Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

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Ramius
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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby Ramius » Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:22 am

jvincent11 wrote:Coming from a New Yorker, Fordham Law is prestigious. Maybe not on this forum because of the obsession with T14, but there are more than 14 law schools in the country. Schools such as Fordham, BC, ND, GW are elite schools just not the best of the best.


Maybe a few people are "obsessed with T14," but most are just obsessed with getting jobs. I'd hardly call a $275k investment into a 50% chance of a worthwhile job elite. I'm not even talking about jobs that pay off the debt, we're talking straight desirable employment.

I'd call those schools reputable and a much better investment than the TJSLs and Cooleys of the world, but does that make them a sound investment?

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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby jvincent11 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:45 am

matthewsean85 wrote:
jvincent11 wrote:Coming from a New Yorker, Fordham Law is prestigious. Maybe not on this forum because of the obsession with T14, but there are more than 14 law schools in the country. Schools such as Fordham, BC, ND, GW are elite schools just not the best of the best.


Maybe a few people are "obsessed with T14," but most are just obsessed with getting jobs. I'd hardly call a $275k investment into a 50% chance of a worthwhile job elite. I'm not even talking about jobs that pay off the debt, we're talking straight desirable employment.

I'd call those schools reputable and a much better investment than the TJSLs and Cooleys of the world, but does that make them a sound investment?


Whether it's a sound investment has nothing to do with whether it's elite. In this market, the employment statistics at some elite schools just aren't as high people would like them to be. Elitism is based on relativity, not a set parameter.

I understand the major benefits of attending a T14, as I expect that is where I will end up (168 3.9+), but people on this forum treat schools in the 20-30s like they are complete garbage.

Do not compare Fordham to Cooley. Fordham is closer to Harvard than Cooley.

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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby 20141023 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:24 am

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Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby guano » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:28 am

kappycaft1 wrote:I would have made a thread like this only if I had been rejected by Fordam despite really wanting to go there. Just my 2 cents.

Which is the source of a surprisingly large amount of derp

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Ramius
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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby Ramius » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:23 am

jvincent11 wrote:
matthewsean85 wrote:
jvincent11 wrote:Coming from a New Yorker, Fordham Law is prestigious. Maybe not on this forum because of the obsession with T14, but there are more than 14 law schools in the country. Schools such as Fordham, BC, ND, GW are elite schools just not the best of the best.


Maybe a few people are "obsessed with T14," but most are just obsessed with getting jobs. I'd hardly call a $275k investment into a 50% chance of a worthwhile job elite. I'm not even talking about jobs that pay off the debt, we're talking straight desirable employment.

I'd call those schools reputable and a much better investment than the TJSLs and Cooleys of the world, but does that make them a sound investment?


Whether it's a sound investment has nothing to do with whether it's elite. In this market, the employment statistics at some elite schools just aren't as high people would like them to be. Elitism is based on relativity, not a set parameter.

I understand the major benefits of attending a T14, as I expect that is where I will end up (168 3.9+), but people on this forum treat schools in the 20-30s like they are complete garbage.

Do not compare Fordham to Cooley. Fordham is closer to Harvard than Cooley.


What is your definition of elite then? Big library? Top faculty? Nice campus?

These things might be a fringe benefit, but I'd rather go to law school in a cardboard box that gave me the best chance for employment over any of this. We can spend all day trying to define 'elite,' but for the sake of a professional school meant to get you a job in the field, why not just throw out the idea of relative elitism and look at it strictly as an investment in both time and money?

I wasn't trying to compare Fordham to Cooley at all (notice I referred to them as reputable prior to discussing Cooley?), and in reality I'm not saying Fordham is a bad choice if you're going with a substantial scholarship. I'm mostly calling out that taking the time to define what are and are not elite law schools is pointless. It's all about being a sound financial investment.

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jvincent11
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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby jvincent11 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:35 am

matthewsean85 wrote:
jvincent11 wrote:
matthewsean85 wrote:
jvincent11 wrote:Coming from a New Yorker, Fordham Law is prestigious. Maybe not on this forum because of the obsession with T14, but there are more than 14 law schools in the country. Schools such as Fordham, BC, ND, GW are elite schools just not the best of the best.


Maybe a few people are "obsessed with T14," but most are just obsessed with getting jobs. I'd hardly call a $275k investment into a 50% chance of a worthwhile job elite. I'm not even talking about jobs that pay off the debt, we're talking straight desirable employment.

I'd call those schools reputable and a much better investment than the TJSLs and Cooleys of the world, but does that make them a sound investment?


Whether it's a sound investment has nothing to do with whether it's elite. In this market, the employment statistics at some elite schools just aren't as high people would like them to be. Elitism is based on relativity, not a set parameter.

I understand the major benefits of attending a T14, as I expect that is where I will end up (168 3.9+), but people on this forum treat schools in the 20-30s like they are complete garbage.

Do not compare Fordham to Cooley. Fordham is closer to Harvard than Cooley.


What is your definition of elite then? Big library? Top faculty? Nice campus?

These things might be a fringe benefit, but I'd rather go to law school in a cardboard box that gave me the best chance for employment over any of this. We can spend all day trying to define 'elite,' but for the sake of a professional school meant to get you a job in the field, why not just throw out the idea of relative elitism and look at it strictly as an investment in both time and money?

I wasn't trying to compare Fordham to Cooley at all (notice I referred to them as reputable prior to discussing Cooley?), and in reality I'm not saying Fordham is a bad choice if you're going with a substantial scholarship. I'm mostly calling out that taking the time to define what are and are not elite law schools is pointless. It's all about being a sound financial investment.


I agree with everything you said. My point was the bad market for lawyers the past few years that resulted in lower employment statistics for Fordham Law does not change the fact that it is an elite law school for those pursuing the NYC market. It's very possible that there are more Fordham Law Alum in NYC BigLaw than any other school

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romothesavior
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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby romothesavior » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:33 pm

You've got a pretty broad definition of elite. I don't even think most of the students at Fordham would call it elite. Its a strong NYC regional school. Its not elite unless you stretch the word elite beyond its ordinary meaning.

And uhh... Columbia? NYU? You don't think they have more NYC alumni?

law2015
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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby law2015 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:42 pm

LOL at Fordham being elite. It is a decent school and thats it.

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Ramius
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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby Ramius » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:54 pm

jvincent11 wrote:I agree with everything you said. My point was the bad market for lawyers the past few years that resulted in lower employment statistics for Fordham Law does not change the fact that it is an elite law school for those pursuing the NYC market. It's very possible that there are more Fordham Law Alum in NYC BigLaw than any other school



It's cool, I like making broad, vague statements without backing them up too. It's also very possible that there are more Liberty fans than Knicks fans in NYC.

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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby rad lulz » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:01 pm

toothbrush wrote:
froglee wrote:
Dmini7 wrote:So.. What is the point of this thread? Are we praising them, or hating on them? Also a 25% chance is not that bad at big law compared to other schools.


Do I look like praising that school? And frankly, does those "praises" mean anything more statistics? Yea, sure, compared to toilet law schools, 25% chances aren't that bad. But compared to casinos....nahhhh

Their #s are what they are. It's nothing like going to a casino. And you don't NEED big law.

If you don't want to go to Fordham then don't. They are ranked accordingly with their job prospects for big law taken into account.

They aren't a t14, but hey, that's what t30 gets you.

If you take out the amount of debt you need to take out to attend Fordham (incredibly stingy), then ya, you're pretty much gonna need biglaw or something equivalent.

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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby 09042014 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:08 pm

There are exactly three elite law schools.

The best of the rest are the t14. Fordham is a regional school. There is a reason 75 percent can't get a decent legal jerb from it.

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Ramius
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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby Ramius » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:26 pm

I hear they're the most elite law school on 60th St if that means anything.

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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby star fox » Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:16 pm

Fordham and its peers qualify as reputable, strong regional schools. Definitely not "elite". What a broad use for that term. There's not a need for a gazillion lawyers so there's not 30 "elite law schools". They were doing really well but have really taken a hit post-recession. Considering these schools charge as much as T14s they are becoming increasingly bad investments. Sadly, for so many students these are their "dream/reach school" and they are just hoping that their decent gpa and alright LSAT will get them to the ability to pay sticker at places like this.

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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby lukertin » Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:22 pm

jvincent11 wrote:Coming from a New Yorker, Fordham Law is prestigious. Maybe not on this forum because of the obsession with T14, but there are more than 14 law schools in the country. Schools such as Fordham, BC, ND, GW are elite schools just not the best of the best.

Then by the definition of elite, they are not elite.

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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:57 pm

Fordham is an elite school like Joe Flacco is an elite quarterback.

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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby froglee » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:12 pm

UCLA and Georgetown's biglaw job placements are pretty lame too. They are Top 14s

And Austin, a flagship regional law school, biglaw placement is like 16%. Hell, to me, there is no difference between 5% and 16%, both are big gambles.

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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby Bronck » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:16 pm

froglee wrote:UCLA and Georgetown's biglaw job placements are pretty lame too. They are Top 14s

And Austin, a flagship regional law school, biglaw placement is like 16%. Hell, to me, there is no difference between 5% and 16%, both are big gambles.


UCLA is a T14? News to me

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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby pedestrian » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:22 pm

froglee wrote:UCLA and Georgetown's biglaw job placements are pretty lame too. They are Top 14s

And Austin, a flagship regional law school, biglaw placement is like 16%. Hell, to me, there is no difference between 5% and 16%, both are big gambles.


Georgetown's poor employment prospects inspired the shift to "T13" in many corners of TLS. Then they had to go be annoying and bump up to 13. :roll:

UCLA was never T14.

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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:38 pm

pedestrian wrote:
froglee wrote:UCLA and Georgetown's biglaw job placements are pretty lame too. They are Top 14s

And Austin, a flagship regional law school, biglaw placement is like 16%. Hell, to me, there is no difference between 5% and 16%, both are big gambles.


Georgetown's poor employment prospects inspired the shift to "T13" in many corners of TLS. Then they had to go be annoying and bump up to 13. :roll:

UCLA was never T14.

--ImageRemoved--

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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby pedestrian » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:46 pm

A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A wrote:
pedestrian wrote:
froglee wrote:UCLA and Georgetown's biglaw job placements are pretty lame too. They are Top 14s

And Austin, a flagship regional law school, biglaw placement is like 16%. Hell, to me, there is no difference between 5% and 16%, both are big gambles.


Georgetown's poor employment prospects inspired the shift to "T13" in many corners of TLS. Then they had to go be annoying and bump up to 13. :roll:

UCLA was never T14.

--ImageRemoved--


I stand corrected.

Although I'm not sure that 1987 was a canonical year... I need a lawyer.

09042014
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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby 09042014 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:10 pm

T14 isn't picked by USNEWS bros.

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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:22 pm

Desert Fox wrote:T14 isn't picked by USNEWS bros.

Don't they pick this every year?

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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:27 pm

pedestrian wrote:
A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A wrote:
pedestrian wrote:
Georgetown's poor employment prospects inspired the shift to "T13" in many corners of TLS. Then they had to go be annoying and bump up to 13. :roll:

UCLA was never T14.

--ImageRemoved--


I stand corrected.

Although I'm not sure that 1987 was a canonical year... I need a lawyer.


It looks like it was the first year and then they didn't release another ranking until 1990.

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=202743
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=213

09042014
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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby 09042014 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:29 pm

A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:T14 isn't picked by USNEWS bros.

Don't they pick this every year?


If they put ASU at number ten, it's still not T14. T14 is an internet thing and it's set in stone.

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Re: Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame....

Postby A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:07 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:T14 isn't picked by USNEWS bros.

Don't they pick this every year?


If they put ASU at number ten, it's still not T14. T14 is an internet thing and it's set in stone.


Do you think that the internet is behind the consistent ranking of top 14 in USNWR?




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