NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

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09042014
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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby 09042014 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:43 pm

JCougar wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:Aren't paralegals also counted in the ABA stats?


That wouldn't fall into the JD Required category.


When they list what type of employer they do not list if they require JD.

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Rahviveh
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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby Rahviveh » Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:44 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
JCougar wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:Aren't paralegals also counted in the ABA stats?


That wouldn't fall into the JD Required category.


When they list what type of employer they do not list if they require JD.

Right I saw on another blog that people employed in 100+ lawyer firms might be paralegals. I wasn't sure if it was a real concern with the data. My uneductaed guess is that big firms wouldn't hire paralegals with a JD on their resume?

09042014
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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby 09042014 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:50 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
JCougar wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:Aren't paralegals also counted in the ABA stats?


That wouldn't fall into the JD Required category.


When they list what type of employer they do not list if they require JD.

Right I saw on another blog that people employed in 100+ lawyer firms might be paralegals. I wasn't sure if it was a real concern with the data. My uneductaed guess is that big firms wouldn't hire paralegals with a JD on their resume?


People always say firms do, but I've never heard of it actually happen. I think staff attorney is more likely.

I'd guess the difference is a combination of

1) People at 101-160 person firms that NALP doesn't count
2) Under reporting on Nalp
3) Staff attorney

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JCougar
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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby JCougar » Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:51 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
JCougar wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:Aren't paralegals also counted in the ABA stats?


That wouldn't fall into the JD Required category.


When they list what type of employer they do not list if they require JD.

Right I saw on another blog that people employed in 100+ lawyer firms might be paralegals. I wasn't sure if it was a real concern with the data. My uneductaed guess is that big firms wouldn't hire paralegals with a JD on their resume?


I don't think this would ever happen. Hiring them as a staff attorney, perhaps.

NYstate
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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby NYstate » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:01 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
JCougar wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:Aren't paralegals also counted in the ABA stats?


That wouldn't fall into the JD Required category.


When they list what type of employer they do not list if they require JD.

Right I saw on another blog that people employed in 100+ lawyer firms might be paralegals. I wasn't sure if it was a real concern with the data. My uneductaed guess is that big firms wouldn't hire paralegals with a JD on their resume?

Maybe your are thinking of firms that hire staff attorneys to do discovery, etc at secondary offices,like Dayton Ohio or West Virginia? These are JD jobs but they pay nowhere near market.

LRGhost
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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby LRGhost » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:54 pm

NYstate wrote:Maybe your are thinking of firms that hire staff attorneys to do discovery, etc at secondary offices,like Dayton Ohio or West Virginia? These are JD jobs but they pay nowhere near market.


Staff attorney will also include doc review in NYC, etc.

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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby rad lulz » Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:39 pm

LRGhost wrote:
NYstate wrote:Maybe your are thinking of firms that hire staff attorneys to do discovery, etc at secondary offices,like Dayton Ohio or West Virginia? These are JD jobs but they pay nowhere near market.


Staff attorney will also include doc review in NYC, etc.

It shouldn't. Those people are employed by a doc review agency usually, not by the firm. They aren't usually on staff.

09042014
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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby 09042014 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:55 pm

rad lulz wrote:
LRGhost wrote:
NYstate wrote:Maybe your are thinking of firms that hire staff attorneys to do discovery, etc at secondary offices,like Dayton Ohio or West Virginia? These are JD jobs but they pay nowhere near market.


Staff attorney will also include doc review in NYC, etc.

It shouldn't. Those people are employed by a doc review agency usually, not by the firm. They aren't usually on staff.


According to JDU you do doc review while at big firm (not employed by the firm) and they might hire you as staff attorney directly. Basically you are a doc reviewer, but get paid a salary. Sometimes they are called "project attorney."

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jenesaislaw
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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby jenesaislaw » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:58 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
JCougar wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:Aren't paralegals also counted in the ABA stats?


That wouldn't fall into the JD Required category.


When they list what type of employer they do not list if they require JD.

Right I saw on another blog that people employed in 100+ lawyer firms might be paralegals. I wasn't sure if it was a real concern with the data. My uneductaed guess is that big firms wouldn't hire paralegals with a JD on their resume?



Yes, this is the case with the ABA and NALP data, but not the NLJ 250 data. The NLJ 250 data include any type of associate, including staff attorneys. The ABA and NALP data for law firms of X size reflect only the type of the employer, not the type of job.

Also, paralegals are JD Advantage -- which points to the weakness in this category, although only about 300 class of 2011 grads from ABA-approved schools were paralegals or administrative assistants. This is about 6% of all JDA jobs.

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JCougar
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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby JCougar » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:12 pm

Thanks. So even the NLJ 250 data would include all the staff attorneys Orrick is sticking in Wheeling, West Virginia?

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Rahviveh
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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby Rahviveh » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:18 pm

Hate to be neurotic, but how common is the staff attorney outcome IYO (at a T14?)? I realize no one can answer this question with any precision.

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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby rad lulz » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:39 pm

I know a dude not a T14 but at a similar school (think USC/UCLA/Tex/Vandy) who got offered a staff atty position at a big firm. It's at one of the offices, not at an Orrick style center in West VA.

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06102016
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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby 06102016 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:58 pm

..

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JCougar
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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby JCougar » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:59 pm

slack_academic wrote:
rad lulz wrote:I know a dude not a T14 but at a similar school (think USC/UCLA/Tex/Vandy) who got offered a staff atty position at a big firm. It's at one of the offices, not at an Orrick style center in West VA.

What does staff attorney entail?


Document review, document review, document review, and you can never make partner. And they pay you a lot less.

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Samara
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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby Samara » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:02 pm

slack_academic wrote:
rad lulz wrote:I know a dude not a T14 but at a similar school (think USC/UCLA/Tex/Vandy) who got offered a staff atty position at a big firm. It's at one of the offices, not at an Orrick style center in West VA.

What does staff attorney entail?

There some eye-opening stories on here explaining what that entails. I forget the one dude's username or I would link some of them.

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06102016
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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby 06102016 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:14 pm

..

rad lulz
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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby rad lulz » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:16 pm

JCougar wrote:
slack_academic wrote:
rad lulz wrote:I know a dude not a T14 but at a similar school (think USC/UCLA/Tex/Vandy) who got offered a staff atty position at a big firm. It's at one of the offices, not at an Orrick style center in West VA.

What does staff attorney entail?


Document review, document review, document review, and you can never make partner. And they pay you a lot less.

Not necessarily. It means different things at different firms. This guy will be doing similar work to associates, but I'd expect with more grunt work that the firm doesn't want to bill at a high rate. He's not a document review drone.

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JCougar
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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby JCougar » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:33 pm

rad lulz wrote:
JCougar wrote:
slack_academic wrote:
rad lulz wrote:I know a dude not a T14 but at a similar school (think USC/UCLA/Tex/Vandy) who got offered a staff atty position at a big firm. It's at one of the offices, not at an Orrick style center in West VA.

What does staff attorney entail?


Document review, document review, document review, and you can never make partner. And they pay you a lot less.

Not necessarily. It means different things at different firms. This guy will be doing similar work to associates, but I'd expect with more grunt work that the firm doesn't want to bill at a high rate. He's not a document review drone.


Well, given that even associates still do some document review, I'm not sure what other grunt work there is that takes up a big chunk of time. Maybe going through stacks of deposition transcripts? Anything research-related they have to be giving to the associates.

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JCougar
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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby JCougar » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:39 pm

slack_academic wrote:Any lateral mobility as a staff attorney, or is it just as dead end as your standard doc review gig?


I have no idea regarding this. My guess is that if you're really good at what you do. in some exceptional circumstances, you might get bumped up to associate--but you're not going to get a lot of opportunities to prove yourself when all you get handed is busywork.

The legal industry permanently sorts people out by "ability" before you even have a chance to show your ability. My guess is that there's a lot of people that will look down their nose at someone with "staff attorney" on their resume...even if it's at a big firm. You're branded with a scarlet letter before you even get a chance to prove your worth.

froglee
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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby froglee » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:25 pm

I am calling out Boston College and Boston U. I thought Boston College supposed to have a better reputation than Boston U. But both school's placement rates in NLJ250 firms are at 21%. This rate is crap.


Columbia U.s NLJ250 placement rate ranks number 3(53%), but they have such a large student body(460 people!!). I bet many of them are jobless.

shntn
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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby shntn » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:38 pm

froglee wrote:I am calling out Boston College and Boston U. I thought Boston College supposed to have a better reputation than Boston U. But both school's placement rates in NLJ250 firms are at 21%. This rate is crap.


Columbia U.s NLJ250 placement rate ranks number 3(53%), but they have such a large student body(460 people!!). I bet many of them are jobless.

Eh...

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Davidbentley
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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby Davidbentley » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:34 am

froglee wrote:I am calling out Boston College and Boston U. I thought Boston College supposed to have a better reputation than Boston U. But both school's placement rates in NLJ250 firms are at 21%. This rate is crap.


Columbia U.s NLJ250 placement rate ranks number 3(53%), but they have such a large student body(460 people!!). I bet many of them are jobless.

This gave me a late 90s wrestling vibe. I imagine you standing in a ring with the NALP report and a folding chair refusing to leave until BU and BC come out to face you. Damn, SummerSlam is gonna fucking rock.

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hume85
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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby hume85 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:42 am

shntn wrote:
froglee wrote:I am calling out Boston College and Boston U. I thought Boston College supposed to have a better reputation than Boston U. But both school's placement rates in NLJ250 firms are at 21%. This rate is crap.


Columbia U.s NLJ250 placement rate ranks number 3(53%), but they have such a large student body(460 people!!). I bet many of them are jobless.

Eh...


He's a budding troll still trying to find his groove or an ESL student with down syndrome.

Informative
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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby Informative » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:58 pm

21% isn't crap. It may not be what you want it to be, but look at the list. BC and BU are two of the best schools you can go to outside of the T14 if you want biglaw according to that list (along with GW, Fordham, UCLA/USC, Vandy, UT). And you are calling them out? These schools are all decent schools that give you a shot at biglaw. If you're dropping to the 15-30 range, you have to settle for the fact that you have to do well to get biglaw.

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guano
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Re: NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012

Postby guano » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:04 pm

froglee wrote:I thought Boston College supposed to have a better reputation than Boston U.

you thought wrong




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