Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000 scholarship?

Washington & Lee
4
17%
Indiana-Mauer
20
83%
 
Total votes: 24

table3
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Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby table3 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:53 pm

Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000 scholarship? (I have not started negotiating with W&L. For the sake of this post, let's assume they won't budge.)

LST Profiles:
-W&L: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=wl
-IUB: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=indiana

Short-term goals:
-Clerkship for a federal judge for either one or two years.
-Gainful employment in the private sector (I'll narrowly define gainful as at least $100,000/yr.)

Mid-term career goal:
-Practice appellate law.

Long-term goal:
-Don the robe and warm a seat on the bench.

A bit about me:
-163/3.59 (I understand the urge to advise a retake. Honestly, I fully understand the implications. I'm posting here in search of additional advice.)
-Happy to settle in the midwest, the mid-Atlantic, and anywhere in between and to the south.
-Professional connections in DC and, to a slightly lesser extent, Texas (from working on Capitol Hill since July 2009).
-No undergrad debt.

Thanks in advance for your input.
Last edited by table3 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

empyreanrrv
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby empyreanrrv » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:01 pm

What are your numbers? Your goals are way too lofty for W&L to give you a meaningful shot.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=wl
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=indiana

~8% for federal clerkships, ~14% for large firms. My understanding is that practicing appellate law is extremely prestigious and almost requires high class placement in T14. You should retake or recognize that there is a very good chance you won't realize your goals.

That said, IUB is not a bad deal with 90k scholarship, assuming no stips What is CoA and how much debt would you be taking out?

table3
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby table3 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:14 pm

empyreanrrv wrote:What are your numbers? Your goals are way too lofty for W&L to give you a meaningful shot.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=wl
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=indiana

~8% for federal clerkships, ~14% for large firms. My understanding is that practicing appellate law is extremely prestigious and almost requires high class placement in T14. You should retake or recognize that there is a very good chance you won't realize your goals.

That said, IUB is not a bad deal with 90k scholarship, assuming no stips What is CoA and how much debt would you be taking out?


Yeah, they are lofty.

163/3.59. Retake advice duly noted.

IUB CoA is $242k. I'd end up taking out about $125k in loans.

empyreanrrv
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby empyreanrrv » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:17 pm

That is a lot more debt than I'd be willing to take on for a non-T14 school-- I don't think either option is worth it at this point.
Last edited by empyreanrrv on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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romothesavior
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby romothesavior » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:20 pm

For your goals, neither one. These schools are way too expensive, and 100k jobs or clerkships are unlikely. W&L at sticker is financial and career Russian roulette.

Where are you from? IUB is the better option of the two, but I think retake is the only credited option here.

rad lulz
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby rad lulz » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:21 pm

Not only are neither of those schools worth the cost, but also you need to seriously rethink your laughably ambitious career goals.

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romothesavior
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby romothesavior » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:39 pm

rad lulz wrote:Not only are neither of those schools worth the cost, but also you need to seriously rethink your laughably ambitious career goals.

+1

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Nova
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby Nova » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:53 pm

W&L at sticker is a bad move. You would very likely get debt pwnd.

Retake >>>>>> Indiana with 90k >>> W&L @ sticker

table3
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby table3 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:57 pm

romothesavior wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Not only are neither of those schools worth the cost, but also you need to seriously rethink your laughably ambitious career goals.

+1


Curious, where do/did y'all go?

table3
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby table3 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:58 pm

Nova wrote:W&L at sticker is a bad move. You would very likely get debt pwnd.

Retake >>>>>> Indiana with 90k >>> W&L @ sticker


Thanks, this is the sort of helpful advice I was looking for.

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Dmini7
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby Dmini7 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:59 pm

table3 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Not only are neither of those schools worth the cost, but also you need to seriously rethink your laughably ambitious career goals.

+1


Curious, where do/did y'all go?


Romo=WUSTL
Rad= Vandy
Nova=UMN

I think they all had very substantial scholarships when they made their decision. Anyhow, your ambitions are way to high to settle for these schools mentioned. Realistically you need HyS to consider those possibilities. Vandy could help you get a clerkship, if I understand correctly they have a lot of power and ability to get them in the south (rad could probably answer that better). I don't think you can really count on becoming a judge no matter where you go :/.
Last edited by Dmini7 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

table3
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby table3 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:59 pm

romothesavior wrote:For your goals, neither one. These schools are way too expensive, and 100k jobs or clerkships are unlikely. W&L at sticker is financial and career Russian roulette.

Where are you from? IUB is the better option of the two, but I think retake is the only credited option here.


Texas. Waitlisted at UT.

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hephaestus
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby hephaestus » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:04 pm

If you will only be satisfied making 100k+ or clerking you need to go to a T14. I'm at cornell and there are a substantial percentage of people that get neither. However, more than half get big law or an A3 clerkship, which is essentially triple the percentage the schools youre looking at. The market is still bad, despite what deans are always saying about the market getting so much better. If the market is bad at the higher end, think about how it is for IU Indy.
You absolutely have to retake.

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cinephile
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby cinephile » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:06 pm

Are you from Indiana? Because I grew up just across the state line and I had the hardest time convincing employers in Indianapolis that I was sincere about wanting to live there forever and ever.

Also, there aren't a ton of biglaw jobs in Indiana, and that's pretty much what this school limits you to.

grapefruits
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby grapefruits » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:08 pm

Definitely W&L at sticker, great life choice. With the glut of legal jobs, there's no way that could backfire!

rad lulz
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby rad lulz » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:09 pm

table3 wrote:
Nova wrote:W&L at sticker is a bad move. You would very likely get debt pwnd.

Retake >>>>>> Indiana with 90k >>> W&L @ sticker


Thanks, this is the sort of helpful advice I was looking for.

I gave you the advice you ought to hear, not necessarily the advice you were looking for.

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hephaestus
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby hephaestus » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:09 pm

grapefruits wrote:Definitely W&L at sticker, great life choice. With the glut of legal jobs, there's no way that could backfire!

Your trolling is god awful.

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romothesavior
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby romothesavior » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:10 pm

romothesavior wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Not only are neither of those schools worth the cost, but also you need to seriously rethink your laughably ambitious career goals.

+1

FWIW, my goals are pretty much identical to yours (clerkship, big firm, appellate work, maybe someday a judge). But there's a world of difference between having lofty dreams that you hope to someday attain if you're fortunate enough vs. structuring your future plans around these lofty dreams. You need to be realistic, that's what rad and I are saying.

From these schools, your odds of a big firm job are slim. Your odds of a federal or state supreme court clerkship are slimmer. Just bear that in mind as you go forward.

And hey, why does Nova get a thanks for the helpful advice and I get the shoulder? I think he and I agree 100%. That's going to be the consensus around here: IUB is a less horrible choice than a quarter mil in debt to W&L but neither is worth the cost.

table3
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby table3 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:11 pm

Dmini7 wrote:I don't think you can really count on becoming a judge no matter where you go :/.

Haha, well, considering we elect our judges in Texas... But, I reckon you're referring to A3 judges.

table3
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby table3 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:12 pm

rad lulz wrote:
table3 wrote:
Nova wrote:W&L at sticker is a bad move. You would very likely get debt pwnd.

Retake >>>>>> Indiana with 90k >>> W&L @ sticker


Thanks, this is the sort of helpful advice I was looking for.

I gave you the advice you ought to hear, not necessarily the advice you were looking for.


Thx bro.

grapefruits
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby grapefruits » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:14 pm

ImNoScar wrote:
grapefruits wrote:Definitely W&L at sticker, great life choice. With the glut of legal jobs, there's no way that could backfire!

Your trolling is god awful.


Damn, I hope some day I can get my trolling up to your standards. Maybe I'll make a post asking whether I should take a quarter mill of taxpayer/Chinese investor's money, which I will never repay, to go to some garbage law school, or whether it would be smarter to take out $160,000 worth of the same, in order to have just as miserable prospects.

table3
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby table3 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:15 pm

romothesavior wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Not only are neither of those schools worth the cost, but also you need to seriously rethink your laughably ambitious career goals.

+1

FWIW, my goals are pretty much identical to yours (clerkship, big firm, appellate work, maybe someday a judge). But there's a world of difference between having lofty dreams that you hope to someday attain if you're fortunate enough vs. structuring your future plans around these lofty dreams. You need to be realistic, that's what rad and I are saying.

From these schools, your odds of a big firm job are slim. Your odds of a federal or state supreme court clerkship are slimmer. Just bear that in mind as you go forward.

And hey, why does Nova get a thanks for the helpful advice and I get the shoulder? I think he and I agree 100%. That's going to be the consensus around here: IUB is a less horrible choice than a quarter mil in debt to W&L but neither is worth the cost.


Thanks, Romo. I appreciate the follow-up.

table3
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby table3 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:15 pm

grapefruits wrote:
ImNoScar wrote:
grapefruits wrote:Definitely W&L at sticker, great life choice. With the glut of legal jobs, there's no way that could backfire!

Your trolling is god awful.


Damn, I hope some day I can get my trolling up to your standards. Maybe I'll make a post asking whether I should take a quarter mill of taxpayer/Chinese investor's money, which I will never repay, to go to some garbage law school, or whether it would be smarter to take out $160,000 worth of the same, in order to have just as miserable prospects.


I bet you're fun at parties.

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Dmini7
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby Dmini7 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:18 pm

table3 wrote:
Dmini7 wrote:I don't think you can really count on becoming a judge no matter where you go :/.

Haha, well, considering we elect our judges in Texas... But, I reckon you're referring to A3 judges.


Well no, I was talking about being elected. Both of those wont help you get a job in Texas, if you are elected I would assume it would be limited to that state. Regardless, the fact that it involves an election is why I think you can't count on it. Too many variables that are beyond your control. The school you attend will be the piece you can best control, and those with higher prestige in an area will help you best. But that is just my belief, I am a pessimist when it comes to being elected to things though haha, so take it with a grain of salt.

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romothesavior
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Re: Washington & Lee at sticker or Indiana-Mauer with a $90,000?

Postby romothesavior » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:21 pm

grapefruits wrote:
ImNoScar wrote:
grapefruits wrote:Definitely W&L at sticker, great life choice. With the glut of legal jobs, there's no way that could backfire!

Your trolling is god awful.


Damn, I hope some day I can get my trolling up to your standards. Maybe I'll make a post asking whether I should take a quarter mill of taxpayer/Chinese investor's money, which I will never repay, to go to some garbage law school, or whether it would be smarter to take out $160,000 worth of the same, in order to have just as miserable prospects.

Stop.




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