Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

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bfigsan
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Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby bfigsan » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:09 am

I know this thread must exist somewhere, but I got frustrated trying to find it. I've recently been accepted at both schools, and am having a hard time choosing one over the other. What most concerns me is that many current NYU students as well as one graduate have told me that students at Columbia are "miserable" compared to those at NYU.

Is this mostly institutional rivalry, an exaggeration, or does it hold a grain of truth? I'd love to hear from some current Columbia students or recent grads.

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Borg
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby Borg » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:34 am

I considered both of them and think that the only major difference between the two is public interest placement. My sense was that NYU has a lot of support for PI careers, but students who are interested in it at Columbia are kind of out on their own. I doubt there is a major difference between them in terms of lifestyle, although NYU is in a better neighborhood. If you want to do corporate I'd recommend Columbia because it has a slightly better placement rate, but it's tough to tell how much of that is the result of self selection out of firm work at NYU.

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redsoxfan2495
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby redsoxfan2495 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:11 am

bfigsan wrote:many current NYU students... have told me that students at Columbia are "miserable" compared to those at NYU.
:roll:

CLS 2L here. Go to both ASW's, get a feel for both schools, and decide. That's really the best way to feel out the schools' cultures and see where you'd be more comfortable.

spyke123
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby spyke123 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:20 am

bfigsan wrote:I know this thread must exist somewhere, but I got frustrated trying to find it. I've recently been accepted at both schools, and am having a hard time choosing one over the other. What most concerns me is that many current NYU students as well as one graduate have told me that students at Columbia are "miserable" compared to those at NYU.

Is this mostly institutional rivalry, an exaggeration, or does it hold a grain of truth? I'd love to hear from some current Columbia students or recent grads.


I bet if you talk to Columbia students they would tell you NYU students are miserable...

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CG614
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby CG614 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:42 am

1Ls at both schools are miserable. I am a CLS 3L. I think the only way you are miserable at CLS is if you cannot manage your time. In that case, you would be miserable at NYU too. I've had an overwhelmingly positive experience at Columbia and love the actual campus feel you get in NYC. Go to both ASWs and check them out. If you are like me, you'll love them both but one will feel more "right."
Last edited by CG614 on Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

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JamesDean1955
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby JamesDean1955 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:43 am

redsoxfan2495 wrote:
bfigsan wrote:many current NYU students... have told me that students at Columbia are "miserable" compared to those at NYU.
:roll:

CLS 2L here. Go to both ASW's, get a feel for both schools, and decide. That's really the best way to feel out the schools' cultures and see where you'd be more comfortable.


^^ This, assuming cost is the same. Otherwise go to the one that gives you the higher scholarship, unless you deem the scholarship difference is worth the intangible benefits you perceive after going to each schools ASW (I really think that most people would tell you $10,000.00/year is about the maximum they would pass up to go to the one they like more). It really doesn't get much more simpler than that OP.

I've always been perplexed at how people find the NYU vs. CLS decision hard. It's like deciding USC vs. UCLA, or BU vs. BC.

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quiver
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby quiver » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:49 am

I agree with everyone above. I'm not sure why NYU students think they know how all (or even a majority) of CLS students feel. Definitely visit both schools if you have the chance. In addition, ask admissions to be put in touch with current CLS/NYU students. Alternatively, you could just PM some of the CLS/NYU people on TLS.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:05 pm

1L at CLS here. Definitely not miserable.

Between the two I'd go to the one that offers more money.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:08 pm

I did get a feeling that CLS was a little more uptight and NYU was a little more laid back, and that appealed to me, but it was also based on really limited interactions. Now I'm at NYU and I think I probably overestimated the distinction.

I do think, though, that the NYU public interest focus is a real thing. I doubt it means NYU's ability to place people in public interest jobs is much greater, but I do think its reputation as being hospitable to PI people does create a slightly more progressive element in the student body. CLS struck me as extremely corporate-heavy and somewhat preppier. I mean like 95% of students were like that as opposed to 90% at NYU. It's not a huge difference and for the average biglaw-interested 0L it's probably not even a bad thing.

Ultimately, I think that whatever impressions you get about the schools themselves at the ASW programs is probably irrelevant and mainly just PR, in that they both have great faculties and enough extracurriculars, journals, etc. to get involved in whatever you like.

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Sheffield
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby Sheffield » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:11 pm

“Ivy.” Intangible enough?

Big Dog
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby Big Dog » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:15 pm

^^Exactly. (C would just love to replace H in HYS.)

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banjo
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby banjo » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:36 pm

Seems like CLS made the B- optional. Maybe a student can confirm? If so, that might be a tiny nudge uptown, as I think NYU still has a 4-8% B- target.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:39 pm

banjo wrote:Seems like CLS made the B- optional. Maybe a student can confirm? If so, that might be a tiny nudge uptown, as I think NYU still has a 4-8% B- target.

Confirmed.

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JamesDean1955
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby JamesDean1955 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:40 pm

Keep in mind, though, that if you're trying to determine which school has a better quality of life/happier students (if there is even a big difference), ASW may not be your best bet. At ASW, current students are trying to impress you and everyone is on their best behavior.

Most ASW's have social mixers with current students at a bar or whatnot. That's probably the best chance you have to get honest opinions. Or at least that's what I found when I went to ASW's back when I was applying in a different app cycle.

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Bronck
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby Bronck » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:48 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:1L at CLS here. Definitely not miserable.

Between the two I'd go to the one that offers more money.

bfigsan
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby bfigsan » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:02 pm

Thanks for all the posts. I'm going to Columbia two weeks from now and will visit NYU too, though I can't attend either ASW because I can't take more time off of work. I definitely plan to talk to students while in NYC. Thanks especially to the current students who replied. I might PM one of you for more info!

timbs4339
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby timbs4339 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:10 pm

TLDR; go wherever you get more money. If the money is the same walk around the Village and Morningside for a few hours each and figure out where you'd feel more comfortable spending three years.

Take those opinions with a grain of salt. God knows I had many dislikes about Columbia (well-chronicled on this forum), but the one that I certainly did not agree with was that students were more likely to be aspie, miserable, hyper-competitive, corporate drones, etc etc. compared to NYU students. The schools recruit from the same group of hyperachievers and well-credentialed people, most of whom will go into biglaw. You'd have to look very hard to find a difference between the student bodies and it's hard to separate out confirmation bias from actual, tangible distinctions. IMHO, its hard to peg down where these stereotypes even began- it could have been the musings of some student on a law school discussion forum in 2004 that's become common wisdom by virtue of just being repeated each admissions cycle.

I found the public interest office was MUCH more helpful in the job search than the general career services office, but that might be because OCS is so bad. The students my year signed a petition blasting the public interest office for various problems, so you'll want to ask PI oriented people how well the school has addressed those concerns.

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ph5354a
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby ph5354a » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:42 pm

Interested in this as well... Obviously going visit both, but I'm definitely living off campus, so it's morningside heights/Harlem vs. as close as I could live to nyu, which is probably Brooklyn. Anybody have any ideas/ suggestions/ broadsweeping generalizations about off campus living at each school?

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby Doorkeeper » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:51 pm

1) Whichever gives you more money
2) Preference after ASW visits
3) Uptown/Downtown Manhattan preference
4) Edge to Columbia if you want biglaw
5) Edge to NYU if you want to do PI
5) Slight edge to NYU if you want clerkship or teaching in the future (But neither school is a great choice for either)

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izy223
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby izy223 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:57 pm

ph5354a wrote:Interested in this as well... Obviously going visit both, but I'm definitely living off campus, so it's morningside heights/Harlem vs. as close as I could live to nyu, which is probably Brooklyn. Anybody have any ideas/ suggestions/ broadsweeping generalizations about off campus living at each school?



really depends where you want to to live, Im a NYer and withdrew from CLS when i got into NYU bec i knew I would not want to live in morning-side heights (hate uptown). If your willing to spend around 1500 a month you can get a nice small two bedroom in the east village which is just a great place to live. I personally live off campus in NYU (though i live quite close) and I love it, the village is just amazing place, and theres so many bars food etc around that you literally never have to leave, i dont know if its the same for morningside.

ETA: Do not make a mistake and withdraw before both give scholly $$ when it came to negotiating with NYU a CLS acceptance (or money) would've gotten me further then the lower acceptances.

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ph5354a
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby ph5354a » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:05 pm

izy223 wrote:
ph5354a wrote:Interested in this as well... Obviously going visit both, but I'm definitely living off campus, so it's morningside heights/Harlem vs. as close as I could live to nyu, which is probably Brooklyn. Anybody have any ideas/ suggestions/ broadsweeping generalizations about off campus living at each school?



really depends where you want to to live, Im a NYer and withdrew from CLS when i got into NYU bec i knew I would not want to live in morning-side heights (hate uptown). If your willing to spend around 1500 a month you can get a nice small two bedroom in the east village which is just a great place to live. I personally live off campus in NYU (though i live quite close) and I love it, the village is just amazing place, and theres so many bars food etc around that you literally never have to leave, i dont know if its the same for morningside.

ETA: Do not make a mistake and withdraw before both give scholly $$ when it came to negotiating with NYU a CLS acceptance (or money) would've gotten me further then the lower acceptances.


Thanks! I'm interested to know more about where you live in the village --do you share a two bedroom? My budget is $1,500, but I just assumed it wasn't possible to live anywhere in Downtown Manhattan for that amount. If it is...that would make my decision a little easier.

dissonance1848
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby dissonance1848 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:12 pm

Go to whichever gives you more money.

If neither gave you money, you should go to CLS.

PI is damn hard to get, harder than Biglaw.

Also, if you bother looking at the stats, CLS outperforms NYU for biglaw (in NYC).

If you look at the NLJ250 stats beginning in 2005, CLS beats NYU.

If you look at the Greedy Associates site, CLS beats out NYU for top NYC firms.

If you look at NLJ250 for Class of 2011, CLS is 51%, while NYU is 40%. WTF.

If you look at NLJ250 for Class of 2012, CLS also out guns NYU by a bit at the top NYC firms, even though their aggregate NLJ250 scores are the same.

Unless you are PI nuts, go to CLS.

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izy223
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby izy223 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:26 pm

ph5354a wrote:
izy223 wrote:
ph5354a wrote:Interested in this as well... Obviously going visit both, but I'm definitely living off campus, so it's morningside heights/Harlem vs. as close as I could live to nyu, which is probably Brooklyn. Anybody have any ideas/ suggestions/ broadsweeping generalizations about off campus living at each school?



really depends where you want to to live, Im a NYer and withdrew from CLS when i got into NYU bec i knew I would not want to live in morning-side heights (hate uptown). If your willing to spend around 1500 a month you can get a nice small two bedroom in the east village which is just a great place to live. I personally live off campus in NYU (though i live quite close) and I love it, the village is just amazing place, and theres so many bars food etc around that you literally never have to leave, i dont know if its the same for morningside.

ETA: Do not make a mistake and withdraw before both give scholly $$ when it came to negotiating with NYU a CLS acceptance (or money) would've gotten me further then the lower acceptances.


Thanks! I'm interested to know more about where you live in the village --do you share a two bedroom? My budget is $1,500, but I just assumed it wasn't possible to live anywhere in Downtown Manhattan for that amount. If it is...that would make my decision a little easier.


sure my budget is a little higher 1800 and i found a great two bedroom downt he block from NYU however i was looking in the east village so by first and second ave and saw lots of walkups 2 bedrooms for 3k. if your willing to live by Ave A which may leave a 15-20 min walk to school you can even get a big 2 bedroom for that price

If you join the NYU listserve (after you put your deposit so this may not help you in your school search) ppl place their old apartments on there all the time for ppl to take over their lease and most are around 28-3200 for a two bedroom

shtickel
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby shtickel » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:10 pm

Newbie here.
If i want to practice tax law at Biglaw, which is better? Consensus seems to be that, all things being equal, CLS is a bit better, especially for Biglaw. However, I know NYU has a great tax program. Thoughts?

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Columbia vs. NYU (the intangibles)

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:26 pm

shtickel wrote:Newbie here.
If i want to practice tax law at Biglaw, which is better? Consensus seems to be that, all things being equal, CLS is a bit better, especially for Biglaw. However, I know NYU has a great tax program. Thoughts?

Probably doesn't matter much. NYU's tax LLM program is tops, and you can take classes as a JD student with the same profs, so that's nice, but I'm sure CLS has good faculty as well. Practicing tax in a biglaw firm mainly is just a matter of getting a biglaw job at a firm that has a sizable tax practice and I don't think NYU's tax reputation would have any substantial impact on your ability to get that kind of job in the first place.




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