New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 TODAY

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Big Dog
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby Big Dog » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:10 am

Unfortunately, even if you were a 501(c)(3), I am pretty sure people wouldn't be able to deduct $20 they gave you for a shirt (maybe they could deduct $20 - the FMV of the shirt) for the same reason that you don't get to deduct the price of T-shirt you buy at the museum store of a non-profit museum.


Correct.

Also, I think that if you were selling T-shirts, depending on how substantial a part of your activities it was, you could be taxed on it because it would be unrelated business income (if you are a 501(c)(3)).


Correct again. (You might also have to collect and remit local sales tax.)

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jenesaislaw
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby jenesaislaw » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:00 pm

thand42292 wrote:
jenesaislaw wrote:Yeah, it helps a ton that I'm a programmer. Without it, it'd be a lot slower I think.


First of all, let me just say LST Score Reports is the best thing since slice bread.

Secondly, if the school funded jobs aren't counted among in the employment score with an asterix, do you generally place it in the under-employment category?

Thanks for creating something cool, much respect.


Thanks, we appreciate it.

There are four kinds of school-funded jobs. (1) Long term, full time; (2) long term, part time; (3) short term, full time; (4) short term, part time.

(2) - (4) count towards the Underemployment Score because they are either part time or short term (or both). (1) does not count towards the underemployment score because we do not know whether it is underemployment -- there are types of long-term, full-time jobs that should count in the Employment Score. And that's why the long-term, full-time jobs don't get deducted from the Employment Score.

somewhatwayward wrote:Do you have your 501(c)(3)? On your website I only see that you are incorporated as a non-profit. Unfortunately, even if you were a 501(c)(3), I am pretty sure people wouldn't be able to deduct $20 they gave you for a shirt (maybe they could deduct $20 - the FMV of the shirt) for the same reason that you don't get to deduct the price of T-shirt you buy at the museum store of a non-profit museum. That's probably why giving people free items upon donation was suggested instead. Also, I think that if you were selling T-shirts, depending on how substantial a part of your activities it was, you could be taxed on it because it would be unrelated business income (if you are a 501(c)(3)).

I realize I should've said earlier that I don't intend to provide legal advice. I have done pro bono transactional work for non-profits. PM me if you would like more info or to get in touch with the people who do this.


You're right that we couldn't charge $20 for the shirts without the sale proceeds being unrelated business income. We'd have to give it away free with a much larger donation, say $75 or $100. Likewise for a water bottle or mug, we'd probably need to be in the $25 or $50 range.

One argument I am curious about is whether it would be related business income if the purpose of the sale is to expand the brand reach of LST. I can't imagine this argument working because any nonprofit could argue that logo'd merchandise serves their mission by doing that.

Anyhow, we actually have pro bono legal services because I did a fellowship with a nonprofit that does transactional work for non-profits -- perhaps you did work for a sister organization of the one I worked for (Pro Bono Partnership of Atlanta). I do appreciate the offer, however.

rad lulz
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby rad lulz » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:14 pm

Bump

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star fox
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby star fox » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:19 pm

I'm more excited this than to receive my dings from my pending Law Schools.

rad lulz
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby rad lulz » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:30 pm

john7234797 wrote:I'm more excited this than to receive my dings from my pending Law Schools.

You should be. Because then you can feel smug when those law schools that dinged you have shitty employment numbers.

Aroldis105
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby Aroldis105 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:34 pm

Does the "Public Service Score" include only JD needed jobs or is it any PI position? I assume the answer to this question would also prompt or negate the question of whether the PSS score is part of or separate from the "Employment Score".

Thanks.
Last edited by Aroldis105 on Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BlueJeanBaby
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby BlueJeanBaby » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:11 pm

tag

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jenesaislaw
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby jenesaislaw » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:37 pm

Aroldis105 wrote:Does the "Public Service Score" include only JD needed jobs or is it any PI position? I assume the answer to this question would also prompt or negate the question of whether the PSS score is part of or separate from the "Employment Score".

Thanks.


It includes any long-term, full-time job in government or public interest. It does not distinguish between legal and non-legal jobs. As such, it is separate from the Employment Score.

Aroldis105
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby Aroldis105 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:04 pm

jenesaislaw wrote:
Aroldis105 wrote:Does the "Public Service Score" include only JD needed jobs or is it any PI position? I assume the answer to this question would also prompt or negate the question of whether the PSS score is part of or separate from the "Employment Score".

Thanks.


It includes any long-term, full-time job in government or public interest. It does not distinguish between legal and non-legal jobs. As such, it is separate from the Employment Score.


Thank you. To clarify, if one were to add the two numbers together (Public Service Score & Employment Score) there would be no double counting of students?

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Rahviveh
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby Rahviveh » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:05 pm

Aroldis105 wrote:
jenesaislaw wrote:
Aroldis105 wrote:Does the "Public Service Score" include only JD needed jobs or is it any PI position? I assume the answer to this question would also prompt or negate the question of whether the PSS score is part of or separate from the "Employment Score".

Thanks.


It includes any long-term, full-time job in government or public interest. It does not distinguish between legal and non-legal jobs. As such, it is separate from the Employment Score.


Thank you. To clarify, if one were to add the two numbers together (Public Service Score & Employment Score) there would be no double counting of students?


You probably shouldn't add them together. There's a reason why they aren't already in the employment score.

Aroldis105
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby Aroldis105 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:44 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
Aroldis105 wrote:
jenesaislaw wrote:
Aroldis105 wrote:Does the "Public Service Score" include only JD needed jobs or is it any PI position? I assume the answer to this question would also prompt or negate the question of whether the PSS score is part of or separate from the "Employment Score".

Thanks.


It includes any long-term, full-time job in government or public interest. It does not distinguish between legal and non-legal jobs. As such, it is separate from the Employment Score.


Thank you. To clarify, if one were to add the two numbers together (Public Service Score & Employment Score) there would be no double counting of students?


You probably shouldn't add them together. There's a reason why they aren't already in the employment score.


Understandable. But as someone very interested in PI, I just want to get the most complete understanding that I can via LST. For the majority of TLSers I'm sure the PSS is as irrelevant as the number of grads who are left handed, but for many, PI is the reason to go to law school.
@jenesaislaw Feel free to intervene and correct me if the PSS is somehow an undesirable outcome even for those looking at PI.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby jenesaislaw » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:39 pm

There is nothing undesirable about the Public Service Score. It is simply a measure of how many people are in long-term, full-time public service jobs. Some will be lawyer jobs, some will not. For example, my job as LST's executive director counts under the PSS and I think it's a pretty sweet job, despite not being a job that requires bar passage.

However, you cannot aggregate the PSS and the Employment Score. This would double count every lawyer in public service jobs.

Take Michigan as an example: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=michigan

Michigan's Emp. Score is 75.5%. This means that 75.5% of its 2011 graduates were employed in long-term, full-time lawyer (bar passage required) jobs.

Its PSS is 18.5% because that's the percentage of its 2011 graduates who had full-time, long-term jobs working for a public interest employer or the government.

As it turns out, 68 out of 79 graduates in public interest jobs were bar-required jobs: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... &show=NALP. If these 68 graduates were all in long-term, full-time jobs (can't tell for sure), aggregating the two score would overstate the total by 18%.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby jenesaislaw » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:41 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:There's a reason why they aren't already in the employment score.


Just to be extra clear, some of the jobs are in the employment score. Some are not, but it's not because they're not good jobs -- in fact, if they're long-term, full-time jobs they're probably pretty decent all things considered, it's just that some of the Public Service jobs are not lawyer jobs and the ES is about lawyering.

CR2012
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby CR2012 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:18 am

Bump

Also, is the "Non-Discounted Cost" on LST calculated using 9 months living expenses or the full 12 months?

On some school's websites they only estimate the cost for 9 months.

Thanks

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Crowing
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby Crowing » Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:23 am

Now that the useless rankings have come we can switch to waiting in anticipation of some meaningful data.

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togepi
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby togepi » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:38 am

Crowing wrote:Now that the useless rankings have come we can switch to waiting in anticipation of some meaningful data.


Wish the timing were different. Everyone will have already chosen their law school by the time they come out :(

rad lulz
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby rad lulz » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:46 am

LST yall should really hype it up and release leaks slowly a couple days before. Build some anticipation.

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Gunnar Stahl
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby Gunnar Stahl » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:46 am

Crowing wrote:Now that the useless rankings have come we can switch to waiting in anticipation of some meaningful data.

BigZuck
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby BigZuck » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:46 am

togepi wrote:
Crowing wrote:Now that the useless rankings have come we can switch to waiting in anticipation of some meaningful data.


Wish the timing were different. Everyone will have already chosen their law school by the time they come out :(


For some reason I had it in my mind that it would be mid-March when schools released this data. No?

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jenesaislaw
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby jenesaislaw » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:43 am

CR2012 wrote:Also, is the "Non-Discounted Cost" on LST calculated using 9 months living expenses or the full 12 months?

On some school's websites they only estimate the cost for 9 months.


Uses 9 months because that's what's used by the gov't to determine the maximum amount you're allowed to borrow. I do think some schools inflate this number to cover the additional 3 months though.

Crowing wrote:Now that the useless rankings have come we can switch to waiting in anticipation of some meaningful data.


+1

rad lulz wrote:LST yall should really hype it up and release leaks slowly a couple days before. Build some anticipation.


I expect to release the Score Reports within just a few hours of having all of the data, so there really wouldn't be much time for leaking.

rad lulz
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby rad lulz » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:50 am

jenesaislaw wrote:
rad lulz wrote:LST yall should really hype it up and release leaks slowly a couple days before. Build some anticipation.


I expect to release the Score Reports within just a few hours of having all of the data, so there really wouldn't be much time for leaking.

Stage a contest where you offer a bag of pistachios to the person who can most accurately guess the percentage of FT/LT school funded jobs among each of the top 25 or so schools?

BigZuck
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby BigZuck » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:09 am

While we are waiting I think we should turn this into a rad lulz answers questions thread. You know, to pass the time.

First question:

Rad, sometimes I get the sense that the only three things you love in this world are law school transparency, romothesavior, and snark. Why is that?

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Gunnar Stahl
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby Gunnar Stahl » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:16 am

SHOTS FIRED

BigZuck
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby BigZuck » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:19 am

Ghost93 wrote:SHOTS FIRED


Lol, I was just kidding.

Still not sure what this thread is for though.

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Gunnar Stahl
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Re: New LST Score Reports c/o 2012 Waiting Thread

Postby Gunnar Stahl » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:22 am

BigZuck wrote:
Ghost93 wrote:SHOTS FIRED


Lol, I was just kidding.

Still not sure what this thread is for though.

As as counterpoint to the us news derp thread




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