Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

UCI full ride or UCB no money?

UCI
45
30%
UCB
105
70%
 
Total votes: 150

sfhaze
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby sfhaze » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:50 am

See what happens if you apply for a UCB matching scholarship with your UCI full ride.

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UtilityMonster
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby UtilityMonster » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:11 am

sfhaze wrote:See what happens if you apply for a UCB matching scholarship with your UCI full ride.


You can't. That is limited to offers from T-14 excluding Northwestern.

sfhaze
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby sfhaze » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:14 am

UtilityMonster wrote:
sfhaze wrote:See what happens if you apply for a UCB matching scholarship with your UCI full ride.

You can't. That is limited to offers from T-14 excluding Northwestern.

I know -- that's kind of my point. :wink:

As an aside, why is Northwestern excluded? I've wondered about that.

Big Dog
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby Big Dog » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:23 am

OP:

There is a LOT of disdain for UCI on TLS, so take the comments with a grain of salt.

What makes this a difficult decision is your statement, "my family income is below poverty." In contrast, I would guess that the vast majority of TLS'ers, who are hating on UCI, come from middle-upper class, whose parents can help/bail out if need-be, so their lenses are colored differently.

UCI for free/near free is an excellent offer. The fact that you want to settle in SoCal is another local factor, which means that you don't need the portability of Cal.

UCI's Class of '17 is the first one that will be ranked. And we can all speculate what will happen, or not, but I have no doubt that Dean Chem and the other faculty will go all out for the 15's and 16's, if for no other reason, to build some brand (aka success) for recruiting the 17's. Of course, whether they will be successful is the gamble. But it is almost a free gamble.

Is Cal that much better? Sure. But unless you are set on Big Law, it just may not be worth it to you.

Just my $0.02.
Last edited by Big Dog on Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

sfhaze
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby sfhaze » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:27 am

Big Dog wrote:What makes this a difficult decision is your statement, "my family income is below poverty."

If this is true, then it should become an easy decision since OP will likely get substantial need based aid from UCB.

Big Dog
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby Big Dog » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:29 am

^^Indeed the OP may get need-based aid, but that is facts not in evidence. And until the OP reports back with the financial aid offer, we are left with the OP's either/or question: UCI with full tuition, or Cal at sticker ("no money").

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby Dr. Dre » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:35 am

Big Dog wrote:OP:

What makes this a difficult decision is your statement, "my family income is below poverty." In contrast, I would guess that the vast majority of TLS'ers, who are hating on UCI, come from middle-upper class, whose parents can help/bail out if need-be, so their lenses are colored differently.


holy shit is this guy a wanker. I come from the fucken projects of south central los angeles and I'm going to tell you this: for a low-income student, I would think twice about considering TTTT ucIrvine for free. Who cares that it is free. If OP wants that job at the end of his 3 years, he is better off at CAL.

TLSwag
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby TLSwag » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:38 am

Big Dog wrote:OP:

There is a LOT of disdain for UCI on TLS, so take the comments with a grain of salt.

What makes this a difficult decision is your statement, "my family income is below poverty." In contrast, I would guess that the vast majority of TLS'ers, who are hating on UCI, come from middle-upper class, whose parents can help/bail out if need-be, so their lenses are colored differently.

UCI for free/near free is an excellent offer. The fact that you want to settle in SoCal is another local factor, which means that you don't need the portability of Cal.

UCI's Class of '17 is the first one that will be ranked. And we can all speculate what will happen, or not, but I have no doubt that Dean Chem and the other faculty will go all out for the 15's and 16's, if for no other reason, to build some brand (aka success) for recruiting the 17's. Of course, whether they will be successful is the gamble. But it is almost a free gamble.

Is Cal that much better? Sure. But unless you are set on Big Law, it just may not be worth it to you.

Just my $0.02.


Ha, well this guy definitely goes to UCI. And the OP does mention possibility of financial aid at Berkley, so that's a RC fail playa.

If you want my $.02, Berkley is the 2nd most sensible choice here... behind a retake. Surprised nobody said it before me, but OP between these two choices, definitely deposit at Berkley, retake in June & get that $$. Win-Win

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby Dr. Dre » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:40 am

TLSwag wrote:
If you want my $.02, Berkley is the 2nd most sensible choice here... behind a retake.


this, so much, this

20141023
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby 20141023 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:14 am

OP shouldn't care whether UCI breaks the top 20, or even the top 100. The only thing that OP should be concerned with when selecting a law school is its employment rate into "desirable jobs." The USNWR rankings are fun to look at and discuss, but one should never base a decision around them, especially outside of the T14.

If UCI truly does have good employment prospects and the OP can go there for free, I am not sure I would call it a "horrible idea," especially since Berkeley doesn't have the best employment statistics itself. If we were talking about Stanford it would be a no-brainer, but UCB at sticker is a scary situation to be in if things don't work out.

empyreanrrv
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby empyreanrrv » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:25 am

UCI: ~50% chance to be a lawyer
B: ~50% chance for a job to pay of debt

Would you rather be unemployed with no debt, or employed somewhere with 250k of non-dischargeable debt?

If neither of these options appeal to you, retake.

FloridaCoastalorbust
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:59 am

empyreanrrv wrote:UCI: ~50% chance to be a lawyer
B: ~50% chance for a job to pay of debt

Would you rather be unemployed with no debt, or employed somewhere with 250k of non-dischargeable debt?

If neither of these options appeal to you, retake.


OP don't make the silly assumption that the only way to pay off Berkeley debt is through biglaw.

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Ramius
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby Ramius » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:04 am

FloridaCoastalorbust wrote:
empyreanrrv wrote:UCI: ~50% chance to be a lawyer
B: ~50% chance for a job to pay of debt

Would you rather be unemployed with no debt, or employed somewhere with 250k of non-dischargeable debt?

If neither of these options appeal to you, retake.


OP don't make the silly assumption that the only way to pay off Berkeley debt is through biglaw.



IBR has you covered. Just never get a job and you won't have to pay a dime.

Big Dog
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby Big Dog » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:05 am

Ha, well this guy definitely goes to UCI.



Nice try, but wrong. (Not even a good assumption.)

behind a retake. Surprised nobody said it before me,


Did the OP post his/her scores on this thread? (If so, I missed it.)

holy shit is this guy a wanker. I come from the fucken projects of south central los angeles ..


I clearly said the "majority," not all. RC fail.

fwiw: I grew up in the projects of Oakland, which makes South-Central look like an oasis.
Last edited by Big Dog on Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

Aroldis105
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby Aroldis105 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:11 am

empyreanrrv wrote:UCI: ~50% chance to be a lawyer
B: ~50% chance for a job to pay of debt

Would you rather be unemployed with no debt, or employed somewhere with 250k of non-dischargeable debt?

If neither of these options appeal to you, retake.


There's something to be said about your quality of life over the next 10 years if you take the UCB route. Law school will be difficult anywhere, as will your first few years as an associate, the added stress from all the debt will only compound the problem. In the long run UCB may be the better choice, but don't lose sight of the present for the distant future. Unexpected costs like medical bills or the ability to start a family or buy a home become much more difficult when one has 250k of debt hanging over their head.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby rickgrimes69 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:56 am

FloridaCoastalorbust wrote:
empyreanrrv wrote:UCI: ~50% chance to be a lawyer
B: ~50% chance for a job to pay of debt

Would you rather be unemployed with no debt, or employed somewhere with 250k of non-dischargeable debt?

If neither of these options appeal to you, retake.


OP don't make the silly assumption that the only way to pay off Berkeley debt is through biglaw.


Who said anything about only Biglaw? There are other ways to pay off debt (Fed Clerkship first, PSLF), but these are generally as difficult to get, if not more so, than Biglaw.

And the ~50% figure is accurate regardless. 38.1% of C/O 2011 went into firms 250+, 9.7% into Fed Clerkshps, and throw a few % points of PSLF eligible jobs to get around ~50% desirable outcomes which would allow you to service sticker debt from Berk.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... =employers

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J-e-L-L-o
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby J-e-L-L-o » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:21 pm

Although TLS posters make it seem that USNews ranking are worthless, they shit on UCI for saying no one knows where they will be ranked at


:roll:

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby Dr. Dre » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:39 pm

OP, simply put, don't go to the putrid UCI LS.

uci2013
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby uci2013 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:58 am

Wow! Congrats on having this decision to make. I was not put in that position when I decided on UCI - UCB showed me no love. I did have some t14 offers with no money though, and I was too debt averse to go sticker to the schools I got into. I don't regret that decision - especially now that I've had my exit interview and know how much I have to pay a month with the debt I do have.

I think it's a particularly tough decision since you want to work in So. Cal. And my advice would be to visit both and make a decision after visiting. I think we will continue to place well in So Cal. And we have been placing well elsewhere as a percentage of our class, including bay area and NYC placements.

By the way - Irvine is a great place to be if you are Persian. I wouldn't necessarily choose a law school based on that, but it could play a role if the decision is tough.

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99.9luft
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby 99.9luft » Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:06 am

uci2013 wrote:Wow! Congrats on having this decision to make. I was not put in that position when I decided on UCI - UCB showed me no love. I did have some t14 offers with no money though, and I was too debt averse to go sticker to the schools I got into. I don't regret that decision - especially now that I've had my exit interview and know how much I have to pay a month with the debt I do have.

I think it's a particularly tough decision since you want to work in So. Cal. And my advice would be to visit both and make a decision after visiting. I think we will continue to place well in So Cal. And we have been placing well elsewhere as a percentage of our class, including bay area and NYC placements.

By the way - Irvine is a great place to be if you are Persian. I wouldn't necessarily choose a law school based on that, but it could play a role if the decision is tough.


o rly? I didn't know a school so far from Wilshire Blvd can be good for Persians...haha j/k brosef.

In all seriousness, can you please talk about the OCI - how many people landed LA jobs (non-OC), many of us are curious.

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Mick Haller
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby Mick Haller » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:45 pm

Tom Joad wrote:I would probably take UCI. Almost $300 thousand is debt for a coin flip's chance at a job required to pay it off is scary as hell. You may never get a legal job from UCI, but at least you don't have the debt.


I agree with this. I got an okay midlaw job from Hastings, but even my 75k debt is a big pain in the ass. You don't realize how bad it sucks until you start paying it off.

My bud ran up 200k in loans, his payments are over 2k a month. Even if you are making biglaw money, that cuts your after tax income down significantly.

uci2013
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby uci2013 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:28 pm

99.9luft wrote:
In all seriousness, can you please talk about the OCI - how many people landed LA jobs (non-OC), many of us are curious.


I don't know the tally year by year, but for 2010-2012 (encompassing ~260 total students of which at most 1/2 probably participated in OCI, so no more than OCI participants - And some firms had more than 1 UCI student each year), 2Ls have placed in the following firms or corporations (in house) nationwide, according to our careers website. BUT not all of these were OCI driven. And while I landed my position via OCI, I do not recommend placing all your eggs in the OCI basket. Most of the students I know who wanted biglaw and did not get it relied too heavily on OCI and also did not employ a good bidding strategy based on their grades. Oh and one last thing - this list I thought included 3 summer classes but it might only include two, or it is not complete for summer of 2013 (2012 OCI period) because I know there is at least one person going to Portland this summer to work for a firm

<edit> Even more sure this list is not complete because a 2L placed with Rutan and Tucker in OC as well for Summer 2013. So if this list is for summers of 2011-2012 only and only 75 students or so did OCI, it shows a fair number of students also placed outside of OCI, and I know we did not have a 100% OCI placement rate. The main thing you can glean from this is we have a very strong placement rate into firms.:

Los Angeles:
DavisWright Tremaine;
DLA Piper;
Epstein Turner Weiss;
Fulbright & Jaworski LLP;
Greenberg Traurig LLP;
Hadsell Stormer Keeny Richardson & Renick, LLP;
K&L Gates LLP;
Manatt, Phelps & Phillips, LLP;
Milbank, Tweed, Hadley &McCloy LLP;
Morrison Foerster;
O’Melveny & [deleted] LLP;
Panish Shea & Boyle LLP;
Sedgwick, Detert, Moran & Arnold LLP;
Sheppard, Mullin, Richter & Hampton LLP;
Skikos Crawford Skikos & Joseph;
Strumwasser &Woocher LLP;
Traber & Voorhees;
True Religion;
Vladeck,Waldman, Elias & Engelhard, PC;
Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.

Orange County:
Aleshire &Wynder, LLP;
Allen Matkins Leck Gamble Mallory & Natsis LLP;
Andrews Thornton;
Bergener & Associates;
Broadcom;
Bryan Cave LLP;
Collins Collins Muir Stewart LLP;
Consumer Portfolio Services, Inc.;
Crowell & Moring;
DiMarco Araujo Montevideo;
Experian;
Fish & Associates PC;
Fragomen, Del Rey, Bernsen and Loewy, LLP;
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP;
Jafari Law Group, PLC;
Jones Day;
Kia Motors America;
Knobbe Martens Olson & Bear LLP;
Lanak & Hanna;
Latham & Watkins LLP;
Leigh Steinberg;
McDermottWill & Emery;
Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP;
Newmeyer & Dillion LLP;
O'Melveny & [deleted] LLP;
One LLP;
Pacific Dental Services;
R&S Law Group LLP;
Robinson Calcagnie Robinson Shapiro Davis, Inc.;
Sheppard, Mullin, Richter & Hampton LLP;
Snell & Wilmer;
Spencer Law Firm;
St. John Knits;
Steve Lopez Law;
Stradling Yocca Carlson & Rauth, PC;
Tressler LLP;
Troutman Sanders LLP

Riverside, CA
Best Best & Krieger;
Lobb & Cliff, LLP

San Diego, CA
Allen Matkins Leck Gamble Mallory & Natsis LLP;
Best Best & Krieger LLP;
Gordon & Rees LLP;
Jones Day

San Francisco, CA
Altshuler Berzon LLP;
Foley & Lardner LLP;
Recurrent Energy;
Shute, Mihaly &Weinberger LLP

Washington, DC
Cohen Milstein Sellers & Toll PLLC;
Jones Day

Honolulu, HI
Bays Lung Rose & Holma;
Goodsill Anderson Quinn & Stifel

Boston, MA
Foley & Lardner LLP

Minneapolis, MN
Halunen & Associates

New York, NY
Beldock Levine & Hoffman LLP;
Butzel Long;
Emery Celli Brinckerhoff & Abady LLP;
Teigland-Hunt LLP

San Antonio, TX
Goldstein, Goldstein & Hilley

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J-e-L-L-o
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby J-e-L-L-o » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:33 pm

1L and 2L firms and judicial placements for 2010-12 listed on their website.

http://www.law.uci.edu/career_dev/past_placements.html
Last edited by J-e-L-L-o on Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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99.9luft
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby 99.9luft » Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:16 pm

uci2013 wrote:
99.9luft wrote:
In all seriousness, can you please talk about the OCI - how many people landed LA jobs (non-OC), many of us are curious.


I don't know the tally year by year, but for 2010-2012 (encompassing ~260 total students of which at most 1/2 probably participated in OCI, so no more than OCI participants - And some firms had more than 1 UCI student each year), 2Ls have placed in the following firms or corporations (in house) nationwide, according to our careers website. BUT not all of these were OCI driven. And while I landed my position via OCI, I do not recommend placing all your eggs in the OCI basket. Most of the students I know who wanted biglaw and did not get it relied too heavily on OCI and also did not employ a good bidding strategy based on their grades. Oh and one last thing - this list I thought included 3 summer classes but it might only include two, or it is not complete for summer of 2013 (2012 OCI period) because I know there is at least one person going to Portland this summer to work for a firm

<edit> Even more sure this list is not complete because a 2L placed with Rutan and Tucker in OC as well for Summer 2013. So if this list is for summers of 2011-2012 only and only 75 students or so did OCI, it shows a fair number of students also placed outside of OCI, and I know we did not have a 100% OCI placement rate. The main thing you can glean from this is we have a very strong placement rate into firms.:

Los Angeles:
DavisWright Tremaine;
DLA Piper;
Epstein Turner Weiss;
Fulbright & Jaworski LLP;
Greenberg Traurig LLP;
Hadsell Stormer Keeny Richardson & Renick, LLP;
K&L Gates LLP;
Manatt, Phelps & Phillips, LLP;
Milbank, Tweed, Hadley &McCloy LLP;
Morrison Foerster;
O’Melveny & [deleted] LLP;
Panish Shea & Boyle LLP;
Sedgwick, Detert, Moran & Arnold LLP;
Sheppard, Mullin, Richter & Hampton LLP;
Skikos Crawford Skikos & Joseph;
Strumwasser &Woocher LLP;
Traber & Voorhees;
True Religion;
Vladeck,Waldman, Elias & Engelhard, PC;
Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.

Orange County:
Aleshire &Wynder, LLP;
Allen Matkins Leck Gamble Mallory & Natsis LLP;
Andrews Thornton;
Bergener & Associates;
Broadcom;
Bryan Cave LLP;
Collins Collins Muir Stewart LLP;
Consumer Portfolio Services, Inc.;
Crowell & Moring;
DiMarco Araujo Montevideo;
Experian;
Fish & Associates PC;
Fragomen, Del Rey, Bernsen and Loewy, LLP;
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP;
Jafari Law Group, PLC;
Jones Day;
Kia Motors America;
Knobbe Martens Olson & Bear LLP;
Lanak & Hanna;
Latham & Watkins LLP;
Leigh Steinberg;
McDermottWill & Emery;
Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP;
Newmeyer & Dillion LLP;
O'Melveny & [deleted] LLP;
One LLP;
Pacific Dental Services;
R&S Law Group LLP;
Robinson Calcagnie Robinson Shapiro Davis, Inc.;
Sheppard, Mullin, Richter & Hampton LLP;
Snell & Wilmer;
Spencer Law Firm;
St. John Knits;
Steve Lopez Law;
Stradling Yocca Carlson & Rauth, PC;
Tressler LLP;
Troutman Sanders LLP

Riverside, CA
Best Best & Krieger;
Lobb & Cliff, LLP

San Diego, CA
Allen Matkins Leck Gamble Mallory & Natsis LLP;
Best Best & Krieger LLP;
Gordon & Rees LLP;
Jones Day

San Francisco, CA
Altshuler Berzon LLP;
Foley & Lardner LLP;
Recurrent Energy;
Shute, Mihaly &Weinberger LLP

Washington, DC
Cohen Milstein Sellers & Toll PLLC;
Jones Day

Honolulu, HI
Bays Lung Rose & Holma;
Goodsill Anderson Quinn & Stifel

Boston, MA
Foley & Lardner LLP

Minneapolis, MN
Halunen & Associates

New York, NY
Beldock Levine & Hoffman LLP;
Butzel Long;
Emery Celli Brinckerhoff & Abady LLP;
Teigland-Hunt LLP

San Antonio, TX
Goldstein, Goldstein & Hilley


thank you, this is great info! UCI's OCI firms are increasing in number each year, but also good to hear that not relying on OCI can actually yield good results. Also curious about how many of these offers actually became jobs, but the data on that is limited (we will know the inaugural class's employment data soon, but i really wanna know that of larger classes). Will wait and see i guess.

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99.9luft
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Re: Irvine full scholarship or Berkeley no scholarship

Postby 99.9luft » Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:18 pm

J-e-L-L-o wrote:1L and 2L firms and clerkships for 2010-12 listed on their website.

http://www.law.uci.edu/career_dev/past_placements.html


thanks for this. One surprising thing i saw - two 1Ls were able to get summer positions with O'Melveny and Gibson! That's pretty kick-ass.




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