Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

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maxwell400
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Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby maxwell400 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:08 pm

So I kind of don't want to graduate law school with huge amounts of debt. I got into a bunch of good schools, including Columbia, but they're not giving me too much money. On the other hand, I can get a full ride plus $10,000 a year from the Illinois Institute of Technology law school. Am I dumb for considering this offer?

K Rock
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby K Rock » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:10 pm

maxwell400 wrote:Am I dumb for considering this offer?


Yes.

I can understand not wanting to pay full price at columbia, but you must have some option that is in-between these two. If you want Chicago and got into Columbia, surely you have a decent scholarship offer at UIUC?

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:14 pm

Yes, attending Kent would be crazy. If you are in to Columbia you should be able to go to a T20-50 school for free, and if you can get an offer like that in a region where you want to practice it may be worth picking over Columbia (check my posts I have tried to a contribute a lot of information on this topic).

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mephistopheles
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby mephistopheles » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:16 pm

wut

maxwell400
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby maxwell400 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:20 pm

Thanks for the reality check. Do you guys have any tips on getting money out of schools? I'd love to be able to do UCLA for free.

09042014
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:24 pm

Depending on what you want to do, and what other offers you get, this isn't necessarily as bad of a choice as people are making it out to be. Where else did you apply? What kind of law, and at what type of employer do you want to do it?

K Rock
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby K Rock » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:25 pm

maxwell400 wrote:Thanks for the reality check. Do you guys have any tips on getting money out of schools? I'd love to be able to do UCLA for free.


Where do you want to work? Hopefully you have your applications in by now. You should be getting decent offers from schools based on your numbers, if they are good enough to get into Columbia. Use any offers you have to leverage more money at peer schools. (Your offer at Kent is not going to impress anyone at UCLA.) If for example you got a ton of money at USC, but not a lot at UCLA, you would then tell UCLA about your USC offer and then ask for more money.

maxwell400
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby maxwell400 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:27 pm

I'm leaning towards biglaw IP, but to be honest, I don't really have any idea what kind of law I'm interested in. I'm also in at NYU, Duke, Cornell, UCLA, USC, UC Irvine, UT Austin, and Minnesota. Still waiting on others. The only rejection I've gotten so far was from Berkeley :cry:

I did get pretty significant money from UC Irvine. They're saying something like $50k a year. Can I use that to leverage UCLA and USC?

09042014
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:28 pm

maxwell400 wrote:I'm leaning towards biglaw IP, but to be honest, I don't really have any idea what kind of law I'm interested in. I'm also in at NYU, Duke, Cornell, UCLA, USC, UC Irvine, UT Austin, and Minnesota. Still waiting on others. The only rejection I've gotten so far was from Berkeley :cry:

I did get pretty significant money from UC Irvine. They're saying something like $50k a year. Can I use that to leverage UCLA and USC?


What is your undergrad major bro?

maxwell400
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby maxwell400 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:30 pm

Have a double major in math and psych.

I think I want to be somewhere in California, just cause of the weather. This is probably a pretty bad reason to choose where to spend much of my life, but I've been in Chicago for a few years now and I can't stand the weather.

09042014
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:42 pm

maxwell400 wrote:Have a double major in math and psych.

I think I want to be somewhere in California, just cause of the weather. This is probably a pretty bad reason to choose where to spend much of my life, but I've been in Chicago for a few years now and I can't stand the weather.


Math and pysch aren't the best degrees for IP, so if you are going to get a biglawl IP job, you'll have to go to a good school. That probably means avoiding schools like Kent.

You should see if UCLA/USC or any of the lower T14 gives you cash. If not, Columbia probably is the right choice.

On a side note, the last two years in Chicago have been amazing compared to average weather in Chicago. We haven't had a real winter since 2010-11.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby rickgrimes69 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:24 pm

maxwell400 wrote:Have a double major in math and psych.


Math and Psych are going to be tough to leverage into IP. Neither qualifies you to sit the patent bar. http://patbar.com/uspto-patent-bar-exam ... ents.shtml

PRgradBYU
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby PRgradBYU » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:00 am

FLAME.

maxwell400
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby maxwell400 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:45 am

rickgrimes69 wrote:
maxwell400 wrote:Have a double major in math and psych.


Math and Psych are going to be tough to leverage into IP. Neither qualifies you to sit the patent bar. http://patbar.com/uspto-patent-bar-exam ... ents.shtml


Does that make it impossible?

P.S. My school offers no engineering major of any kind. Would that affect my eligibility at all? The only two majors that my school offers that are on that list are physics and biology.

timbs4339
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:07 pm

maxwell400 wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:
maxwell400 wrote:Have a double major in math and psych.


Math and Psych are going to be tough to leverage into IP. Neither qualifies you to sit the patent bar. http://patbar.com/uspto-patent-bar-exam ... ents.shtml


Does that make it impossible?


Close to it. You only get a hiring bump into IP if you are patent bar eligible (i.e. a hard science DEGREE). Otherwise you have to take the same route as political science majors- so get a job at a biglaw firm with a strong soft IP group and hope you can get on IP matters. Kent is not getting you there- I believe the editor in chief of their law review was unemployed at one point close to graduation. You should come back when you've negotiated money at other schools with a better list of options.

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romothesavior
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby romothesavior » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:13 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Depending on what you want to do, and what other offers you get, this isn't necessarily as bad of a choice as people are making it out to be. Where else did you apply? What kind of law, and at what type of employer do you want to do it?

I agree. No debt at all (or like 20-30k) would be really nice, and you would have complete flexibility with your career. But if your goal is biglaw, you should forget about it from Kent. It's not a biglaw powerhouse, has little flexibility, and Chicago is getting slaughtered right now.

But I do think there has to be some middle ground here.

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romothesavior
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby romothesavior » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:15 pm

PRgradBYU wrote:FLAME.

I'm not going to put up with this anymore. Calling people a flame/troll in on-topic threads when there is no evidence whatsoever of flame or troll is going to stop, or timeouts will ensue.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:16 pm

If you got into Columbia, I would be very surprised if other T14 schools lower in the rankings did not offer you scholarships. If you did get scholarship from those schools, you can use them to try and get Columbia to give you some $$.

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stratocophic
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby stratocophic » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:17 pm

DFms right. You aren't working in IP without going to an elite school, and no they won't care what majors your undergrad offered.

20141023
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby 20141023 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:40 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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smaug_
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby smaug_ » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:53 pm

romothesavior wrote:
PRgradBYU wrote:FLAME.

I'm not going to put up with this anymore. Calling people a flame/troll in on-topic threads when there is no evidence whatsoever of flame or troll is going to stop, or timeouts will ensue.


How about this: point to anyone getting aid info back from Columbia this early. OP claims "they're not giving me too much money"-implying that he has a financial aid offer, but it's before the normal aid cycle for anything outside of the named scholarship. Maybe I'm wrong and they got these things out faster this year/to other people in years past, but that alone should be enough to make you question the legitimacy of the thread.

Moreover, the entire discussion is utterly asinine.

So, "no evidence whatsoever" seems pretty hyperbolic.

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romothesavior
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby romothesavior » Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:01 pm

I don't think a person is automatically crazy to consider this. You really can't see why someone might want to graduate with 30k in law school debt vs. 250k+ (maybe closer to 300k)?

Yes, Columbia is a far better school, and after hearing OP's goals I'd say it better aligns with those goals. But I could absolutely see a situation where someone might prefer a T2 for free (not just a full-ride in this case, but also a stipend) vs. Columbia at over a quarter of a million dollars in non-dischargeable debt. Sometimes I think people on this site really underestimate just how much dough that is. If someone lands biglaw but is out after a couple of years (very, very common in NYc), then it could take well over a decade to pay that money back.

I do think there is a middle ground to be had here, certainly. I'm sure OP could get some full-rides at T1s and maybe even big scholarship money to T14s. I'd recommend that over Kent.

But the notion that someone is automatically trolling because their question doesn't comport exactly with the TLS conventional wisdom is not fair to the people posting here. Folks often come here to ask genuine questions about real situations they facing, and as long as they're not being rude, ridiculous, or out of control in some way, I think we owe them a little bit of respect.

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JamesDean1955
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby JamesDean1955 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:03 pm

I seriously question the legitimacy of this thread.

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smaug_
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby smaug_ » Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:08 pm

romothesavior wrote:I don't think a person is automatically crazy to consider this. You really can't see why someone might want to graduate with 30k in law school debt vs. 250k+ (maybe closer to 300k)?


I don't think the idea is crazy, but the discussion of it is asinine. As you pointed out, it pretty much would boil down to "Do you want Biglaw" or probably more realistically "Which do you prefer, an 80ish% chance at biglaw with massive debt or a 66% chance of getting a legal job with a free degree?"

But, between the discussion of California, the IP distraction and other random/missing details, I still say that the discussion is asinine and that OP is flame.

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Bill
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Re: Columbia Full Price vs Kent-IIT Free + $10k?

Postby Bill » Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:12 pm

Pick Columbia.




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