Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

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Crowing
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Crowing » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:40 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
Crowing wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Knowing Romo I can confidently say that Romo chose his school solely because of historic Midwest placement and scholarship, not rankings.


For the sake of argument, granted. Now how many of Romo's classmates could truthfully say that, Rad?


I'm sure plenty of 0Ls do pick their school because of its USNWR ranking. But I don't see how that has anything to do with whether or not employers care about them.


Some employers do care about rankings. Most 0Ls care about rankings. Your post in non-sensical because it tries to connect two things that don't require a connection.


I thought we were trying to establish whether or not rankings mattered. Nobody gives a shit about whether or not they matter to 0Ls, therefore I thought we were trying to establish more specifically whether or not they matter to employers.

In that context, your post is irrelevant because it only establishes that rankings matter to 0Ls and says nothing about employers. Those two things do require a connection so long as we hold the premise that you're trying to make a coherent argument. But maybe that's a faulty premise; my apologies if that assumes too much.

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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:52 pm

Crowing wrote:I thought we were trying to establish whether or not rankings mattered. Nobody gives a shit about whether or not they matter to 0Ls, therefore I thought we were trying to establish more specifically whether or not they matter to employers.

In that context, your post is irrelevant because it only establishes that rankings matter to 0Ls and says nothing about employers. Those two things do require a connection so long as we hold the premise that you're trying to make a coherent argument. But maybe that's a faulty premise; my apologies if that assumes too much.


Lovin the bolded attempt to be clever. Way to break that glass ceiling, girl.

But like, 4 realz--Read the post. Romo said, paraphrasing, rankings are bullshit and zero 0Ls should consider them, ever. That's hilarious because what, 90% of 0Ls consider them? Then you came in, mis-interpetted shit, and said stuff.

PS I think it's so funny on TLS that we can agree 90% of applicants care about rankings, but then, magically, 7-8 years later 0% of this same group gives a shit. Super LOL worthy is that many lawyers are insecure, prestige-whores who want to hire other lawyers from "prestigious" schools. Ha "rankings don't matter" on TOP-law-schools.com. Gemme a break! I know conspiracy thoery is like, way INNN right now, but try to have some perspective on this. Rankings are stupid, but the fact that most people care about them, including many employers, means something. Not a controversial statement.

PS 2x/ FYI-- When you jump onto a thread and call someone irrelevant behind the mask of internet anonymity, other people may think you are one of those previously mentioned insecure, prestige-whores.
Last edited by Lord Randolph McDuff on Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tom Joad
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Tom Joad » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:01 pm

Outside the top 30, ranking actually don't mean anything at all. And 30 is being generous.

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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Dr. Dre » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:03 pm

Tom Joad wrote:Outside the top 30, ranking actually don't mean anything at all. And 30 is being generous.


too generous, imo

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Crowing
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Crowing » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:13 pm

Lol there's no need to get so butthurt. The point is you still haven't properly responded to a single critique of your horrible arguments ITT. You claimed that there is a big difference between #49 and #51 in the rankings. Romo called you out on it, and rather than respond logically, you get into some weird aspie philosophical rant about perception being reality. You still have yet to provide any evidence that even begins to support your original point.

He said the following, which you even bolded so I assume you were at least kind of trying to address this point directly

romo wrote:But they are utterly and completely meaningless for things like employment and deciding where to go to law school. They should not enter into any prospective 0Ls equation in picking a school.


Your response was:

McDuff wrote:Blah blah but part of the reason you signed up for WUSTL was cuz "zomg dad it's a top 20 law school."


I don't see why it is difficult to understand why your response is woefully inadequate. In fact, it's essentially a straw man argument. Romo said that rankings SHOULD NOT influence a 0L's school choice. Your response was basically "well, rankings DO influence 0L school choices." Okay, rad and I have both already conceded that, but what does the fact that rankings DO influence choice have anything to do with whether they SHOULD or not?

Here is a comment from your latest post.

McDuff wrote:Romo said, paraphrasing, rankings are bullshit and zero 0Ls should consider them, ever. That's hilarious because what, 90% of 0Ls consider them?


How does the second sentence in any way function as a rebuttal of the first? It wouldn't matter if 100% of 0Ls considered them; that has absolutely no bearing on whether they SHOULD consider them or not. All you keep doing is deflecting every reasonable response to your outrageous points by turning the discussion to something else entirely.

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stillwater
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby stillwater » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:17 pm

stillwater wrote:this thread is stupid

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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:43 pm

Crowing wrote:
McDuff wrote:Romo said, paraphrasing, rankings are bullshit and zero 0Ls should consider them, ever. That's hilarious because what, 90% of 0Ls consider them?


How does the second sentence in any way function as a rebuttal of the first? It wouldn't matter if 100% of 0Ls considered them; that has absolutely no bearing on whether they SHOULD consider them or not.


You assumed the second sentence was rebutting the first. It wasn't. You assumed shit, and then said stuff. You are very good at this.

Crowing wrote:You claimed that there is a big difference between #49 and #51 in the rankings. Romo called you out on it, and rather than respond logically, you get into some weird aspie philosophical rant about perception being reality. You still have yet to provide any evidence that even begins to support your original point.



Uh. I said schools between 51 and 70 would love to trade places with 49. Do you dispute this? I mean, did I need to explain that statement? I guess, if you are sincerely confused, I should have. My apologies. Yeah so, the faculty at my school would shit a brick if they fell out of "T1." I have a good friend who worked during for admissions during her 3L at SMU. They fell from 48 to 51 or something, and haven't been able to get back. They were understandably pissed, because they had long marketed themselves at a "top tier" school. As to the weird aspie philosphical rant, I'll just repeat it for you: perception is reality. Do ya get it? Most people perceive that rankings are important, and that, in itself, lends credibility to the rankings. I didn't think I needed to explain that one either. My bad.


Look, I said schools and students care about the T1 distinction. I'm actually (well, mostly) sorry if I needed to explain why schools admins, who market their schools, and students, who lack experience and like to impress mom, dad, and their friends, care about rankings. The next point I made was that some employers do care about rankings. Then romo said WOWSERS dude thinks employers care bout two spot differences in USNEWS rankings! Yeah I never said that. I picked two schools that were in different classes, and stated that there were employers who might allow themselves to be negatively influenced by the lessor school. I THEN STATED THAT NEITHER WOULD LIKELY GET A JERB OUT OF STATE ANYWAY! Like, I get it, an out of state employer might look to see how the schools fared in the rankings to get a sense on how impressive the 3.24 GPA is, but hiring is going to be more influenced by about nine other factors, including fit, writing ability, ties, LUCK, etc. The reason I'm posting back and forth with you is because you, like romo, made some shitty assumptions which happens to be a real peeve of mine (can you tell..).

I also don't like people being rude without cause. I guess what I'm really admitting to myself is that TLS bothers the shit out of me.

Anywho, I'm over it. G'night, and sorry if I was over the top. I'm sure you are a nice person IRL.

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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby ephemeral.bete.noire » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:49 pm

This is the dumbest f*cking thread ever conceived on TLS. There should be some kind of award presented.

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Crowing
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Crowing » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:12 am

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
Crowing wrote:
McDuff wrote:Romo said, paraphrasing, rankings are bullshit and zero 0Ls should consider them, ever. That's hilarious because what, 90% of 0Ls consider them?


How does the second sentence in any way function as a rebuttal of the first? It wouldn't matter if 100% of 0Ls considered them; that has absolutely no bearing on whether they SHOULD consider them or not.


You assumed the second sentence was rebutting the first. It wasn't. You assumed shit, and then said stuff. You are very good at this.

Crowing wrote:You claimed that there is a big difference between #49 and #51 in the rankings. Romo called you out on it, and rather than respond logically, you get into some weird aspie philosophical rant about perception being reality. You still have yet to provide any evidence that even begins to support your original point.



Uh. I said schools between 51 and 70 would love to trade places with 49. Do you dispute this? I mean, did I need to explain that statement? I guess, if you are sincerely confused, I should have. My apologies. Yeah so, the faculty at my school would shit a brick if they fell out of "T1." I have a good friend who worked during for admissions during her 3L at SMU. They fell from 48 to 51 or something, and haven't been able to get back. They were understandably pissed, because they had long marketed themselves at a "top tier" school. As to the weird aspie philosphical rant, I'll just repeat it for you: perception is reality. Do ya get it? Most people perceive that rankings are important, and that, in itself, lends credibility to the rankings. I didn't think I needed to explain that one either. My bad.


Look, I said schools and students care about the T1 distinction. I'm actually (well, mostly) sorry if I needed to explain why schools admins, who market their schools, and students, who lack experience and like to impress mom, dad, and their friends, care about rankings. The next point I made was that some employers do care about rankings. Then romo said WOWSERS dude thinks employers care bout two spot differences in USNEWS rankings! Yeah I never said that. I picked two schools that were in different classes, and stated that there were employers who might allow themselves to be negatively influenced by the lessor school. I THEN STATED THAT NEITHER WOULD LIKELY GET A JERB OUT OF STATE ANYWAY! Like, I get it, an out of state employer might look to see how the schools fared in the rankings to get a sense on how impressive the 3.24 GPA is, but hiring is going to be more influenced by about nine other factors, including fit, writing ability, ties, LUCK, etc. The reason I'm posting back and forth with you is because you, like romo, made some shitty assumptions which happens to be a real peeve of mine (can you tell..).

I also don't like people being rude without cause. I guess what I'm really admitting to myself is that TLS bothers the shit out of me.

Anywho, I'm over it. G'night, and sorry if I was over the top. I'm sure you are a nice person IRL.


Alright :P overwhelming consensus seems to be to let this thread die anyway. Happy trails!

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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby jenesaislaw » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:00 am

ephemeral.bete.noire wrote:This is the dumbest f*cking thread ever conceived on TLS. There should be some kind of award presented.


CONGRATS THREAD:

Image

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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby romothesavior » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:05 am

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:But like, 4 realz--Read the post. Romo said, paraphrasing, rankings are bullshit and zero 0Ls should consider them, ever. That's hilarious because what, 90% of 0Ls consider them?

I'd like to introduce you to this wild new concept called the is/ought gap.

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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Yukos » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:09 am

romothesavior wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:But like, 4 realz--Read the post. Romo said, paraphrasing, rankings are bullshit and zero 0Ls should consider them, ever. That's hilarious because what, 90% of 0Ls consider them?

I'd like to introduce you to this wild new concept called the is/ought gap.


I used to think LRMcD was an alright guy, but I'm starting to think he's really, really dumb.

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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby romothesavior » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:18 am

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:I guess what I'm really admitting to myself is that TLS bothers the shit out of me.

Having interacted with you in the past, I think you're probably a good dude IRL, but here's what really bothers me about you and posters like you: when everyone calls out out for stupid comments, you project the blame onto TLS instead of thinking "Hmm, maybe what I just said was kind of dumb." No matter how many people disagree with you, we must all be wrong and indoctrinated in the "group think" and you're in the right and see the light. You seem to think battling the TLS community and consensus is some noble crusade or something.

The initial question was whether there is a discernible difference between a school ranked 49 and 51, and given the context of the question, it was very clear that it was posed from the perspective of a 0L considering schools. So the overwhelming response was no, a 0L should absolutely not let a small rankings difference (or even a large one, really) enter into the equation in choosing a law school. And then you come in here proclaiming how wrong we all are about this because the deans at XYZ Tier 2 school want to be in the Tier 1? Well no shit Sherlock, of course they do. No one even remotely disagrees with you, yet you're acting like you just unlocked some deep and insightful wisdom. But how does the T2 dean's desire to be a T1 have any bearing on whether it should matter at all to a prospective or current student where precisely the school is ranked? How is this even controversial? I really think you enjoy being a contrarian to "stick it to the TLS man," which is a really annoying and unnecessary schtick.

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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:12 pm

Yukos wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:But like, 4 realz--Read the post. Romo said, paraphrasing, rankings are bullshit and zero 0Ls should consider them, ever. That's hilarious because what, 90% of 0Ls consider them?

I'd like to introduce you to this wild new concept called the is/ought gap.


I used to think LRMcD was an alright guy, but I'm starting to think he's really, really dumb.


Devastatingly effective use of your time with this quality post.

Probably didn't consider whether or not I was alluding to how how useless and futile romo's argument is given the reality of the situation, despite what "ought" to be true. Which was really the point of my initial post-- that TLS was, in a way, telling the OP how it ought to be...? TLS is a great resource, but its crapped up by posters who are quick to assume and then quick to critique.

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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby HBBJohnStamos » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:14 pm

Could you turn down the "quick to suck" knob? You got it cranked to 11.

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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby romothesavior » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:27 pm

Mcduff, serious question: can you read?

You should consider my post of above and reevaluate the dumb stuff you say on here.

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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Crowing » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:31 pm

I thought we were letting this stupid thread die? Maybe a lock, romo?

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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:31 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Yeah, cuz Tenn and Wisconsin are two spots apart, not like, 40 spots apart.

49 and 51 is very, very important for schools in that range. That is what I said. Then, I said some employers might differientiate between two schools 40 ranks apart. Considering its much harder to get into Wisconsin than Tenn, I stand behind that. Don't be such a dick Romo.


You've proved my point. I'm a lawyer in New York one year removed from law school. I have no idea there's a major difference between Wisconsin and Tennessee. If a resume from each school came across my desk I'd consider them exactly the same. I sure as shit couldn't tell the difference between 49 and 51, or 40 and 60 and I don't care enough to look.

Now I never said it was impossible to find an employer who would look up the ranks of each school in USNWR and use that to make hiring decisions. I just think it's less likely that an employer differentiating between their football programs. It's a non-issue for the purposes of a 0L considering those schools.

The only role USNWR should play in the application process is strategizing about schools to apply to in order to effectively negotiate scholarships. But this has nothing to do with employer hiring preferences and everything to do with taking advantage of the inanity of the rankings system, and it doesn't mean you should accept an offer at a slightly higher ranked school outside of your target market.

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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:40 pm

romothesavior wrote:Mcduff, serious question: can you read?

You should consider my post of above and reevaluate the dumb stuff you say on here.


I wasn't going to respond to you because it was obvious from your post that you had no intention of debating anything. You had mis-interpetted (perhaps purposely) the record and were now just lobbying for TLS points. I'm married, work, school-- 18k posts is not something I'll ever achieve, though I do like TLS. Sorry if I can't always go tick-for-tack with you; I hope you know that I'd love to if only I had the time.

As a favor to you, however, I shall respond. Also yes I can read. Thank you for asking.

romothesavior wrote:when everyone calls out out for stupid comments, you project the blame onto TLS instead of thinking "Hmm, maybe what I just said was kind of dumb." No matter how many people disagree with you, we must all be wrong and indoctrinated in the "group think" and you're in the right and see the light.


This was a really effective way to argue in high school. Here, "everyone" was like 4 internet people, but yeah, I've seen that form of argument before. I see you.

romothesavior wrote:
The initial question was whether there is a discernible difference between a school ranked 49 and 51.


Yup. There is one. OP didn't ask about employment. Just asked if there was a difference. I said there wasn't a difference in employment, schools are regional, but there was a difference. You left out the last part. Look man, you and I are barking up the same tree.. I just think telling people how it "ought" to be can damage your credibility if you don't make it clear to the audience what you are doing. TLS is filled with these absolutes from the collective wisdom of the mega-posters. A lot of people don't do well with absolutes, so I tone it down. I don't think adding nuances waters down the truth; it lends it credibility. As to the alleged bias on my part that I was accused of by that other poster with the horribly annoying Tar and name, that is just dumb. Not only is that a worthless argument because you'll never get your opponent to agree to bias, it is just non-sensical based on how I post on this website. I have stated time and time again that CU is a peer school with KU, Texas Tech, Wyoming, you name it. (yet another example of someone quick to assume..)


romothesavior wrote:And then you come in here proclaiming how wrong we all are about this because the deans at XYZ Tier 2 school want to be in the Tier 1?


At this point I don't even think you're trying. Not even close to what I said. I can see how mis-stating what I said benefits your 356th online argument on TLS, but that's the extent of it.

romothesavior wrote:I really think you enjoy being a contrarian to "stick it to the TLS man," which is a really annoying and unnecessary schtick.


TLS is both a great resource and a mindless echo chamber. I'm just trying to keep in real romo. I think the 0Ls can handle it.

Finally, just to show solidarity with myself and to re-inforce that none of this has in any way shifted my opinion, I'll repost my initial post from the thread. Please enjoy:


Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51? Yes. That is why law schools from #51 to #70 desperately want to move into the T1. Should there be a difference between #49 and #51? No, which is why you are getting all this feedback from TLS. These schools are regional-- you should generally only go to the #49 school if you want to work in that region, same with #51, and, in this years rankings, even #20. (Washington)

To an extent TLS is telling you how it should be though, not how it is. There are still many lawyers who would look at a out of state resume and be somewhat neutral about Wisconsin, because they looked the school up and noticed it was T1, whereas they might feel somewhat negatively about an out of state resume from U. of Tenn., because it was not T1. Now, this is misleading, because really neither candidate here would be likely to get the job. But to say that employers don't ever look at USNEWS would be incorrect.
Last edited by Lord Randolph McDuff on Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:42 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
Now I never said it was impossible to find an employer who would look up the ranks of each school in USNWR and use that to make hiring decisions. I just think it's less likely that an employer differentiating between their football programs. It's a non-issue for the purposes of a 0L considering those schools.

The only role USNWR should play in the application process is strategizing about schools to apply to in order to effectively negotiate scholarships. But this has nothing to do with employer hiring preferences and everything to do with taking advantage of the inanity of the rankings system, and it doesn't mean you should accept an offer at a slightly higher ranked school outside of your target market.


I agree with all this. I was making a finer point. Don't worry about it.

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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby rad lulz » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:45 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
Now I never said it was impossible to find an employer who would look up the ranks of each school in USNWR and use that to make hiring decisions. I just think it's less likely that an employer differentiating between their football programs. It's a non-issue for the purposes of a 0L considering those schools.

The only role USNWR should play in the application process is strategizing about schools to apply to in order to effectively negotiate scholarships. But this has nothing to do with employer hiring preferences and everything to do with taking advantage of the inanity of the rankings system, and it doesn't mean you should accept an offer at a slightly higher ranked school outside of your target market.


I agree with all this. I was making a finer point. Don't worry about it.

If so, you did a piss poor job considering that most of your poasts are an incoherent ramble.

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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:47 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
Now I never said it was impossible to find an employer who would look up the ranks of each school in USNWR and use that to make hiring decisions. I just think it's less likely that an employer differentiating between their football programs. It's a non-issue for the purposes of a 0L considering those schools.

The only role USNWR should play in the application process is strategizing about schools to apply to in order to effectively negotiate scholarships. But this has nothing to do with employer hiring preferences and everything to do with taking advantage of the inanity of the rankings system, and it doesn't mean you should accept an offer at a slightly higher ranked school outside of your target market.


I agree with all this. I was making a finer point. Don't worry about it.

If so, you did a piss poor job considering that most of your poasts are an incoherent ramble.


I shall work to increase my clarity on TLS. Thank you for your guidance, Mr. Mega Poster.

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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby rad lulz » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:48 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
Now I never said it was impossible to find an employer who would look up the ranks of each school in USNWR and use that to make hiring decisions. I just think it's less likely that an employer differentiating between their football programs. It's a non-issue for the purposes of a 0L considering those schools.

The only role USNWR should play in the application process is strategizing about schools to apply to in order to effectively negotiate scholarships. But this has nothing to do with employer hiring preferences and everything to do with taking advantage of the inanity of the rankings system, and it doesn't mean you should accept an offer at a slightly higher ranked school outside of your target market.


I agree with all this. I was making a finer point. Don't worry about it.

If so, you did a piss poor job considering that most of your poasts are an incoherent ramble.


I shall work to increase my clarity on TLS. Thank you for your guidance, Mr. Mega Poster.

np np

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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby romothesavior » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:53 pm

Lord McDuff... leader of the great crusade against the echo chamber that is TLS. Please, tell me more about my nonexistent misuse of is/ought.

Actually don't. This thread has run its course. Party's over gang.




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