll enjoy and that fits you the best. 0L's don't know anything (coming from a 0L ).

[vzapana]

what type of IP do you want to do? according to columbia and nyu IP professors, stanford is all patents and little copyright. on the other and, yale has very little of either... harvard has more copyright options and fewer patent ones. moreover, h kills on cyberlaw, the professors said. finally, they trashed chicago, which they said had barely any IP.

[LRGhost]

Stanford or Chi, whichever winds up being cheaper. You'll get BigLaw anyway.

It's also safe to say that a tremendous number of YLS students self-select out of BigLaw because they can.

[pacifica]

what type of IP do you want to do? according to columbia and nyu IP professors, stanford is all patents and little copyright. on the other and, yale has very little of either... harvard has more copyright options and fewer patent ones. moreover, h kills on cyberlaw, the professors said. finally, they trashed chicago, which they said had barely any IP.

Patents most likely. I'm not really considering H though because I wanna get the hell out of Boston (sorry...)

In a related thought, I kinda wonder when professors say a certain school is "really good" in area, is that in relation to publications? research? faculty reputation? or something actually directly applicable to the student in terms of the education they receive?

[vzapana]

what type of IP do you want to do? according to columbia and nyu IP professors, stanford is all patents and little copyright. on the other and, yale has very little of either... harvard has more copyright options and fewer patent ones. moreover, h kills on cyberlaw, the professors said. finally, they trashed chicago, which they said had barely any IP.

Patents most likely. I'm not really considering H though because I wanna get the hell out of Boston (sorry...)

In a related thought, I kinda wonder when professors say a certain school is "really good" in area, is that in relation to publications? research? faculty reputation? or something actually directly applicable to the student in terms of the education they receive?

i asked specifically on research and education. i didn't ask on faculty reputation and publications, but i imagine the four are somewhat interconnected.

[Greenandgold]

As an IP student at Chicago right now, I'd take Stanford at half-price over Chicago for free any day. The stress of real grades isn't worth the price difference. You'll end up with firm jobs your 1L summer and 2L summer. Put that money towards your student loans and you'll walk out of law school with less than 50k in debt.

[A. Nony Mouse]

In a related thought, I kinda wonder when professors say a certain school is "really good" in area, is that in relation to publications? research? faculty reputation? or something actually directly applicable to the student in terms of the education they receive?

Can't prove this, but my suspicion (knowing academia/profs generally) is that they're talking about faculty reputation/research/publications. The assumption is that working with the best faculty in a research field = the best experience. That's because they're professors. I don't think they're generally talking very much about anything more applicable to the student's education. Of course, if they start talking about clinics/connections to firms/access to clerkships, that kind of thing, that's much more useful. But I think when you're looking at elite schools like HYS, and professors who have self-selected into academia, they're usually judging the school by its academic strengths.

[ManOfTheMinute]

go to yale. quit being dumb

[LRGhost]

go to yale. quit being dumb

There are plenty of reasons to not go to Yale. OP happens to be in a situation where they become relevant.

[guano]

go to yale. quit being dumb

^ this is being dumb

[PMan99]

Honestly I'd pick Chi unless you're dead set on some career that will let you access LRAP anyway, like academia/PI, where it would make sense to go to Y (or S).

[star fox]

Usually specialty rankings are stupid but when picking between Yale and Stanford I think it can become relevant. I would say for your goals, Stanford makes sense. You're not trying to become a Professor or Supreme Court Justice so I don't see why you need to go to Yale if it's more expensive.

[Dr. Dre]

go to yale. quit being dumb

^ this is being dumb

[ph14]

HLS 2L here, so I have no horse in the race. I would probably pick SLS if I were in your shoes, for many of the reasons already given in this thread. Also keep in mind where you would be happiest for 3 years. In my opinion, that is worth a lot and an undervalued aspect of analysis on TLS. Would you be happier remaining closer to home and friends and family (and the geographic center of IP work in this country)? Or would you be happier going off to Yale? Don't feel pressured to pick Yale just because you got in and it's hard to get accepted, or that their yield is higher. At least some of the higher yield rate, I would think, is east coast applicants opting to remain on the east coast. You need to make the best decision for you.

[coldweather]

IMO,

Your background eliminates any marginal advantage yale has over stanford in the job market (questionable if there is any difference in big law). It comes down to personal preference and quality of life. Do you want to have a random dinner with your family during the week or see them only during major breaks... Ask yourself this question, if Stanford was ranked 1 and Yale 2 would you hesitate to go to Stanford?

[ManoftheHour]

Congrats on your amazing cycle. I'd take Stanford and not look back.

[BioEBear2010]

I chose SLS over YLS for very similar reasons and couldn't be happier with my decision. Feel free to PM me for specifics, but suffice it to say that I can't imagine someone with your interests would find any real additional value over in New Haven.