Emory/Arizona State/GW/UGA/UNC - PhD in Bio, IP Law

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
eljefe_dy
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:14 pm

Re: Emory/Arizona State/GW/UGA/UNC - PhD in Bio, IP Law

Postby eljefe_dy » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:44 pm

I'm basically down to two choices:
GW at sticker Vs. UGA at about 10k/yr in tuition + expenses. The difference in COA will be ~130k lower at UGA over three years.

I'd like to know.... with my background, how much of a difference would UGA vs. GW be in terms of employment prospects (Patent prosecution at a boutique/big law)?

User avatar
Ned Racine
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:54 pm

Re: Emory/Arizona State/GW/UGA/UNC - PhD in Bio, IP Law

Postby Ned Racine » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:56 pm

I am literally facing the exact same decision. Very interested in any perspectives.

User avatar
deuceindc
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:11 pm

Re: Emory/Arizona State/GW/UGA/UNC - PhD in Bio, IP Law

Postby deuceindc » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:08 pm

My understanding is that GW won't help you outside of DC. Yeah, it's a good IP school but you'll get a serviceable IP education anywhere. Plus, you'll learn way more by working two summers than GW would possibly teach you in the 3-4 IP classes you'd actually take. Out side of DC/VA, you're probably better off at a regional school with money than paying sticker at GW.

eljefe_dy
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:14 pm

Re: Emory/Arizona State/GW/UGA/UNC - PhD in Bio, IP Law

Postby eljefe_dy » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:09 am

deuceindc wrote:My understanding is that GW won't help you outside of DC. Yeah, it's a good IP school but you'll get a serviceable IP education anywhere. Plus, you'll learn way more by working two summers than GW would possibly teach you in the 3-4 IP classes you'd actually take. Out side of DC/VA, you're probably better off at a regional school with money than paying sticker at GW.


DC being (one of the) the biggest market for IP law would be a consideration for GW, even if GW places well only in DC. I think GW has better national reach than UGA.
I guess I can phrase my question in another way. Would I have similar outcomes at the PLIP regardless of whether I attend GW or UGA?

User avatar
deuceindc
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:11 pm

Re: Emory/Arizona State/GW/UGA/UNC - PhD in Bio, IP Law

Postby deuceindc » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:30 am

eljefe_dy wrote:
deuceindc wrote:My understanding is that GW won't help you outside of DC. Yeah, it's a good IP school but you'll get a serviceable IP education anywhere. Plus, you'll learn way more by working two summers than GW would possibly teach you in the 3-4 IP classes you'd actually take. Out side of DC/VA, you're probably better off at a regional school with money than paying sticker at GW.


DC being (one of the) the biggest market for IP law would be a consideration for GW, even if GW places well only in DC. I think GW has better national reach than UGA.
I guess I can phrase my question in another way. Would I have similar outcomes at the PLIP regardless of whether I attend GW or UGA?


GW might have "better" national reach, but it's still just a regional school. If this thread is still about secondary-market school with discount vs GW at sticker, I wouldn't go to GW if you want that market.

I don't know anything about PLIP w/r/t school reputation, but with good grades I'd bet you'd do fine there from either. I'd bet that UGA has a big advantage over GW at SIPJF, too.

User avatar
J-e-L-L-o
Posts: 418
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Emory/Arizona State/GW/UGA/UNC - PhD in Bio, IP Law

Postby J-e-L-L-o » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:41 am

deuceindc wrote:My understanding is that GW won't help you outside of DC. Yeah, it's a good IP school but you'll get a serviceable IP education anywhere. Plus, you'll learn way more by working two summers than GW would possibly teach you in the 3-4 IP classes you'd actually take. Out side of DC/VA, you're probably better off at a regional school with money than paying sticker at GW.


LOL such fail in this. 3-4 classes of IP?

http://www.law.gwu.edu/Academics/curric ... es/IP.aspx

Decreasing debt is nice, but you have to balance career opportunities from the cheaper school. Also keep in mind regardless of prelaw credentials, grades matter the most. The better schools recruiters reach down further in the class for interviews and callbacks. GW is a NATIONAL IP POWERHOUSE that sends grads everywhere including Silicon Valley.

Someone has no clue what they are talking about.

User avatar
J-e-L-L-o
Posts: 418
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Emory/Arizona State/GW/UGA/UNC - PhD in Bio, IP Law

Postby J-e-L-L-o » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:00 pm

--LinkRemoved--

these are the courses that are offered at UGA. Not a lot. Would the OP be looked at differently from GW vs UGA. Yes. The PhD is a nice plus but the IP legal training at GW will be far above UGA. Emory will be the better contender for a more robust legal training including IP. Litigation also plays to the better schools vs prosecution.

That said, I think OP can use the PhD to an advantage of getting a IP job out of UGA focusing on the Southern IP career fair.

User avatar
BlueJeanBaby
Posts: 630
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: Emory/Arizona State/GW/UGA/UNC - PhD in Bio, IP Law

Postby BlueJeanBaby » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:06 pm

eljefe_dy wrote:I'm basically down to two choices:
GW at sticker Vs. UGA at about 10k/yr in tuition + expenses. The difference in COA will be ~130k lower at UGA over three years.

I'd like to know.... with my background, how much of a difference would UGA vs. GW be in terms of employment prospects (Patent prosecution at a boutique/big law)?


$130k is a HUGE difference. Between these two options, I would say UGA ALL day (but I am debt adverse and attending UGA so color me biased) but if Emory's COA isn't much higher than UGA, I'd choose Emory over UGA for your situation.

User avatar
Ned Racine
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:54 pm

Re: Emory/Arizona State/GW/UGA/UNC - PhD in Bio, IP Law

Postby Ned Racine » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:41 pm

UGA does have an IP journal (the oldest) and IP Law Society for whatever that's worth.

User avatar
deuceindc
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:11 pm

Re: Emory/Arizona State/GW/UGA/UNC - PhD in Bio, IP Law

Postby deuceindc » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:50 pm

J-e-L-L-o wrote:
deuceindc wrote:My understanding is that GW won't help you outside of DC. Yeah, it's a good IP school but you'll get a serviceable IP education anywhere. Plus, you'll learn way more by working two summers than GW would possibly teach you in the 3-4 IP classes you'd actually take. Out side of DC/VA, you're probably better off at a regional school with money than paying sticker at GW.


LOL such fail in this. 3-4 classes of IP?

http://www.law.gwu.edu/Academics/curric ... es/IP.aspx

Decreasing debt is nice, but you have to balance career opportunities from the cheaper school. Also keep in mind regardless of prelaw credentials, grades matter the most. The better schools recruiters reach down further in the class for interviews and callbacks. GW is a NATIONAL IP POWERHOUSE that sends grads everywhere including Silicon Valley.

Someone has no clue what they are talking about.


You're out of your mind if you take all 44 credits on that page. You wouldn't even have time, unless you stayed for an LLM. Yes, GW offers more classes in IP. Yes, GW is the better IP school (not even close). But to drop an extra 130k for a GW degree over a UGA degree when you want to work in Atlanta is questionable at best.

Agent
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:03 pm

Re: Emory/Arizona State/GW/UGA/UNC - PhD in Bio, IP Law

Postby Agent » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:57 pm

+1.

deuceindc wrote:Yes, GW is the better IP school (not even close). But to drop an extra 130k for a GW degree over a UGA degree when you want to work in Atlanta is questionable at best.

Agent
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:03 pm

Re: Emory/Arizona State/GW/UGA/UNC - PhD in Bio, IP Law

Postby Agent » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:58 pm

I recommend giving this factor very little weight.

Ned Racine wrote:UGA does have an IP journal (the oldest) and IP Law Society for whatever that's worth.

User avatar
Ned Racine
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:54 pm

Re: Emory/Arizona State/GW/UGA/UNC - PhD in Bio, IP Law

Postby Ned Racine » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:23 pm

Agent wrote:I recommend giving this factor very little weight.

Ned Racine wrote:UGA does have an IP journal (the oldest) and IP Law Society for whatever that's worth.


Yep.. but seems like we're giving very little weight to "# of IP courses" as well, so just wanted to expand on IP-related stuff at UGA in general.

User avatar
deuceindc
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:11 pm

Re: Emory/Arizona State/GW/UGA/UNC - PhD in Bio, IP Law

Postby deuceindc » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:29 pm

Ned Racine wrote:
Agent wrote:I recommend giving this factor very little weight.

Ned Racine wrote:UGA does have an IP journal (the oldest) and IP Law Society for whatever that's worth.


Yep.. but seems like we're giving very little weight to "# of IP courses" as well, so just wanted to expand on IP-related stuff at UGA in general.


You don't need international and comparative copyright law to file and prosecute a domestic patent application. Hell, just pass the patent bar and you'll know how to do that. GWU's classes are only useful if you're going to need them to get the job you want - if that's the case, then go.

Through the lens of patent prosecution, saving 130k at UGA, and the endgame being Atlanta, I'd still take UGA over GWU.

User avatar
J-e-L-L-o
Posts: 418
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Emory/Arizona State/GW/UGA/UNC - PhD in Bio, IP Law

Postby J-e-L-L-o » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:39 pm

deuceindc wrote:
J-e-L-L-o wrote:
deuceindc wrote:My understanding is that GW won't help you outside of DC. Yeah, it's a good IP school but you'll get a serviceable IP education anywhere. Plus, you'll learn way more by working two summers than GW would possibly teach you in the 3-4 IP classes you'd actually take. Out side of DC/VA, you're probably better off at a regional school with money than paying sticker at GW.


LOL such fail in this. 3-4 classes of IP?

http://www.law.gwu.edu/Academics/curric ... es/IP.aspx

Decreasing debt is nice, but you have to balance career opportunities from the cheaper school. Also keep in mind regardless of prelaw credentials, grades matter the most. The better schools recruiters reach down further in the class for interviews and callbacks. GW is a NATIONAL IP POWERHOUSE that sends grads everywhere including Silicon Valley.

Someone has no clue what they are talking about.


You're out of your mind if you take all 44 credits on that page. You wouldn't even have time, unless you stayed for an LLM. Yes, GW offers more classes in IP. Yes, GW is the better IP school (not even close). But to drop an extra 130k for a GW degree over a UGA degree when you want to work in Atlanta is questionable at best.


And you would be out of your mind to not take more than 4 courses at a school that offers over 10 (of varying credit hrs) if you are a student focusing on IP. That's like saying someone interested in corporate law will only take "3 to 4 classes related to business" in law school. No one said you have to take all of them. I was just proving that you will not "just" take 3-4 classes in a strong IP curriculum.

I then made a separate post that said the OP should be ok staying local and focusing on the Southern IP career fair. Just because you focus on a market..doesn't mean you will get it. Still go to Loyola and bid accordingly.

Carry on

Agent
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:03 pm

Re: Emory/Arizona State/GW/UGA/UNC - PhD in Bio, IP Law

Postby Agent » Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:09 pm

Sorry, to be clear, I do agree that it's worth keeping in mind. And I would give it much less weight than # of IP courses offered.

Ned Racine wrote:
Agent wrote:I recommend giving this factor very little weight.

Ned Racine wrote:UGA does have an IP journal (the oldest) and IP Law Society for whatever that's worth.


Yep.. but seems like we're giving very little weight to "# of IP courses" as well, so just wanted to expand on IP-related stuff at UGA in general.

splittinghairs
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:56 pm

Re: Emory/Arizona State/GW/UGA/UNC - PhD in Bio, IP Law

Postby splittinghairs » Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:38 am

deuceindc wrote:The better schools recruiters reach down further in the class for interviews and callbacks. GW is a NATIONAL IP POWERHOUSE that sends grads everywhere including Silicon Valley.


And you would be out of your mind to not take more than 4 courses at a school that offers over 10 (of varying credit hrs) if you are a student focusing on IP. That's like saying someone interested in corporate law will only take "3 to 4 classes related to business" in law school. No one said you have to take all of them. I was just proving that you will not "just" take 3-4 classes in a strong IP curriculum.


So much crap being spilled I don't even know where to begin.

GW is a powerhouse in IP based on what? Sheer presence of GW grads that do IP? Sheer size of DC IP market? the 10 classes of IP offered?

Think about which of these offered reasons actually make a difference on whether DC recruiters actually will go deeper in the class for a GW grad compared with ATL firm would for a UGA grad. I say theres absolutely no evidence that is the case, certainly not enough to cost 130 grand.

As I said before, number of IP classes or IP curriculum makes no difference because by the time you are taking those classes, you should be interviewing or even received offers by then. It's all about 1L Grades, IP eligibility, your specific major or PHD (ie is it CS, EE, engineering, bio-chem etc). Everything else including classes, TIGER whatever, IP journal, IP society do not affect getting a 2L SA. They might slightly contribute to making you better prepared for that 2L SA that you might have lined up, but I seriously doubt that the types of classes you take has any discernable difference on the way you will practice. Law schools generally don't teach you how to practice law. You know what people who have 2L SA lined up are taking during 2L and 3L? they are coasting through as many family law, legal theory classes as they can, no one takes "business" law to prepare for their Summer Associateship.

The sheer size of the DC IP market only matters if you think that you will have less opportunities applying at the secondary IP market. Well its pretty well-known that there are way more patent eligibles who are targeting DC as well. The HUGE presence of GW students or grads that do IP may actually work against you, because more IP eligible students means more competition so it would lower any advantage gained by a larger IP market. The ultimate question to ask is which option would have the lowest proportion of patent eligible 1L students in that market versus the total number of IP firms Therefore, its not as simple as pick the largest IP market and you will definitely get better chances at IP jobs there. If that were the case then people should flock to Santa Clara Law for IP because look they have a great IP curriculum (OMG 10 IP classes and ranked #3 in the country in IP better than GW's IP ranking) and the silicon Valley/ Bay area IP market is HUGE. Santa Clara Law is an IP POWERHOUSE. You see how flawed that is?

I cannot say precisely whether the respective local IP firms will reach deeper at GW than at UGA. What I do know is the reasons that some people have cited to suggest that GW is better in this regard are totally flawed. The best way is actually talk to IP grads in person from the respective schools and try to find out what types of 1L grades makes that person competitive for IP firms. However, when you do talk to them you also need to be skeptical about some claims because most students tend to exaggerate their schools. However, keep in mind that the difference would have to be significant to be worth an extra $130 K. You can look at other threads and see what 130k should be worth in terms of extra placement, personally it would take at least hiring 30% deeper in the class to be worth that much to me. GW IP offers no way close to 30% of an advantage over UGA if there is even an advantage at all.

User avatar
J-e-L-L-o
Posts: 418
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Emory/Arizona State/GW/UGA/UNC - PhD in Bio, IP Law

Postby J-e-L-L-o » Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:54 pm

Well lets try a lil 'xplainin.

first off, that was my quote. But you didn't include the quote that was a reference too...someone claimed GW is a regional school. For IP it is DEF not.

splittinghairs wrote:
GW is a powerhouse in IP based on what?


Because they place Patent eligible students everywhere? SF/SV, LA, Boston, DC... find the top 20 firms in IP and count the number of GW grads NATIONALLY.

Think about which of these offered reasons actually make a difference on whether DC recruiters actually will go deeper in the class for a GW grad compared with ATL firm would for a UGA grad.


One, I never said anything about DC. Once again your calling GW a regional school for IP which it is not. Two, targeting only one market w/o a backup is asinine.

I've personally pm'd GW students to find out about its placement power and I have been rest assured that the above is true. With the right credentials students getting 10-20 interviews. But in defense I never said go there for the OP. I was pointing out to another poster that GW is not a regional school and that they do not have only 4-5 classes in IP.

I then said that with a PhD, OP would be ok at UGA. OP never revealed if they wanted prosecution or litigation. Different outcomes that require different grades.

Earlier in the thread someone mentioned that he knew someone that was no offered. It happens. You have to make sure you attend the right school that will give you what you want in the end.

Agent
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:03 pm

Re: Emory/Arizona State/GW/UGA/UNC - PhD in Bio, IP Law

Postby Agent » Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:03 pm

Splittinghairs didn't quote me anywhere, but I'll reply anyway.

GW is a powerhouse in IP based on what? Sheer presence of GW grads that do IP? Sheer size of DC IP market? the 10 classes of IP offered?

Think about which of these offered reasons actually make a difference on whether DC recruiters actually will go deeper in the class for a GW grad compared with ATL firm would for a UGA grad. I say theres absolutely no evidence that is the case, certainly not enough to cost 130 grand.

^ Although I again agree that they're not worth $130k, I can certainly see them making a difference.


As I said before, number of IP classes or IP curriculum makes no difference because by the time you are taking those classes, you should be interviewing or even received offers by then.

^ I expect that many recruiters and interviewers know what kind of IP-specific development opportunities you'll have available during 2L and 3L at schools as different as GWU and UGA. Then again, I have no idea whether they care.


It's all about 1L Grades, IP eligibility, your specific major or PHD (ie is it CS, EE, engineering, bio-chem etc). Everything else including classes, TIGER whatever, IP journal, IP society do not affect getting a 2L SA.

^ I generally agree (although you should say "technical background", which includes WE, rather than "specific major"). That said, I'll defend the notion that activities and opportunities play some role in many hiring decisions, especially for non-EEs and bio students w/o advanced degrees. We could probably have an entire thread about this.


They might slightly contribute to making you better prepared for that 2L SA that you might have lined up, but I seriously doubt that the types of classes you take has any discernable difference on the way you will practice. Law schools generally don't teach you how to practice law.

^ Agreed.


You know what people who have 2L SA lined up are taking during 2L and 3L? they are coasting through as many family law, legal theory classes as they can, no one takes "business" law to prepare for their Summer Associateship.

^ No comment.


The sheer size of the DC IP market only matters if you think that you will have less opportunities applying at the secondary IP market. Well its pretty well-known that there are way more patent eligibles who are targeting DC as well. The HUGE presence of GW students or grads that do IP may actually work against you, because more IP eligible students means more competition so it would lower any advantage gained by a larger IP market. The ultimate question to ask is which option would have the lowest proportion of patent eligible 1L students in that market versus the total number of IP firms Therefore, its not as simple as pick the largest IP market and you will definitely get better chances at IP jobs there. If that were the case then people should flock to Santa Clara Law for IP because look they have a great IP curriculum (OMG 10 IP classes and ranked #3 in the country in IP better than GW's IP ranking) and the silicon Valley/ Bay area IP market is HUGE. Santa Clara Law is an IP POWERHOUSE. You see how flawed that is?

^ Mostly agree. But I'll add that I think some students (e.g., strong networkers) stand to gain more by attending a school that exists in a large market and boasts a large number of alumni in their target practice area.


I cannot say precisely whether the respective local IP firms will reach deeper at GW than at UGA. What I do know is the reasons that some people have cited to suggest that GW is better in this regard are totally flawed. The best way is actually talk to IP grads in person from the respective schools and try to find out what types of 1L grades makes that person competitive for IP firms. However, when you do talk to them you also need to be skeptical about some claims because most students tend to exaggerate their schools. However, keep in mind that the difference would have to be significant to be worth an extra $130 K. You can look at other threads and see what 130k should be worth in terms of extra placement, personally it would take at least hiring 30% deeper in the class to be worth that much to me.

^ Agreed.


GW IP offers no way close to 30% of an advantage over UGA if there is even an advantage at all.

^ No comment.

bluebubble05
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:57 am

Re: Emory/Arizona State/GW/UGA/UNC - PhD in Bio, IP Law

Postby bluebubble05 » Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:18 pm

Because they place Patent eligible students everywhere? SF/SV, LA, Boston, DC... find the top 20 firms in IP and count the number of GW grads NATIONALLY.


having students working at firms in different markets does not make a school a national powerhouse in anything. If that were the case, then We should call ND grads and Michigan national powerhouse in biglaw placement. Some schools have more migratory student body, obviously state schools won't have anyone in the other markets.

your calling GW a regional school for IP which it is not.

GW is a regional school PERIOD. Doing IP doesnt make a regional school national.

Two, targeting only one market w/o a backup is asinine.

Going to a regional school with the impression that it is a national powerhouse is asinine.
Yes its always good to have backups, but any perceived difference in national placement between two regional schools can mostly be attributed to self-selection and not "national" reach. Its not like going to UGA will take away backups such as applying to Loyola patent fair or applying as a patent eligible student at places where you had ties.

The most important factor by far is the local placement ability at the relative schools, which means what is GW's placement in DC and what is UGA's placement in ATL. This is not to suggest that its impossible to get to other markets from these schools, its just that the ability to get to other markets is dependent on factors that do not have to do with either school's "national" reach. The ability to get to backup markets are highly dependent on things like patent eligibility and ties to the targeted markets, which have nothing to do with the schools themselves. Don't pay 130k extra in order to go to GW for its "national" reach.

Agent
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:03 pm

Re: Emory/Arizona State/GW/UGA/UNC - PhD in Bio, IP Law

Postby Agent » Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:50 pm

And FWIW, I don't think GWU students can participate in the SIPJF.

Which Schools Can Participate?

Accredited law schools in the southeastern region of the US (as defined by NALP) are automatically invited to participate in this fair.

Currently, the southeastern region is defined as West Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, Kentucky, Arkansas, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Puerto Rico, Texas and Oklahoma.

source

GWU = Mid-Atlantic Region




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BrainsyK, Google [Bot], MSNbot Media, packerboy31489, Yahoo [Bot] and 2 guests