Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

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jennigun
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Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby jennigun » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:05 pm

I'm stuck at a crossroads and any advice is greatly appreciated. I was born and raised in Davis, and went to UCSC for undergrad. I've been offered merit based scholarships to USF, McGeorge, Santa Clara, and a full ride to George Washington. This offer makes GW very appealing, but I am unsure of studying across the country, since I think I would like to end up working in CA or internationally. I've narrowed my options down to Davis, Hastings, and GW (I haven't been offered merit-based aid at the first two schools).

Any advice or opinions on the schools? I know Davis is a boring town, but it's pretty and a much cheaper place to live than the other two options. GW is the best school rankings-wise, but how much does this matter? Any guidance is much appreciated.

bchirco
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby bchirco » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:10 pm

Congrats on the full ride offer! :)

GW will not translate over to CA too well. Did you apply to UCLA/USC? Honestly, I would try to negotiate a scholly from Davis or Hastings. They are both comparable schools and if GW is throwing you that much money, the UCs should be offering something. Don't go without $$$.

If I were you, imo... UCLA>USC$>Hastings $$$> Davis $$$
Last edited by bchirco on Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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radar714
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby radar714 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:11 pm

if you got a full-ride to GWU you should have the #'s to be competitive at USC/UCLA no?

empyreanrrv
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby empyreanrrv » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:11 pm

What are your numbers? What is the cost of attendance for each school?

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cahwc12
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby cahwc12 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:14 pm

If you attend Davis and Hastings at sticker, you may as well use the student loan money to disappear in the philippines, because you'll end up in financial ruin either way. There aren't a lot of threads on here where one of the choices is a great option--usually they are BAD vs TERRIBLE vs LIFE-WRECKING. In your case, GW full ride, if you can go PT with that scholarship, is one of the few great choices for a law degree available to non-elite applicants.


Regardless of where you want to practice right now, GW PT for free if you can manage it is a deal you shouldn't pass up. If you don't want to go there though, you need to make other plans because none of the other schools you list are worth attending, and neither hastings nor davis is likely to give you a full ride amid massive state budget shortfalls.

Just to reiterate, I recommend VERY strongly considering GW full ride if you can enroll in the part-time program.

jennigun
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby jennigun » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:04 pm

Hey guys, thanks for the help. I have a 3.8, 168. I have read a lot about GW and it seems kind of like a crowded lawyer mill - I realize the school is better, but being somewhere that is comfortable is important to me. Will I be able to practice in California (bay area) without much trouble if I attend GW?

Unfortunately, you couldn't pay me enough money to move to Southern California. I am really not a fan, so ucla/USC are out.

I also am interested in International law (I used to live in Holland), so going to a school with an international reach is also important.

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Rahviveh
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby Rahviveh » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:07 pm

jennigun wrote:Hey guys, thanks for the help. I have a 3.8, 168. I have read a lot about GW and it seems kind of like a crowded lawyer mill - I realize the school is better, but being somewhere that is comfortable is important to me. Will I be able to practice in California (bay area) without much trouble if I attend GW?

Unfortunately, you couldn't pay me enough money to move to Southern California. I am really not a fan, so ucla/USC are out.

I also am interested in International law (I used to live in Holland), so going to a school with an international reach is also important.


You are underperforming badly if these are your only options. Did you apply to the T14?

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radar714
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby radar714 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:12 pm

jennigun wrote:Hey guys, thanks for the help. I have a 3.8, 168. I have read a lot about GW and it seems kind of like a crowded lawyer mill - I realize the school is better, but being somewhere that is comfortable is important to me. Will I be able to practice in California (bay area) without much trouble if I attend GW?

Unfortunately, you couldn't pay me enough money to move to Southern California. I am really not a fan, so ucla/USC are out.

I also am interested in International law (I used to live in Holland), so going to a school with an international reach is also important.


What about berkley? You should be competitive with those #'s

empyreanrrv
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby empyreanrrv » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:14 pm

If you don't want to go to GW and still want to practice in CA, you should retake. Hit 170+ and you are looking at Berkeley. Higher, and you get a shot at Harvard.

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cahwc12
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby cahwc12 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:19 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
jennigun wrote:Hey guys, thanks for the help. I have a 3.8, 168. I have read a lot about GW and it seems kind of like a crowded lawyer mill - I realize the school is better, but being somewhere that is comfortable is important to me. Will I be able to practice in California (bay area) without much trouble if I attend GW?

Unfortunately, you couldn't pay me enough money to move to Southern California. I am really not a fan, so ucla/USC are out.

I also am interested in International law (I used to live in Holland), so going to a school with an international reach is also important.


You are underperforming badly if these are your only options. Did you apply to the T14?


Even with better numbers, OP isn't going to get what s/he wants due to self-inflicted limiting factors.

The best deal on the table, even with admission to lower T14 would be GW-PT for free. But this precludes the possibility of working (easily) in norcal. GW-PT leaves OP debt free, whereas the 80-100k he's likely to get at UCLA/USC full-time will still leave him/her with close to $200k debt, and s/he already admits to not wanting anything to do with socal.


OP, you need to adjust your sights unless you plan to retake that 168 and apply to Stanford/Berkeley next cycle.

jennigun
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby jennigun » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:40 pm

I have applied to Stanford and Berkeley - haven't heard from the former, rejected by the latter. I am not planning to retake it, I am happy with my score and plan to attend this upcoming fall. I'm happy with where I have gotten in and my options, just having a tough time narrowing them down at this point.

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Rahviveh
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby Rahviveh » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:46 pm

jennigun wrote:I have applied to Stanford and Berkeley - haven't heard from the former, rejected by the latter. I am not planning to retake it, I am happy with my score and plan to attend this upcoming fall. I'm happy with where I have gotten in and my options, just having a tough time narrowing them down at this point.


You can retake in June and still attend this fall. A higher score could get you off some waitlists and net you more money from better schools.

jennigun
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby jennigun » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:47 pm

Also - a few have mentioned going to GW part time, why is that? The scholarship is 40,000 per year, full time.

jennigun
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby jennigun » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:53 pm

If I do choose to attend GW, will it make it more difficult to take the bar in CA?

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cahwc12
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby cahwc12 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:58 pm

jennigun wrote:Also - a few have mentioned going to GW part time, why is that? The scholarship is 40,000 per year, full time.


If you can negotiate or apply that scholarship to the part-time program (not sure how it works, but I'm sure it can be done), then you can work while attending. GW and GULC are the only two reputable law schools that have part-time programs, thus making them unique in their ability to help you manage debt.

Normally, when you attend law school for three years there is the opportunity cost of not being gainfully employed for three years (assuming you could get a job or are leaving a job). But because you can attend PT at GW/GULC, you can continue working and thus offset COL and at least partially offset tuition. This allows you to pay down debt much faster and in some cases not take on debt at all.

If you choose to attend GW, you are unlikely to become gainfully employed in CA. It's not a pipe dream, but it's closer to a pipe dream than a likely outcome. Your best bet is either retake and try again, or go to GW.

If you could get to 170 on your LSAT, you're suddenly looking at serious money from most of the T14 and legitimate shots at HS. That's just 2-3 questions better.


You could always keep the GW deal open and retake in June. If you can up your score a couple points in a couple months, then you could take a similar deal at almost any other school.

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Solistus
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby Solistus » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:34 pm

I would say that, while the prospects of a Norcal job out of GW are not great, they probably aren't all that much worse than the prospects at Davis or Hastings. GW is a substantially better-ranked school. And while he might be focused on Norcal or bust right now, he may have a different opinion if and when he graduates from Davis or Hastings loaded in debt, can't find a job anyway, and realizes he could have been debt-free in a decent job on the East Coast while putting out apps to Norcal firms.

OP, you're really shooting yourself in the foot with your aversion to So. Cal. You may want to rethink your priorities, because the goals of "work in California" and "go to school somewhere that isn't Southern California" are pretty much mutually exclusive if you don't have the numbers for Stanford or Berkeley. USC and UCLA are the natural targets based on your numbers and post-grad goals, so taking those two off the table hurts your options considerably. GW on full tuition is an amazing offer, and personally I would be thrilled to accept it, but it will make your path back to California more troublesome.

jennigun
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby jennigun » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:16 am

Thank you for all the advice, everyone - side note, I am a girl. No harm done :)

I am planning to stick with my options as they stand, I am still waiting to hear from Stanford, but it is a reach. I visited the UCD campus and really enjoyed it. I'm planning to visit GW next weekend, but it is a big decision for me - my friends, family, significant other, and dog (most important part) are all in nor cal. I know this is not a good reason to turn down a fantastic offer, however, it's hard for me to imagine going through the 3 hardest years of my educational career all the way across the country without a support system. That being said, I am still taking the GW offer seriously.

Is it difficult to get jobs/internships/externships/etc in D.C.? I feel the competition must be pretty stiff.
Can anyone who went to GW/lives in the DC area speak to what living in DC is like?

apollo2015
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby apollo2015 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:33 pm

jennigun wrote:I've narrowed my options down to Davis, Hastings, and GW (I haven't been offered merit-based aid at the first two schools).

Any advice or opinions on the schools? I know Davis is a boring town, but it's pretty and a much cheaper place to live than the other two options. GW is the best school rankings-wise, but how much does this matter? Any guidance is much appreciated.


Congratulations on the acceptance! I was in a similar situation and chose Hastings last year. I love it, and would recommend it.

Some questions to consider: If you choose Davis, would you be able to have free room and board at home? Would you be happy living at home for another three years? Are you extremely debt averse? Do you like the idea of living in San Francisco?

In regards to GW, I would say go there if you want to practice in Washington, but go to Hastings (or Davis) if you want to practice in Northern California.

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stuckinthemiddle
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby stuckinthemiddle » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:47 pm

I cannot believe OP isn't considering USC/UCLA. They bring him closer to his goals than any other school on his list.

Long-term. Think long-term.

timbs4339
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:19 am

stuckinthemiddle wrote:I cannot believe OP isn't considering USC/UCLA. They bring him closer to his goals than any other school on his list.

Long-term. Think long-term.


Right. OP, you have your whole career ahead of you. One year to retake the LSAT and get the 2-3 questions that might significantly change the course of your career or three years in Southern California is an investment worth making.

WhiskeynCoke
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby WhiskeynCoke » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:12 pm

I've narrowed my options down to Davis, Hastings, and GW (I haven't been offered merit-based aid at the first two schools).


The fact that you are actually considering attending Davis or Hastings at full sticker instead of taking a full-ride at GW reveals your shocking lack of research as to employment outcomes vs. debt burdens at these schools.

If I do choose to attend GW, will it make it more difficult to take the bar in CA?


You are worrying about the wrong things. Passing the bar is not your problem, it's landing a job and servicing your debt.

Will I be able to practice in California (bay area) without much trouble if I attend GW?

Unfortunately, you couldn't pay me enough money to move to Southern California. I am really not a fan, so ucla/USC are out.


I am not planning to retake it, I am happy with my score and plan to attend this upcoming fall. I'm happy with where I have gotten in and my options, just having a tough time narrowing them down at this point.


You won't be able to practice law in the Bay Area if you attend Davis or Hastings. OP, your head appears to be firmly and stubbornly planted in the sand and you are on the verge of perhaps making the worst decision of your life thus far. I live in SF and know 5 people who have attended Hastings at or close to full sticker and for four of them, it has been the biggest mistake of their lives (their words). Only one managed to land an actual lawyer job at a small firm, and it was through personal connections. This person is barely scraping by due to the enormous student loan payments due every month (~$2000).

- Hastings has terrible placement everywhere (~40% FT Legal), including the bay area. Over $200k of debt required.
- Davis has terrible placement everywhere, including the bay area. Over $200k of debt required.

How the hell is it that you're giving up your best chance of being able to practice law in CA (yes, the bay area included) by stubbornly refusing to apply to UCLA and USC due to some stupid NORCAL/SOCAL bullshit. People with your numbers (at/above both medians at UCLA/USC) have been getting HUGE scholly offers this cycle (like $90k). You are utterly squandering your numbers for NO REASON. Also, how are you not willing to at least attempt a retake with that 3.8 GPA? You're like the baby on the capital one commercials with Jimmy Fallon who doesn't like more money....

How about you do some actual research before ruining the rest of your life, huh?

jennigun
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby jennigun » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:31 am

Worst decision of my life - seems a little melodramatic.
Thanks for the advice - ish? I appreciate your opinion, however, money really isn't an issue for me, thanks to coming from a line of investment bankers. The original question is no longer an issue, since I was just accepted to Stanford. It is almost a little sad how irate some posters became - from someone who has travelled the world for 4 years (and is leaving on another around the world trip in 2 weeks), I have to say that law school is merely a means to an end, and where I live is an important factor in my decision - LA is an awful place. Good luck everyone - and thanks to those who provided constructive criticism.

PS I'm a lady, not a dude.

sfhaze
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby sfhaze » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:37 am

jennigun wrote:Worst decision of my life - seems a little melodramatic.
Thanks for the advice - ish? I appreciate your opinion, however, money really isn't an issue for me, thanks to coming from a line of investment bankers. The original question is no longer an issue, since I was just accepted to Stanford. It is almost a little sad how irate some posters became - from someone who has travelled the world for 4 years (and is leaving on another around the world trip in 2 weeks), I have to say that law school is merely a means to an end, and where I live is an important factor in my decision - LA is an awful place. Good luck everyone - and thanks to those who provided constructive criticism.

PS I'm a lady, not a dude.

Stanford Law School in Palo Alto, CA, USA?

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Nammertat
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby Nammertat » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:20 pm

jennigun wrote:Hey guys, thanks for the help. I have a 3.8, 168. I have read a lot about GW and it seems kind of like a crowded lawyer mill - I realize the school is better, but being somewhere that is comfortable is important to me. Will I be able to practice in California (bay area) without much trouble if I attend GW?

Unfortunately, you couldn't pay me enough money to move to Southern California. I am really not a fan, so ucla/USC are out.

I also am interested in International law (I used to live in Holland), so going to a school with an international reach is also important.


I'm currently at GW and am similarly looking at CA (SF/Bay area). It's definitely doable IF you're in IP, AND you're in the top 25%. With that being said, it's a gamble going that far east if you're not prepared to practice in DC in the event you don't do as well as you're expecting.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Davis v. Hastings v. George Washington?

Postby Dr. Dre » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:26 pm

don't go to TTT UC Davis/hastings




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