Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51? Forum

[elliejoon]

I'm still waiting to hear back from several higher ranked schools, but I've been wondering for a while... is there really a huge difference between a school ranked at the bottom of tier 1 vs. one ranked at the very top of tier 2?

PLEASEEEE don't tell me all about how anything below T14 is worthless, etc. I understand that law school is a crap investment from most points of view unless you're at one of the top schools, and I know that job prospects are dire. Just any actual input on this would be MUCH appreciated.

Thank you!! (:

[Nova]

No. USNWR is worthless for evaluating. American is T1 but has worse job prospects than many TTTs.

T2 schools like SMU/UHLC place way better than many lower T1s due to proximity.

[EvilClinton]

]PLEASEEEE don't tell me all about how anything below T14 is worthless, etc. I understand that law school is a crap investment from most points of view unless you're at one of the top schools, and I know that job prospects are dire. Just any actual input on this would be MUCH appreciated.

I think you answered your own question. Job prospects are bad/terrible at any of those schools. There is no discernible difference.

[Nova]

Make your decision based on job prospects, debt, and location. Forget about USNWR.

[empyreanrrv]

You can evaluate school's employment prospects using http://www.lawschooltransparency.com.

I saw a graph somewhere showing the employment rates from all 200 schools. It basically concluded that past the top 20ish schools, there was no correlation between USNWR rank and employment outcomes, which should be the chief concern when selecting a law school.

[Ludo!]

What is a URM of sorts?

[somewhatwayward]

If these are the types of schools you are looking at, go to the cheapest one that has a decent employment score. The only schools with reputations worth paying for are HYS.....maybe the rest of the T14. I can confidently tell you that an employer will not be impressed by the fact that you go to #49 as compared to the TTT graduate of a school in the city where the employer is located. There is literally no prestige in going to the 49th-best school. That is why you should take the money from the school in the region you want to work. (PS: really if these are your options, retake the darn LSAT.)

I understand that law school is a crap investment from most points of view unless you're at one of the top schools, and I know that job prospects are dire. Just any actual input on this would be MUCH appreciated.

So if you understand that, why do you still want to go? Serious question....I am curious.

[elliejoon]

somewhatwayward, I'm not positive if I do want to go. I'm about to graduate undergrad, and I applied this cycle to see how I fare. I do have some law connections so the rankings are less important to me for getting a job. I obviously want to do well in school if I attend, but I really want to have a pleasant experience... or at least as pleasant as one can have while living in a library for three years.

Ludovico Technique, Middle Eastern. Most schools lump it in with Caucasian, but a few of my apps did actually differentiate. I suppose it's not really URM, but I don't know what else to call it.

[elliejoon]

And by the way, thank you to all the responders .

[Tom Joad]

All depends on what state you are from. If it is UF and FSU then I think they are basically the same.

[Ludo!]

somewhatwayward, I'm not positive if I do want to go. I'm about to graduate undergrad, and I applied this cycle to see how I fare. I do have some law connections so the rankings are less important to me for getting a job. I obviously want to do well in school if I attend, but I really want to have a pleasant experience... or at least as pleasant as one can have while living in a library for three years.

Ludovico Technique, Middle Eastern. Most schools lump it in with Caucasian, but a few of my apps did actually differentiate. I suppose it's not really URM, but I don't know what else to call it.

Gotcha. Are your connections good enough to guarantee you a job? Believe me, it's not a pleasant experience when you don't have a job lined up

[elliejoon]

Gotcha. Are your connections good enough to guarantee you a job? Believe me, it's not a pleasant experience when you don't have a job lined up

Barring catastrophe in the next three years, yes.

[romothesavior]

Make your decision based on job prospects, debt, and location. Forget about USNWR.

TITCR. If you're looking at American, run.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51? Yes. That is why law schools from #51 to #70 desperately want to move into the T1. Should there be a difference between #49 and #51? No, which is why you are getting all this feedback from TLS. These schools are regional-- you should generally only go to the #49 school if you want to work in that region, same with #51, and, in this years rankings, even #20. (Washington)

To an extent TLS is telling you how it should be though, not how it is. There are still many lawyers who would look at a out of state resume and be somewhat neutral about Wisconsin, because they looked the school up and noticed it was T1, whereas they might feel somewhat negatively about an out of state resume from U. of Tenn., because it was not T1. Now, this is misleading, because really neither candidate here would be likely to get the job. But to say that employers don't ever look at USNEWS would be incorrect.

[Icculus]

Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51 among people who know almost nothing about law schools? Yes. That is why law schools from #51 to #70 desperately want to move into the T1. Should there be Is there a practical difference between #49 and #51? No, which is why you are getting all this feedback from TLS. These schools are regional-- you should generally only go to the #49 school if you want to work in that region, same with #51, and, in this years rankings, even #20. (Washington)

To an extent TLS is telling you how it should be though, not how it is. There are still many lawyers who would look at a out of state resume and be somewhat neutral about Wisconsin, because they looked the school up and noticed it was T1, whereas they might feel somewhat negatively about an out of state resume from U. of Tenn., because it was not T1. Now, this is misleading, because really neither candidate here would be likely to get the job. But to say that employers don't ever look at USNEWS would be incorrect.

Employers generally do not hire by the rankings, they hire from the schools they know and have had success with previously. Harvard could be ranked 100, but because employers know Harvard there would be zero difference. This is one of thre reasons NU tends to employ graduates at a higher rate than the ranking wouldn suggest.

[rad lulz]

Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51? Yes. That is why law schools from #51 to #70 desperately want to move into the T1. Should there be a difference between #49 and #51? No, which is why you are getting all this feedback from TLS. These schools are regional-- you should generally only go to the #49 school if you want to work in that region, same with #51, and, in this years rankings, even #20. (Washington)

To an extent TLS is telling you how it should be though, not how it is. There are still many lawyers who would look at a out of state resume and be somewhat neutral about Wisconsin, because they looked the school up and noticed it was T1, whereas they might feel somewhat negatively about an out of state resume from U. of Tenn., because it was not T1. Now, this is misleading, because really neither candidate here would be likely to get the job. But to say that employers don't ever look at USNEWS would be incorrect.

lol no

[romothesavior]

Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51? Yes. That is why law schools from #51 to #70 desperately want to move into the T1. Should there be a difference between #49 and #51? No, which is why you are getting all this feedback from TLS. These schools are regional-- you should generally only go to the #49 school if you want to work in that region, same with #51, and, in this years rankings, even #20. (Washington)

To an extent TLS is telling you how it should be though, not how it is. There are still many lawyers who would look at a out of state resume and be somewhat neutral about Wisconsin, because they looked the school up and noticed it was T1, whereas they might feel somewhat negatively about an out of state resume from U. of Tenn., because it was not T1. Now, this is misleading, because really neither candidate here would be likely to get the job. But to say that employers don't ever look at USNEWS would be incorrect.

lol no

This is even worse than the ties argument. You're slippin', McDuff.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Just saying, you know schools care about rankings.. students care.. (some) employers care..

Perception is reality, romo.

[Yukos]

No, reality is reality.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

No, reality is reality.

You don't, like, really believe that. Do you?

I mean, human beings are influenced by rational and irrational forces. "Yankees win because of the pinstripes," ya know.. I get that people on this site are angry that faulty perceptions of the legal market have negatively influenced their lives, but really? You don't believe in intuition, art, you walk around and see everyone disagreeing with everyone else but assume we all live in the same "reality?"

Let's try to stay relatively detached from this "law school scamming" business, shall we..

[banana$$stand]

Yankees win because they have Mickey Mantle

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Yankees win because they have Mickey Mantle

Ha yes, this was popular perception.

[Icculus]

No, reality is reality.

You don't, like, really believe that. Do you?

I mean, human beings are influenced by rational and irrational forces. "Yankees win because of the pinstripes," ya know.. I get that people on this site are angry that faulty perceptions of the legal market have negatively influenced their lives, but really? You don't believe in intuition, art, you walk around and see everyone disagreeing with everyone else but assume we all live in the same "reality?"

Let's try to stay relatively detached from this "law school scamming" business, shall we..

While I agree with you in principle, when looking at the OP, what is relevant is whether within the legal community there is a difference. You basically answered him with your first post:

There are still many lawyers who would look at a out of state resume and be somewhat neutral about Wisconsin, because they looked the school up and noticed it was T1, whereas they might feel somewhat negatively about an out of state resume from U. of Tenn., because it was not T1. Now, this is misleading, because really neither candidate here would be likely to get the job.

Now I don't necessarily agree that an out of state lawyer would react the way you suggest to WI vs. TN, but I do agree with the bolded meaning there is no practical difference between the two. The difference arises if you want to practice in WI or TN since both schools are regional. Again, there is ample evidence that employers go with the schools they know and not by rankings, especially when we are talking such a small difference. I agree that many people look at the rankings and would incorrectly assume a difference, but I think the number of people who would do that within the legal community to the point where the difference influences results is negligible if not nonexistant.

ETA: Fuck the Yankees.

[Yukos]

If we were comparing paintings in the Louvre then I would agree with you, but we're talking about which school would have a better chance of helping someone get a job and there's pretty specific and objective ways of measuring that...

[Ludo!]

Yankees win because they have Mickey Mantle

I hope you turn out to be a good poster because this username is 180