UT (full-ride), GW (75k), NU (held), or Columbia (no word)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

NU v. UT (146k) v. Columbia v. GW (75k)

NU
2
6%
UT (146k)
28
80%
Columbia
4
11%
GW (75k)
1
3%
 
Total votes: 35

raynmaker1005
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UT (full-ride), GW (75k), NU (held), or Columbia (no word)

Postby raynmaker1005 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:20 am

Hi all.

3.6/173 (4th), good softs with public interest essay, experience. 1 yr we. 09 grad from UCLA with BA in Linguistics.

Got a full ride from UT yesterday... pretty stoked about that. I'm reaching out to the community for help on a decision. :) Definitely will be contributing to the community with responses as well. Sorry i'm a relative noob, but I've been lurking for YEARS... Law school has been a long time coming for me. Sooo, here's the background,

As of now, I'm leaning towards NU and UT at full-scholly as my first choice. I'm not exactly sure what I want to do, but public service is definitely is a strong possibility. I'm not sure where i want to practice, but CA is definitely a market I would want to return to at some point in time. I'm really interested in immigration law, immigration reform, international law, business law (kinda), and i guess environmental law. I'm definitely not writing biglaw off the cards. But i don't really see myself doing it, considering the types of lifestyles i've heard associates having. I don't think any amount of money would be able to justify that. But, a less stressful private sector firm would definitely be very intellectually stimulating for me.

I also visited Chicago yesterday for the first time, and it's awesome. I love it so much. I definitely need more time think over how much i truly like the city, but at this point, I'm pretty convinced. The weather's not too bad, because I honestly like the feeling of going from a cold outdoor environment, to cozy warm inside. It's nice :)

Other than that, I'm honestly interested in a lot of different issues, politics, current events, technology, business, music, entertainment, tv... etc etc. Biglaw isn't completely out of the question, but I'm not feeling too positively about it right now. A mid-tier firm would be good i think. I'm just a curious person, and I have the advantage of having a semester of law school under my belt. I'm currently leaning NU as the first choice, with UT at a close second... Any thoughts? The other two are schools I would want to go to, but definitely not Columbia at sticker, and not GW at 75k over 3 yrs.

I know it's early in the cycle, but I definitely will be having to think about this for a long couple of months. I haven't heard back from UCLA or USC. I also got a full ride at Pepperdine. In at WUSTL. 50% scholly at Illinois. Some garbage offer at W&M. WL at Michigan. Rejected at Minn. Rejected at NYU and Berk. Haven't heard from Duke, Penn, UVA [(do i need to send LOCI's???) (I'm really not too passionate about any of those choices though, aside from Penn)] Also applied to Chicago, but I'm not really too sure how i feel about there. Haven't heard a peep from Harvard and Stanford, but i applied to those two in February. And honestly, #1, i don't think i'm going to get in, #2, i'm not sure if I'd want to go anyway.

Thanks all. Please let me know if I should be considering other schools as well...
Last edited by raynmaker1005 on Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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letsjustsee
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Re: UT (full-ride), GW (75k), NU (held), or Columbia (no word)

Postby letsjustsee » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:56 am

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Last edited by letsjustsee on Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

raynmaker1005
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Re: UT (full-ride), GW (75k), NU (held), or Columbia (no word)

Postby raynmaker1005 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:51 am



How do you get to a map like that? Sorry for the noob question..lol

You make some good points. I would agree that coming out of UCLA, USC, Berk, and Stanford are definitely going to be the ones placing better in the legal market. But, to be honest, I'm not exactly sure how I really feel about getting a legal job. I don't know if I want to be a practicing attorney....anywhere. My career path (in my mind at least) is definitely not decided yet. I really want to spend law school exploring what it is I want to do with my life. But, i'm pretty sure that I don't want pay and money to be indicators of my success and future. And California is my home, and I do like it, but I am pretty open minded about staying in another state if my 3 years at that state end up being a pleasant one. I feel like so many people go into the T-14 schools with such huge expectations of getting high paying legal jobs and that makes them lose sight of some of the more important things in life. I'm pretty flexible. I live in the moment and try to put my emphasis on that, rather than plans on the future. So, I'm starting to feel that getting a potentially very stressful, demanding, and unfulfilling job in a big firm might not be as important as it is to many people. And as such, I feel like going to a school with a good environment and a good program that fits my passions and desires would be more important than employment numbers and percentages. Furthermore, I feel like for me, at least, I study and perform a lot worse under pressure. Having no debt at UT really takes that pressure off my shoulders. So, my reasoning is that if I maybe go to a less competitive school, I may end up doing well and getting a bigger firm job, or maybe i might end up doing something else, such as government work, or public interest, or immigration law, or whatever.

rad lulz
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Re: UT (full-ride), GW (75k), NU (held), or Columbia (no word)

Postby rad lulz » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:54 am

raynmaker1005 wrote:


How do you get to a map like that? Sorry for the noob question..lol

You make some good points. I would agree that coming out of UCLA, USC, Berk, and Stanford are definitely going to be the ones placing better in the legal market. But, to be honest, I'm not exactly sure how I really feel about getting a legal job. I don't know if I want to be a practicing attorney....anywhere. My career path (in my mind at least) is definitely not decided yet. I really want to spend law school exploring what it is I want to do with my life. But, i'm pretty sure that I don't want pay and money to be indicators of my success and future. And California is my home, and I do like it, but I am pretty open minded about staying in another state if my 3 years at that state end up being a pleasant one. I feel like so many people go into the T-14 schools with such huge expectations of getting high paying legal jobs and that makes them lose sight of some of the more important things in life. I'm pretty flexible. I live in the moment and try to put my emphasis on that, rather than plans on the future. So, I'm starting to feel that getting a potentially very stressful, demanding, and unfulfilling job in a big firm might not be as important as it is to many people. And as such, I feel like going to a school with a good environment and a good program that fits my passions and desires would be more important than employment numbers and percentages. Furthermore, I feel like for me, at least, I study and perform a lot worse under pressure. Having no debt at UT really takes that pressure off my shoulders. So, my reasoning is that if I maybe go to a less competitive school, I may end up doing well and getting a bigger firm job, or maybe i might end up doing something else, such as government work, or public interest, or immigration law, or whatever.

Law school is not the time to explore what you want to do w your life

That time was your 4 years in college

Law school prepares you (badly) for being a lawyer, and nothing else

If you aren't sure you want to be a lawyer, don't go to law school

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philosoraptor
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Re: UT (full-ride), GW (75k), NU (held), or Columbia (no word)

Postby philosoraptor » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:59 am

rad lulz wrote:Law school is not the time to explore what you want to do w your life

That time was your 4 years in college

Law school prepares you (badly) for being a lawyer, and nothing else

If you aren't sure you want to be a lawyer, don't go to law school
A thousand times this. Do NOT go to law school if you're not ready to commit three years to getting a degree that qualifies you to apply for admission to the bar, and nothing else.

raynmaker1005 wrote:I study and perform a lot worse under pressure.
Then you may not enjoy law school or legal work.

raynmaker1005 wrote:my reasoning is that if I maybe go to a less competitive school, I may end up doing well and getting a bigger firm job, or maybe i might end up doing something else, such as government work, or public interest, or immigration law, or whatever.
This is incredibly naive. You've already said you can't handle stress, so a big firm job sounds right out, regardless of how well you do. Further, government work, public interest, and immigration law are not some sort of backup plan. Governments don't really hire new lawyers anymore, many entry-level federal jobs are more competitive than biglaw, and public interest and immigration employers require you basically to dedicate your life to whatever their particular niche is before they'll even look at your resume. Your idea of "I'll go to law school and just do whatever afterward" makes it clear that you have not even talked with anyone who's gone through the process of getting a legal job in the past few years. (And if you don't want a legal job, again, why on earth would you waste three years of life and potential earnings to go to law school?)

Moreover, going to a "less competitive school" and expecting to clean up is always a mistake. If you go to UT and slack off, expect instead that all your classmates who actually have goals and drive will lap you while you daydream about whether you would accept a high-paying, low-stress midlaw job or an EJW fellowship to save the world. You have to work hard (meaning you have to want to work hard, which it sounds like you don't), and even then, the curve makes mincemeat of your optimistic projections.

raynmaker1005 wrote:a less stressful private sector firm would definitely be very intellectually stimulating for me
This does not exist. You think clients pay their lawyers to sit around and intellectually stimulate themselves?

raynmaker1005
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 6:22 pm

Re: UT (full-ride), GW (75k), NU (held), or Columbia (no word)

Postby raynmaker1005 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:22 am

rad lulz wrote:Law school is not the time to explore what you want to do w your life
That time was your 4 years in college A thousand times this. Do NOT go to law school if you're not ready to commit three years to getting a degree that qualifies you to apply for admission to the bar, and nothing else.
l

Unfortunately, that didn't happen. My college experience wasn't completely lame. I ended up making some very good friends and enjoying a quality education in an area that I somehow ended liking quite a bit. I just feel quite strongly about the fact that I still have some 'exploring' to do. I'm just not ready to commit to anything on a long-term basis, unfortunately. That's why i feel like going to a school giving a lot of money is the best option. My parents will be helping me quite a bit. I haven't been working in the past year or so. The opportunity cost isn't terribly high for me. I'm lucky.

raynmaker1005 wrote:I study and perform a lot worse under pressure. Then you may not enjoy law school or legal work.

I'm not saying that i can't study. I enjoy studying. I just do worse when im stressed. I mean, i must have been doing something right if i got into UT. I also already nearly finished one semester at Loyola Law, Los Angeles. It wasn't bad at all, as far as workload, content, and study times. I just wasn't focused enough, and did not genuinely have a proactive approach to it.

philosoraptor wrote:This is incredibly naive. You've already said you can't handle stress, so a big firm job sounds right out, regardless of how well you do. Further, government work, public interest, and immigration law are not some sort of backup plan. Governments don't really hire new lawyers anymore, many entry-level federal jobs are more competitive than biglaw, and public interest and immigration employers require you basically to dedicate your life to whatever their particular niche is before they'll even look at your resume. Your idea of "I'll go to law school and just do whatever afterward" makes it clear that you have not even talked with anyone who's gone through the process of getting a legal job in the past few years. (And if you don't want a legal job, again, why on earth would you waste three years of life and potential earnings to go to law school?)Moreover, going to a "less competitive school" and expecting to clean up is always a mistake. If you go to UT and slack off, expect instead that all your classmates who actually have goals and drive will lap you while you daydream about whether you would accept a high-paying, low-stress midlaw job or an EJW fellowship to save the world. You have to work hard (meaning you have to want to work hard, which it sounds like you don't), and even then, the curve makes mincemeat of your optimistic projections.


Again, I don't really think i'm wasting the time. The opportunity cost isn't that high up for me. I honestly haven't talked to too many people with legal jobs in the past few years. That's because i don't know too many people with legal jobs. I know a couple of recent grads. I know 1L's, 2L's, and 3L's. I mean i've talked to them all. But I suppose it really just isnt the same. I'll ask around. Thanks though. Your perspective seems to be really good. And i guess in the end of the day, a legal job is one of the 'goal's,' so to speak. I haven't ruled out a legal job. I'm just feeling hesitant; that's all.

raynmaker1005 wrote:This does not exist. You think clients pay their lawyers to sit around and intellectually stimulate themselves?

No. I agree. I've worked at a small entertainment law firm. It wasn't terribly bad, but it was a really small firm, so i didnt get to see what goes on at a bigger firm. I just don't think that I want to do a job that is super stressful, and that I don't enjoy. If i do work at a firm, i just want to have a 9-5 with not too much over time at most.. i would say.... Of course, this isn't certain... I can't predict the future. I just want to be able to have a fulfilling life I can enjoy. And that includes spending time doing the little things. Not being swamped at work because I work at a big firm. Maybe i might end up wanting one of those jobs coming out of law school. Maybe i'll end up working at one for a couple of months or years... I just don't see myself there in the long term (at least from my perspective now).

Thanks guys for all the responses. I really do appreciate it. I'm not trying to troll here or anything. I've been lurking for a really long time on these boards... This is actually my .. 3rd cycle. So let me tell you this, i've definitely put int a lot of thought into the law school process. You may not agree with my views. And i understand clearly all the negative things about law school and the necessity to be prepared to fight for a legal job. I will definitely reconsider my views and look at the situation again. Again, it's probably too early to make a decision. So, i'm still learning a lot..

timbs4339
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Re: UT (full-ride), GW (75k), NU (held), or Columbia (no word)

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:12 pm

Unfortunately once you commit to law school you are committing on a long-term basis. You're committing to a degree that will take you out of the workforce for three years. You're committing to a degree that may open some doors but will close a lot of other. The best thing to do is get your exploring done before law school and go into school if not with your whole life planned out then with broad based goals for the next 3, 5, 10 years. Spend some time here and figure out what those might be.

If you've lurked here for awhile then you should know how legal hiring works. Salaries are bimodal. Biglaw is essentially a prerequisite for many medium tier private or government jobs. Very few categories of employers see the JD (without relevant legal experience) as a positive. If you don't want to do biglaw forever that's fine- I know people six months in already planning their exit strategy. But you actually sound like a perfect candidate for biglaw, since you have a lot of goals that are going to require more than just a JD.

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bk1
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Re: UT (full-ride), GW (75k), NU (held), or Columbia (no word)

Postby bk1 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:21 pm

If you don't want to be a practicing attorney anywhere, don't go to law school anywhere. Full stop.

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052220151
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Re: UT (full-ride), GW (75k), NU (held), or Columbia (no word)

Postby 052220151 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:26 pm

OP is super flame.

rad lulz
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Re: UT (full-ride), GW (75k), NU (held), or Columbia (no word)

Postby rad lulz » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:28 pm

raynmaker1005 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Law school is not the time to explore what you want to do w your life
That time was your 4 years in college A thousand times this. Do NOT go to law school if you're not ready to commit three years to getting a degree that qualifies you to apply for admission to the bar, and nothing else.

Unfortunately, that didn't happen. My college experience wasn't completely lame. I ended up making some very good friends and enjoying a quality education in an area that I somehow ended liking quite a bit. I just feel quite strongly about the fact that I still have some 'exploring' to do. I'm just not ready to commit to anything on a long-term basis, unfortunately. That's why i feel like going to a school giving a lot of money is the best option. My parents will be helping me quite a bit. I haven't been working in the past year or so. The opportunity cost isn't terribly high for me. I'm lucky.

Go get a job and figure it out. You're like 22.

Going to law school to figure out your life is monumentally stupid.

Law school will actually limit your options afterward on the whole, while only expanding your options in one area: legal work. In this economy, that basically means working for state government (usually PD/DA) or a firm. That's about it, since bigfed/PI/in-house are so rare for new grads.

You sounds spoiled bro. You have parents willing to pony up vast sums of money to fund some ill-conceived jaunt in lawl skool self-discovery, while meanwhile you just want to work a stress-free, super-fulfilling 9 to 5.

lol, just lol

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WokeUpInACar
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Re: UT (full-ride), GW (75k), NU (held), or Columbia (no word)

Postby WokeUpInACar » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:14 pm

ITT: Smart slacker kid aimlessly meanders through life on his parents' dime, seeks validation for decisions he has already made.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: UT (full-ride), GW (75k), NU (held), or Columbia (no word)

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:57 pm

TBF, if someone were going to go to law school to find themself (which, agreed, is objectively a bad idea), there are worse places to do it than at UT with a full ride.

crit_racer
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Re: UT (full-ride), GW (75k), NU (held), or Columbia (no word)

Postby crit_racer » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:19 pm

yeah just go to UT. Austin is a chill town, and at least you wont be racking up debt. Not a bad place to hang out for a few years, and if you end up doing well, then you have lots of options




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