NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

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NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k)

NYU (75/90k discount)
56
81%
Chicago (45k discount)
13
19%
 
Total votes: 69

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banjo
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NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby banjo » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:17 pm

Any thoughts on this guys? I'm from the northeast and will probably play it "safe" by bidding almost exclusively on NYC.

Things I like about NYU (75k discount, 90k if PI during 2L summer):
-Manhattan is practically home and I won't have any adjustment period
-Three classes each semester with ungraded LRW = merciful
-Traditional pipeline into V10 and other NYC firms
-Networking opportunities (is this a factor?) and short subway ride from callbacks
-Might not have to move during summers/graduation

Things I like about Chicago (45k discount):
-Smaller class size with less competition for NYC. Will this make getting NYC biglaw easier than at NYU? This is huge.
-Appears to have slightly stronger placement overall
-Never lived outside the northeast and would love to experience a new city
-Significantly cheaper COL might make the scholly difference less than it appears
-Chicago is slightly more prestigious overall (small factor)
-I've been to Hyde Park a couple times and don't hate it

I would also appreciate any tips on negotiating among these schools. Whose offer do I send to whom?

Misc. Info: I haven't heard anything from CLS since September and kind of just gave up. I have some full-time WE and about 50k in savings.

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052220151
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby 052220151 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:20 pm

banjo wrote:Any thoughts on this guys? I'm from the northeast and will probably play it "safe" by bidding almost exclusively on NYC.

Things I like about NYU (75k discount, 90k if PI during 2L summer):
-Manhattan is practically home and I won't have any adjustment period
-Three classes each semester with ungraded LRW = merciful
-Traditional pipeline into V10 and other NYC firms
-Networking opportunities (is this a factor?) and short subway ride from callbacks
-Might not have to move during summers/graduation

Things I like about Chicago (45k discount):
-Smaller class size with less competition for NYC. Will this make getting NYC biglaw easier than at NYU? This is huge.
-Appears to have slightly stronger placement overall
-Never lived outside the northeast and would love to experience a new city
-Significantly cheaper COL might make the scholly difference less than it appears
-Chicago is slightly more prestigious overall (small factor)
-I've been to Hyde Park a couple times and don't hate it

I would also appreciate any tips on negotiating among these schools. Whose offer do I send to whom?

Misc. Info: I haven't heard anything from CLS since September and kind of just gave up. I have some full-time WE and about 50k in savings.


Unless Chicago COA ends up being substantially cheaper, go to NYU.

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UtilityMonster
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby UtilityMonster » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:22 pm

NYU seems to be the clear choice IMO. Only do Chicago if you are into law & econ, want academia, or can get a larger scholarship.

The prestige difference is negligible.

kaiser
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby kaiser » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:22 pm

This is borderline nonsensical. You want to work in NY and are from this area, so why wouldn't you go to one of the very best schools in the precise place you want to work, that has a huge alumni base and great placement in the best NY firms, that will allow you to network with NYC-based alums all the time, that is located in one of the most safe and fun parts of NYC, etc. And to top it all off, they gave you more $$. So I'm not seeing how this is even up for debate. Def NYU.

Your holdup seems to be that you think there is strong competition for NYC biglaw out of NYU. That really isn't the case. The firms hire so deep into the class that pretty much everyone I know has NYC biglaw lined up. There are so many great firms in NYC, and the hiring in NYC is so top-heavy (i.e. they love hiring from the top schools), that NYU, along with Columbia, never have a hard time placing lots of students into big firm positions.

PRgradBYU
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby PRgradBYU » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:00 pm

UtilityMonster wrote:NYU seems to be the clear choice IMO. Only do Chicago if you are into law & econ, want academia, or can get a larger scholarship.

The prestige difference is negligible.

badaboom61
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby badaboom61 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:13 pm

Going to Chicago would make it easier to get NYC biglaw in some ways - notably, less competition in NY market, while NYU would be easier in others - networking, connecting with alumni, etc. I'd say its a wash.

Go to whichever place will leave you with less debt. If they end up being comparable (and they might, NYC cost of living may well be 10k / yr more expensive than Hyde Park), go to the one you like better.

peeonyou
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby peeonyou » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:15 pm

NYU's COL would be a few thousand higher than Columbia's per year.

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UtilityMonster
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby UtilityMonster » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:19 pm

badaboom61 wrote:Going to Chicago would make it easier to get NYC biglaw in some ways - notably, less competition in NY marketn


Is there any evidence that NYC firms give points to people who went to schools outside of NY because they have some many grads from NY schools? That sounds like pure speculation and I doubt we have the data or anecdotes (who would admit to something so stupid?) to draw that conclusion.

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Xifeng
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby Xifeng » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:26 pm

I don't know if it gives you a "huge advantage" for getting NYC big law, but everyone I know who wanted NYC during OCI got it. PM me if you want more info about it.

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Ramius
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby Ramius » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:31 pm

badaboom61 wrote:Going to Chicago would make it easier to get NYC biglaw in some ways - notably, less competition in NY market, while NYU would be easier in others - networking, connecting with alumni, etc. I'd say its a wash.

Go to whichever place will leave you with less debt. If they end up being comparable (and they might, NYC cost of living may well be 10k / yr more expensive than Hyde Park), go to the one you like better.


This seems like a misplaced fallacy. Sure, the percentage of Uchi students getting NYC firms might be equal because so many less shoot for NYC, but the reality is that NYU has a much better connection to the big firms (as based on the recent NLJ survey results) in NYC and you'd be MUCH better off taking NYU and getting NYC employment through there. They are ultimately peers, so if your focus is NYC, take the school based in NYC.

law2015
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby law2015 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:42 pm

It is so ridiculous to think that UChi places as well or better than NYU for NYC. It is the same as claiming that NYU places better than Chicago in Chicago.

badaboom61
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby badaboom61 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:15 pm

law2015 wrote:It is so ridiculous to think that UChi places as well or better than NYU for NYC. It is the same as claiming that NYU places better than Chicago in Chicago.


That is actually not the same at all. Whereas Chicago firms are fairly insular and tend to look for ties to the city, NYC is a large, very open market that tends to care much more about prestige than ties. It's entirely possible, and frankly likely, that as a percentage of students who do OCI with New York firms, UChicago does as well as NYU. There's no good way to prove it, but you can't just rule it out summarily.

Also, it's pretty well established that HYS all do better with New York firms than NYU does, and they're not in New York.

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quiver
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby quiver » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:21 pm

kaiser wrote:This is borderline nonsensical. You want to work in NY and are from this area, so why wouldn't you go to one of the very best schools in the precise place you want to work, that has a huge alumni base and great placement in the best NY firms, that will allow you to network with NYC-based alums all the time, that is located in one of the most safe and fun parts of NYC, etc. And to top it all off, they gave you more $$. So I'm not seeing how this is even up for debate. Def NYU.

Your holdup seems to be that you think there is strong competition for NYC biglaw out of NYU. That really isn't the case. The firms hire so deep into the class that pretty much everyone I know has NYC biglaw lined up. There are so many great firms in NYC, and the hiring in NYC is so top-heavy (i.e. they love hiring from the top schools), that NYU, along with Columbia, never have a hard time placing lots of students into big firm positions.
TITCR. Unless Chicago somehow ends up being cheaper, NYU is the clear choice.

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thelawyler
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby thelawyler » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:28 pm

kaiser wrote:This is borderline nonsensical. You want to work in NY and are from this area, so why wouldn't you go to one of the very best schools in the precise place you want to work, that has a huge alumni base and great placement in the best NY firms, that will allow you to network with NYC-based alums all the time, that is located in one of the most safe and fun parts of NYC, etc. And to top it all off, they gave you more $$. So I'm not seeing how this is even up for debate. Def NYU.

Your holdup seems to be that you think there is strong competition for NYC biglaw out of NYU. That really isn't the case. The firms hire so deep into the class that pretty much everyone I know has NYC biglaw lined up. There are so many great firms in NYC, and the hiring in NYC is so top-heavy (i.e. they love hiring from the top schools), that NYU, along with Columbia, never have a hard time placing lots of students into big firm positions.


This. NYU is giving you more money, it is where you want to work, and probably where you want to live for the next three years. And I'd say it takes much less work on your part to land in NYC Big Law from NYU, simply by being in the city. Easy choice.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby Doorkeeper » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:36 pm

NYU. Not even close.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby Dr. Dre » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:40 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:NYU. Not even close.

20141023
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby 20141023 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:19 am

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Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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banjo
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby banjo » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:45 pm

Thanks for the input guys. I'm going to try to negotiate with Chicago, but it seems a lot of you would give the edge to NYU for NYC work even at equal cost, is that right? I'm not NYC or bust, but given that I have no secondary market ties and want a good chance at a firm job, my best bet is really NYC.

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Law Sauce
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby Law Sauce » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:04 pm

banjo wrote:Thanks for the input guys. I'm going to try to negotiate with Chicago, but it seems a lot of you would give the edge to NYU for NYC work even at equal cost, is that right? I'm not NYC or bust, but given that I have no secondary market ties and want a good chance at a firm job, my best bet is really NYC.


Take some time thinking about what you want. If you do decide your goal is definitely NYC then NYU easily wins as it has connections to all the top firms in the city. If, however, you are thinking of going for NYC biglaw because you dont think you could have options elsewhere, think again. Even without ties, Chicago could place you in Chicago, and with a little luck and some decent grades either could probably get you to DC, or DE for corporate, or any other place you can think up some reasons to be there. Short of deciding on a particular plan that Chicago would be a better place for (such as wanting to end up in Chicago and possibly DC), NYU wins hands down. Like I said however, It helps to know as much as you can exactly what you want to go for before OCI, because you will likely have options if you want to try for them.

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banjo
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby banjo » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:22 pm

Law Sauce wrote:
banjo wrote:Thanks for the input guys. I'm going to try to negotiate with Chicago, but it seems a lot of you would give the edge to NYU for NYC work even at equal cost, is that right? I'm not NYC or bust, but given that I have no secondary market ties and want a good chance at a firm job, my best bet is really NYC.


Take some time thinking about what you want. If you do decide your goal is definitely NYC then NYU easily wins as it has connections to all the top firms in the city. If, however, you are thinking of going for NYC biglaw because you dont think you could have options elsewhere, think again. Even without ties, Chicago could place you in Chicago, and with a little luck and some decent grades either could probably get you to DC, or DE for corporate, or any other place you can think up some reasons to be there. Short of deciding on a particular plan that Chicago would be a better place for (such as wanting to end up in Chicago and possibly DC), NYU wins hands down. Like I said however, It helps to know as much as you can exactly what you want to go for before OCI, because you will likely have options if you want to try for them.


Thanks. What if I simply wanted the best chance at a job out of OCI? I have a slight preference for litigation (where my WE lies) over transactional work, but beyond that, no particular geographical preference.

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hung jury
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby hung jury » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:05 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:NYU. Not even close.

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Law Sauce
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby Law Sauce » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:08 pm

banjo wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:
banjo wrote:Thanks for the input guys. I'm going to try to negotiate with Chicago, but it seems a lot of you would give the edge to NYU for NYC work even at equal cost, is that right? I'm not NYC or bust, but given that I have no secondary market ties and want a good chance at a firm job, my best bet is really NYC.


Take some time thinking about what you want. If you do decide your goal is definitely NYC then NYU easily wins as it has connections to all the top firms in the city. If, however, you are thinking of going for NYC biglaw because you dont think you could have options elsewhere, think again. Even without ties, Chicago could place you in Chicago, and with a little luck and some decent grades either could probably get you to DC, or DE for corporate, or any other place you can think up some reasons to be there. Short of deciding on a particular plan that Chicago would be a better place for (such as wanting to end up in Chicago and possibly DC), NYU wins hands down. Like I said however, It helps to know as much as you can exactly what you want to go for before OCI, because you will likely have options if you want to try for them.


Thanks. What if I simply wanted the best chance at a job out of OCI? I have a slight preference for litigation (where my WE lies) over transactional work, but beyond that, no particular geographical preference.


I think that you would have very good chances at a job at either. NYU class size is obviously larger and UChi students are in high demand in Chicago, but realistically by far the majority who want biglaw out of either, and who put in the work to market themselves as best and as broadly as they can, and who are flexible with respect to geography and prestige will get a biglaw job. My prior post was really about trying to figure out what your goals are because shooting for a positive goal is a better strategy than trying not to be the guy that misses the Biglaw ship. I believe I could have done marginally better my first year if I had this attitude instead of simply trying to do well enough not to get screwed. Basically, I am saying, worry less about not getting a job and focus on your goals and trying to maximize your performance to achieve them. If NYC biglaw is the goal, go to NYU and try to get the best firm you can. If government or DC or Chicago, I'd lean UChi. If you are completely unsure and you go to NYU, you will likely end up in NYC biglaw, which is a fantastic opportunity and will give you excellent career options, but it is not for everyone (however you are already familiar with manhattan and its downsides).

No one can answer your question about your likelihood of being unemployed from either (if you are asking my to guess, I'd guess UChi is marginally safer), but I would guess that unemployment is not a high percentage chance at either school, that either school is well worth the investment, and that dwelling on the negative chance would be counter-productive both for 1L performance and 0L school choice (obviously this advice is limited to choosing between two excellent schools such as these and with scholarships).

Edit: with respect to litigation, litigation is everywhere, this would not change my decision much at all, except to say that DC may be a more of a potential goal then if you were interested in transactional work

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Law Sauce
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby Law Sauce » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:14 pm

Like I said however, if you like NYC and want to continue living there, NYU has better connections to firms in the city and I would go there. NYC is obviously one of the premier places in the world to practice

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:43 pm

I think if you were completely indifferent to location, this would still lean toward NYU, but considering you seem to want to be in NYC it seems like an easy choice.

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Emma.
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Re: NYU (75/90k) vs. Chicago (45k) for NYC Biglaw

Postby Emma. » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:50 pm

Unless UChicago raises their scholarship offer I'd be leaning that way, but I think you should visit both schools before you make any decisions.

You might end up just liking UChi better, and given the difference in CoL it wouldn't be crazy to chose UChi over NYU based on your gut instinct after visits.




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