New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 TODAY

[Big Dog]

Unfortunately, even if you were a 501(c)(3), I am pretty sure people wouldn't be able to deduct $20 they gave you for a shirt (maybe they could deduct $20 - the FMV of the shirt) for the same reason that you don't get to deduct the price of T-shirt you buy at the museum store of a non-profit museum.

Correct.

Also, I think that if you were selling T-shirts, depending on how substantial a part of your activities it was, you could be taxed on it because it would be unrelated business income (if you are a 501(c)(3)).

Correct again. (You might also have to collect and remit local sales tax.)

[jenesaislaw]

Yeah, it helps a ton that I'm a programmer. Without it, it'd be a lot slower I think.

First of all, let me just say LST Score Reports is the best thing since slice bread.

Secondly, if the school funded jobs aren't counted among in the employment score with an asterix, do you generally place it in the under-employment category?

Thanks for creating something cool, much respect.

Thanks, we appreciate it.

There are four kinds of school-funded jobs. (1) Long term, full time; (2) long term, part time; (3) short term, full time; (4) short term, part time.

(2) - (4) count towards the Underemployment Score because they are either part time or short term (or both). (1) does not count towards the underemployment score because we do not know whether it is underemployment -- there are types of long-term, full-time jobs that should count in the Employment Score. And that's why the long-term, full-time jobs don't get deducted from the Employment Score.

Do you have your 501(c)(3)? On your website I only see that you are incorporated as a non-profit. Unfortunately, even if you were a 501(c)(3), I am pretty sure people wouldn't be able to deduct $20 they gave you for a shirt (maybe they could deduct $20 - the FMV of the shirt) for the same reason that you don't get to deduct the price of T-shirt you buy at the museum store of a non-profit museum. That's probably why giving people free items upon donation was suggested instead. Also, I think that if you were selling T-shirts, depending on how substantial a part of your activities it was, you could be taxed on it because it would be unrelated business income (if you are a 501(c)(3)).

I realize I should've said earlier that I don't intend to provide legal advice. I have done pro bono transactional work for non-profits. PM me if you would like more info or to get in touch with the people who do this.

You're right that we couldn't charge $20 for the shirts without the sale proceeds being unrelated business income. We'd have to give it away free with a much larger donation, say $75 or $100. Likewise for a water bottle or mug, we'd probably need to be in the $25 or $50 range.

One argument I am curious about is whether it would be related business income if the purpose of the sale is to expand the brand reach of LST. I can't imagine this argument working because any nonprofit could argue that logo'd merchandise serves their mission by doing that.

Anyhow, we actually have pro bono legal services because I did a fellowship with a nonprofit that does transactional work for non-profits -- perhaps you did work for a sister organization of the one I worked for (Pro Bono Partnership of Atlanta). I do appreciate the offer, however.

[rad lulz]

Bump

[star fox]

I'm more excited this than to receive my dings from my pending Law Schools.

[rad lulz]

I'm more excited this than to receive my dings from my pending Law Schools.

You should be. Because then you can feel smug when those law schools that dinged you have shitty employment numbers.

[Aroldis105]

Does the "Public Service Score" include only JD needed jobs or is it any PI position? I assume the answer to this question would also prompt or negate the question of whether the PSS score is part of or separate from the "Employment Score".

Thanks.

[BlueJeanBaby]

tag

[jenesaislaw]

Does the "Public Service Score" include only JD needed jobs or is it any PI position? I assume the answer to this question would also prompt or negate the question of whether the PSS score is part of or separate from the "Employment Score".

Thanks.

It includes any long-term, full-time job in government or public interest. It does not distinguish between legal and non-legal jobs. As such, it is separate from the Employment Score.

[Aroldis105]

Does the "Public Service Score" include only JD needed jobs or is it any PI position? I assume the answer to this question would also prompt or negate the question of whether the PSS score is part of or separate from the "Employment Score".

Thanks.

It includes any long-term, full-time job in government or public interest. It does not distinguish between legal and non-legal jobs. As such, it is separate from the Employment Score.

Thank you. To clarify, if one were to add the two numbers together (Public Service Score & Employment Score) there would be no double counting of students?

[Rahviveh]

Does the "Public Service Score" include only JD needed jobs or is it any PI position? I assume the answer to this question would also prompt or negate the question of whether the PSS score is part of or separate from the "Employment Score".

Thanks.

It includes any long-term, full-time job in government or public interest. It does not distinguish between legal and non-legal jobs. As such, it is separate from the Employment Score.

Thank you. To clarify, if one were to add the two numbers together (Public Service Score & Employment Score) there would be no double counting of students?

You probably shouldn't add them together. There's a reason why they aren't already in the employment score.

[Aroldis105]

Does the "Public Service Score" include only JD needed jobs or is it any PI position? I assume the answer to this question would also prompt or negate the question of whether the PSS score is part of or separate from the "Employment Score".

Thanks.

It includes any long-term, full-time job in government or public interest. It does not distinguish between legal and non-legal jobs. As such, it is separate from the Employment Score.

Thank you. To clarify, if one were to add the two numbers together (Public Service Score & Employment Score) there would be no double counting of students?

You probably shouldn't add them together. There's a reason why they aren't already in the employment score.

Understandable. But as someone very interested in PI, I just want to get the most complete understanding that I can via LST. For the majority of TLSers I'm sure the PSS is as irrelevant as the number of grads who are left handed, but for many, PI is the reason to go to law school.
@jenesaislaw Feel free to intervene and correct me if the PSS is somehow an undesirable outcome even for those looking at PI.

[jenesaislaw]

There is nothing undesirable about the Public Service Score. It is simply a measure of how many people are in long-term, full-time public service jobs. Some will be lawyer jobs, some will not. For example, my job as LST's executive director counts under the PSS and I think it's a pretty sweet job, despite not being a job that requires bar passage.

However, you cannot aggregate the PSS and the Employment Score. This would double count every lawyer in public service jobs.

Take Michigan as an example: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=michigan

Michigan's Emp. Score is 75.5%. This means that 75.5% of its 2011 graduates were employed in long-term, full-time lawyer (bar passage required) jobs.

Its PSS is 18.5% because that's the percentage of its 2011 graduates who had full-time, long-term jobs working for a public interest employer or the government.

As it turns out, 68 out of 79 graduates in public interest jobs were bar-required jobs: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... &show=NALP. If these 68 graduates were all in long-term, full-time jobs (can't tell for sure), aggregating the two score would overstate the total by 18%.

[jenesaislaw]

There's a reason why they aren't already in the employment score.

Just to be extra clear, some of the jobs are in the employment score. Some are not, but it's not because they're not good jobs -- in fact, if they're long-term, full-time jobs they're probably pretty decent all things considered, it's just that some of the Public Service jobs are not lawyer jobs and the ES is about lawyering.

[CR2012]

Bump

Also, is the "Non-Discounted Cost" on LST calculated using 9 months living expenses or the full 12 months?

On some school's websites they only estimate the cost for 9 months.

Thanks

[Crowing]

Now that the useless rankings have come we can switch to waiting in anticipation of some meaningful data.

[togepi]

Now that the useless rankings have come we can switch to waiting in anticipation of some meaningful data.

Wish the timing were different. Everyone will have already chosen their law school by the time they come out

[rad lulz]

LST yall should really hype it up and release leaks slowly a couple days before. Build some anticipation.

[Gunnar Stahl]

Now that the useless rankings have come we can switch to waiting in anticipation of some meaningful data.

[BigZuck]

Now that the useless rankings have come we can switch to waiting in anticipation of some meaningful data.

Wish the timing were different. Everyone will have already chosen their law school by the time they come out

For some reason I had it in my mind that it would be mid-March when schools released this data. No?

[jenesaislaw]

Also, is the "Non-Discounted Cost" on LST calculated using 9 months living expenses or the full 12 months?

On some school's websites they only estimate the cost for 9 months.

Uses 9 months because that's what's used by the gov't to determine the maximum amount you're allowed to borrow. I do think some schools inflate this number to cover the additional 3 months though.

Now that the useless rankings have come we can switch to waiting in anticipation of some meaningful data.

+1

LST yall should really hype it up and release leaks slowly a couple days before. Build some anticipation.

I expect to release the Score Reports within just a few hours of having all of the data, so there really wouldn't be much time for leaking.

[rad lulz]

LST yall should really hype it up and release leaks slowly a couple days before. Build some anticipation.

I expect to release the Score Reports within just a few hours of having all of the data, so there really wouldn't be much time for leaking.

Stage a contest where you offer a bag of pistachios to the person who can most accurately guess the percentage of FT/LT school funded jobs among each of the top 25 or so schools?

[BigZuck]

While we are waiting I think we should turn this into a rad lulz answers questions thread. You know, to pass the time.

First question:

Rad, sometimes I get the sense that the only three things you love in this world are law school transparency, romothesavior, and snark. Why is that?

[Gunnar Stahl]

SHOTS FIRED

[BigZuck]

SHOTS FIRED

Lol, I was just kidding.

Still not sure what this thread is for though.

[Gunnar Stahl]

SHOTS FIRED

Lol, I was just kidding.

Still not sure what this thread is for though.

As as counterpoint to the us news derp thread