Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51? Forum

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

No, reality is reality.

You don't, like, really believe that. Do you?

I mean, human beings are influenced by rational and irrational forces. "Yankees win because of the pinstripes," ya know.. I get that people on this site are angry that faulty perceptions of the legal market have negatively influenced their lives, but really? You don't believe in intuition, art, you walk around and see everyone disagreeing with everyone else but assume we all live in the same "reality?"

Let's try to stay relatively detached from this "law school scamming" business, shall we..

While I agree with you in principle, when looking at the OP, what is relevant is whether within the legal community there is a difference. You basically answered him with your first post:

There are still many lawyers who would look at a out of state resume and be somewhat neutral about Wisconsin, because they looked the school up and noticed it was T1, whereas they might feel somewhat negatively about an out of state resume from U. of Tenn., because it was not T1. Now, this is misleading, because really neither candidate here would be likely to get the job.

Now I don't necessarily agree that an out of state lawyer would react the way you suggest to WI vs. TN, but I do agree with the bolded meaning there is no practical difference between the two. the difference arises if you want to practice in WI or TN since both schools are regional. Again, there is ample evidenec that employers go with the schools they know and not by rankings, especially when we are talking such a small difference. I agree that many people look at the rankings and would incorrectly assume a difference, but I think the number of people who would do that within the legal community to the point where the difference influences resluts is negligible if not nonexistant.

ETA: Fuck the Yankees.

I pretty much agree with all this. I don't think its 100% that I wanted to be difficult, maybe 90%, because a lot of people do care about those rankings which in itself lends them a degree of importance. Also, I'd maybe change the bolded above just slightly, to make it a tad more probable that members of the legal community would care. I've spoken with a family member/practitioner who said that he looks to rankings to determine how difficult it was to gain admission to the job seeker's school. While job prospects between Texas Tech and Wisconsin are actually quite similar, it is far, far easier to be admitted to Tech.. Dunno, one older dude's perspective for you.

[jenesaislaw]

You can evaluate school's employment prospects using http://www.lawschooltransparency.com.

I saw a graph somewhere showing the employment rates from all 200 schools. It basically concluded that past the top 20ish schools, there was no correlation between USNWR rank and employment outcomes, which should be the chief concern when selecting a law school.

Here you go: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?r=guides&show=13

[romothesavior]

Just saying, you know schools care about rankings.. students care.. (some) employers care..

Perception is reality, romo.

Don't backtrack to a less objectionable position. Obviously schools care about rankings because. Some students care, although anecdotally, few really cared here when we dropped a few spots. And the ignorant prospectives out there might care. Nobody disputes those things.

But your original point was that a decent number of employers care about the difference in a couple of spots, e.g. 49 vs. 51. That is wrong and has no basis in reality, perceived or otherwise.

Yes, big differences in rankings, especially higher up in the rankings, might serve as a signal to an employer, but I think this really distorts the hiring process at most places. And your initial post certainly distorts the TLS perception of rankings. Rankings aren't totally worthless, but when it comes to picking a school, especially outside the top echelon, rankings shouldn't be a factor because it all comes down to job prospects, debt, and especially location. So no, there is no reason whatsoever to enter rankings into the equation when trying to pick between 49 and 51, so in a situation like that, they're worthless.

[Icculus]

No, reality is reality.

You don't, like, really believe that. Do you?

I mean, human beings are influenced by rational and irrational forces. "Yankees win because of the pinstripes," ya know.. I get that people on this site are angry that faulty perceptions of the legal market have negatively influenced their lives, but really? You don't believe in intuition, art, you walk around and see everyone disagreeing with everyone else but assume we all live in the same "reality?"

Let's try to stay relatively detached from this "law school scamming" business, shall we..

While I agree with you in principle, when looking at the OP, what is relevant is whether within the legal community there is a difference. You basically answered him with your first post:

There are still many lawyers who would look at a out of state resume and be somewhat neutral about Wisconsin, because they looked the school up and noticed it was T1, whereas they might feel somewhat negatively about an out of state resume from U. of Tenn., because it was not T1. Now, this is misleading, because really neither candidate here would be likely to get the job.

Now I don't necessarily agree that an out of state lawyer would react the way you suggest to WI vs. TN, but I do agree with the bolded meaning there is no practical difference between the two. the difference arises if you want to practice in WI or TN since both schools are regional. Again, there is ample evidenec that employers go with the schools they know and not by rankings, especially when we are talking such a small difference. I agree that many people look at the rankings and would incorrectly assume a difference, but I think the number of people who would do that within the legal community to the point where the difference influences resluts is negligible if not nonexistant.

ETA: Fuck the Yankees.

I pretty much agree with all this. I don't think its 100% that I wanted to be difficult, maybe 90%, because a lot of people do care about those rankings which in itself lends them a degree of importance. Also, I'd maybe change the bolded above just slightly, to make it a tad more probable that members of the legal community would care. I've spoken with a family member/practitioner who said that he looks to rankings to determine how difficult it was to gain admission to the job seeker's school. While job prospects between Texas Tech and Wisconsin are actually quite similar, it is far, far easier to be admitted to Tech.. Dunno, one older dude's perspective for you.

This makes a bit more sense, especially when looking at admission standards. I think the real problem though is that 0Ls look and just see the rankings and don't take into consideration the more important results of attending one school over another, or where they want to practice, etc.

Really though, the important thing is fuck the yankees.

ETA: Though again I think when looking at employers the big thing for these lower ranked schools is location.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Just saying, you know schools care about rankings.. students care.. (some) employers care..

Perception is reality, romo.

Don't backtrack to a less objectionable position. Obviously schools care about rankings because. Some students care, although anecdotally, few really cared here when we dropped a few spots. And the ignorant prospectives out there might care. Nobody disputes those things.

But your original point was that a decent number of employers care about the difference in a couple of spots, e.g. 49 vs. 51. That is wrong and has no basis in reality, perceived or otherwise.

Yes, big differences in rankings, especially higher up in the rankings, might serve as a signal to an employer, but I think this really distorts the hiring process at most places. And your initial post certainly distorts the TLS perception of rankings. Rankings aren't totally worthless, but when it comes to picking a school, especially outside the top echelon, rankings shouldn't be a factor because it all comes down to job prospects, debt, and especially location. So no, there is no reason whatsoever to enter rankings into the equation when trying to pick between 49 and 51, so in a situation like that, they're worthless.

Re-read my post and tell me where my original point was the bolded above..

No backtracking was done. Maybe some mis-reading.

[romothesavior]

Re-read my post and tell me where my original point was the bolded above.

Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51? Yes.

To an extent TLS is telling you how it should be though, not how it is. There are still many lawyers who would look at a out of state resume and be somewhat neutral about Wisconsin, because they looked the school up and noticed it was T1, whereas they might feel somewhat negatively about an out of state resume from U. of Tenn., because it was not T1.

Perception is reality, romo

Maybe some mis-reading.

Nah.

[stillwater]

The distinction doesn't matter because the truth remains: SHITLAW LOOMS

[timbs4339]

The idea that someone in Washington State hires from Wisconsin vs Tennessee based on the rankings is ridiculous. They are more likely to hire from whichever school's football program they've heard more from that season. Or more likely what else they like on the resume.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

I agree. That said, TLS loves to say rankings don't matter, completely ignoring the fact that everyone else thinks rankings matter, thus making rankings matter.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Yeah, cuz Tenn and Wisconsin are two spots apart, not like, 40 spots apart.

49 and 51 is very, very important for schools in that range. That is what I said. Then, I said some employers might differientiate between two schools 40 ranks apart. Considering its much harder to get into Wisconsin than Tenn, I stand behind that. Don't be such a dick Romo.

[rad lulz]

The idea that someone in Washington State hires from Wisconsin vs Tennessee based on the rankings is ridiculous. They are more likely to hire from whichever school's football program they've heard more from that season. Or more likely what else they like on the resume.

Lol this

TCR is outside of their respective states and maybe a couple of surrounding ones, no one gives a shit about either.

[romothesavior]

I agree. That said, TLS loves to say rankings don't matter, completely ignoring the fact that everyone else thinks rankings matter, thus making rankings matter.

Dude, you can be really dense sometimes, seemingly intentionally.

Obviously when people say "rankings don't matter" they aren't saying "No one anywhere in the world cares about rankings." Of course schools, administrators, some students, some prospectives, and maybe even a random employer somewhere out there in the world cares about a change of a few spots in rankings. But they are utterly and completely meaningless for things like employment and deciding where to go to law school. They should not enter into any prospective 0Ls equation in picking a school. That's why we say "rankings don't matter." If you want to run with that and turn it into something it's not, then that's cool too.

Your first post ITT was really silly, and was contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. Way to fight the TLS establishment bro, so brave.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

I agree. That said, TLS loves to say rankings don't matter, completely ignoring the fact that everyone else thinks rankings matter, thus making rankings matter.

Dude, you can be really dense sometimes, seemingly intentionally.

Obviously when people say "rankings don't matter" they aren't saying "No one anywhere in the world cares about rankings." Of course schools, administrators, some students, some prospectives, and maybe even a random employer somewhere out there in the world cares about a change of a few spots in rankings. But they are utterly and completely meaningless for things like employment and deciding where to go to law school. They should not enter into any prospective 0Ls equation in picking a school. That's why we say "rankings don't matter." If you want to run with that and turn it into something it's not, then that's cool too.

Your first post ITT was really silly, and was contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. Way to fight the TLS establishment bro, so brave.

Blah blah but part of the reason you signed up for WUSTL was cuz "zomg dad it's a top 20 law school."

How many times do I have to say perception is reality before you just agree with me. Also, you did either mis-read my blurb of text or twist my words, because I would never say employers would care about a 49 to 51 difference in the fairy tale magazine rankings.

So quit being a dick, Romo

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Way to fight the TLS establishment bro, so brave.

One day you shall say this and love me.

[rad lulz]

Knowing Romo I can confidently say that Romo chose his school solely because of historic Midwest placement and scholarship, not rankings.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Knowing Romo I can confidently say that Romo chose his school solely because of historic Midwest placement and scholarship, not rankings.

For the sake of argument, granted. Now how many of Romo's classmates could truthfully say that, Rad?

[Crowing]

Knowing Romo I can confidently say that Romo chose his school solely because of historic Midwest placement and scholarship, not rankings.

For the sake of argument, granted. Now how many of Romo's classmates could truthfully say that, Rad?

I'm sure plenty of 0Ls do pick their school because of its USNWR ranking. But I don't see how that has anything to do with whether or not employers care about them.

[rad lulz]

Knowing Romo I can confidently say that Romo chose his school solely because of historic Midwest placement and scholarship, not rankings.

For the sake of argument, granted. Now how many of Romo's classmates could truthfully say that, Rad?

I'm sure plenty of 0Ls do pick their school because of its USNWR ranking. But I don't see how that has anything to do with whether or not employers care about them.

This.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Knowing Romo I can confidently say that Romo chose his school solely because of historic Midwest placement and scholarship, not rankings.

For the sake of argument, granted. Now how many of Romo's classmates could truthfully say that, Rad?

I'm sure plenty of 0Ls do pick their school because of its USNWR ranking. But I don't see how that has anything to do with whether or not employers care about them.

Some employers do care about rankings. Most 0Ls care about rankings. Your post in non-sensical because it tries to connect two things that don't require a connection.

[ajr]

Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Mathematician's answer: Of course. They are two distinct numbers.
Engineer's answer: They are substantially the same.
Lawyer's answer: Well, do you want there to be?

[HBBJohnStamos]

ITT: Guy from CU Boulder tries to validate his school's T1 status as meaningful.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

ITT: Guy from CU Boulder tries to validate his school's T1 status as meaningful.

Try actually reading the thread, Stamos.

[HBBJohnStamos]

ITT: Guy from CU Boulder tries to validate his school's T1 status as meaningful.

Try actually reading the thread, Stamos.

I think you misread my post.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

ITT: Guy from CU Boulder tries to validate his school's T1 status as meaningful.

Try actually reading the thread, Stamos.

I think you misread my post.

People's Tars really throw off these interactions.

[stillwater]

this thread is stupid