Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

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elliejoon
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Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby elliejoon » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:42 am

I'm still waiting to hear back from several higher ranked schools, but I've been wondering for a while... is there really a huge difference between a school ranked at the bottom of tier 1 vs. one ranked at the very top of tier 2?

PLEASEEEE don't tell me all about how anything below T14 is worthless, etc. I understand that law school is a crap investment from most points of view unless you're at one of the top schools, and I know that job prospects are dire. Just any actual input on this would be MUCH appreciated.

Thank you!! (:

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Nova
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Nova » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:44 am

No. USNWR is worthless for evaluating. American is T1 but has worse job prospects than many TTTs.

T2 schools like SMU/UHLC place way better than many lower T1s due to proximity.
Last edited by Nova on Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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EvilClinton
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby EvilClinton » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:45 am

elliejoon wrote:]PLEASEEEE don't tell me all about how anything below T14 is worthless, etc. I understand that law school is a crap investment from most points of view unless you're at one of the top schools, and I know that job prospects are dire. Just any actual input on this would be MUCH appreciated.


I think you answered your own question. Job prospects are bad/terrible at any of those schools. There is no discernible difference.

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Nova
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Nova » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:48 am

Make your decision based on job prospects, debt, and location. Forget about USNWR.

empyreanrrv
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby empyreanrrv » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:49 am

You can evaluate school's employment prospects using http://www.lawschooltransparency.com.

I saw a graph somewhere showing the employment rates from all 200 schools. It basically concluded that past the top 20ish schools, there was no correlation between USNWR rank and employment outcomes, which should be the chief concern when selecting a law school.

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Ludo!
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Ludo! » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:51 am

What is a URM of sorts?

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby somewhatwayward » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:54 am

If these are the types of schools you are looking at, go to the cheapest one that has a decent employment score. The only schools with reputations worth paying for are HYS.....maybe the rest of the T14. I can confidently tell you that an employer will not be impressed by the fact that you go to #49 as compared to the TTT graduate of a school in the city where the employer is located. There is literally no prestige in going to the 49th-best school. That is why you should take the money from the school in the region you want to work. (PS: really if these are your options, retake the darn LSAT.)

elliejoon wrote:I understand that law school is a crap investment from most points of view unless you're at one of the top schools, and I know that job prospects are dire. Just any actual input on this would be MUCH appreciated.


So if you understand that, why do you still want to go? Serious question....I am curious.

elliejoon
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby elliejoon » Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:01 am

somewhatwayward, I'm not positive if I do want to go. I'm about to graduate undergrad, and I applied this cycle to see how I fare. I do have some law connections so the rankings are less important to me for getting a job. I obviously want to do well in school if I attend, but I really want to have a pleasant experience... or at least as pleasant as one can have while living in a library for three years.

Ludovico Technique, Middle Eastern. Most schools lump it in with Caucasian, but a few of my apps did actually differentiate. I suppose it's not really URM, but I don't know what else to call it.
Last edited by elliejoon on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

elliejoon
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby elliejoon » Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:01 am

And by the way, thank you to all the responders :).

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Tom Joad
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Tom Joad » Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:05 am

All depends on what state you are from. If it is UF and FSU then I think they are basically the same.

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Ludo!
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Ludo! » Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:13 am

elliejoon wrote:somewhatwayward, I'm not positive if I do want to go. I'm about to graduate undergrad, and I applied this cycle to see how I fare. I do have some law connections so the rankings are less important to me for getting a job. I obviously want to do well in school if I attend, but I really want to have a pleasant experience... or at least as pleasant as one can have while living in a library for three years.

Ludovico Technique, Middle Eastern. Most schools lump it in with Caucasian, but a few of my apps did actually differentiate. I suppose it's not really URM, but I don't know what else to call it.


Gotcha. Are your connections good enough to guarantee you a job? Believe me, it's not a pleasant experience when you don't have a job lined up

elliejoon
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby elliejoon » Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:30 am

Ludovico Technique wrote:Gotcha. Are your connections good enough to guarantee you a job? Believe me, it's not a pleasant experience when you don't have a job lined up


Barring catastrophe in the next three years, yes.

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romothesavior
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby romothesavior » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:35 am

Nova wrote:Make your decision based on job prospects, debt, and location. Forget about USNWR.

TITCR. If you're looking at American, run.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:22 pm

Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51? Yes. That is why law schools from #51 to #70 desperately want to move into the T1. Should there be a difference between #49 and #51? No, which is why you are getting all this feedback from TLS. These schools are regional-- you should generally only go to the #49 school if you want to work in that region, same with #51, and, in this years rankings, even #20. (Washington)

To an extent TLS is telling you how it should be though, not how it is. There are still many lawyers who would look at a out of state resume and be somewhat neutral about Wisconsin, because they looked the school up and noticed it was T1, whereas they might feel somewhat negatively about an out of state resume from U. of Tenn., because it was not T1. Now, this is misleading, because really neither candidate here would be likely to get the job. But to say that employers don't ever look at USNEWS would be incorrect.

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Icculus
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Icculus » Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:27 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51 among people who know almost nothing about law schools? Yes. That is why law schools from #51 to #70 desperately want to move into the T1. Should there be Is there a practical difference between #49 and #51? No, which is why you are getting all this feedback from TLS. These schools are regional-- you should generally only go to the #49 school if you want to work in that region, same with #51, and, in this years rankings, even #20. (Washington)

To an extent TLS is telling you how it should be though, not how it is. There are still many lawyers who would look at a out of state resume and be somewhat neutral about Wisconsin, because they looked the school up and noticed it was T1, whereas they might feel somewhat negatively about an out of state resume from U. of Tenn., because it was not T1. Now, this is misleading, because really neither candidate here would be likely to get the job. But to say that employers don't ever look at USNEWS would be incorrect.


Employers generally do not hire by the rankings, they hire from the schools they know and have had success with previously. Harvard could be ranked 100, but because employers know Harvard there would be zero difference. This is one of thre reasons NU tends to employ graduates at a higher rate than the ranking wouldn suggest.

rad lulz
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby rad lulz » Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:50 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51? Yes. That is why law schools from #51 to #70 desperately want to move into the T1. Should there be a difference between #49 and #51? No, which is why you are getting all this feedback from TLS. These schools are regional-- you should generally only go to the #49 school if you want to work in that region, same with #51, and, in this years rankings, even #20. (Washington)

To an extent TLS is telling you how it should be though, not how it is. There are still many lawyers who would look at a out of state resume and be somewhat neutral about Wisconsin, because they looked the school up and noticed it was T1, whereas they might feel somewhat negatively about an out of state resume from U. of Tenn., because it was not T1. Now, this is misleading, because really neither candidate here would be likely to get the job. But to say that employers don't ever look at USNEWS would be incorrect.

lol no

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romothesavior
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby romothesavior » Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:59 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51? Yes. That is why law schools from #51 to #70 desperately want to move into the T1. Should there be a difference between #49 and #51? No, which is why you are getting all this feedback from TLS. These schools are regional-- you should generally only go to the #49 school if you want to work in that region, same with #51, and, in this years rankings, even #20. (Washington)

To an extent TLS is telling you how it should be though, not how it is. There are still many lawyers who would look at a out of state resume and be somewhat neutral about Wisconsin, because they looked the school up and noticed it was T1, whereas they might feel somewhat negatively about an out of state resume from U. of Tenn., because it was not T1. Now, this is misleading, because really neither candidate here would be likely to get the job. But to say that employers don't ever look at USNEWS would be incorrect.

lol no

This is even worse than the ties argument. You're slippin', McDuff.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:59 pm

Just saying, you know schools care about rankings.. students care.. (some) employers care..

Perception is reality, romo.

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Yukos
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Yukos » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:13 pm


Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:38 pm

Yukos wrote:No, reality is reality.


You don't, like, really believe that. Do you?

I mean, human beings are influenced by rational and irrational forces. "Yankees win because of the pinstripes," ya know.. I get that people on this site are angry that faulty perceptions of the legal market have negatively influenced their lives, but really? You don't believe in intuition, art, you walk around and see everyone disagreeing with everyone else but assume we all live in the same "reality?"

Let's try to stay relatively detached from this "law school scamming" business, shall we..

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banana$$stand
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby banana$$stand » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:42 pm

Yankees win because they have Mickey Mantle

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:44 pm

banana$$stand wrote:Yankees win because they have Mickey Mantle


Ha yes, this was popular perception.

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Icculus
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Icculus » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:45 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
Yukos wrote:No, reality is reality.


You don't, like, really believe that. Do you?

I mean, human beings are influenced by rational and irrational forces. "Yankees win because of the pinstripes," ya know.. I get that people on this site are angry that faulty perceptions of the legal market have negatively influenced their lives, but really? You don't believe in intuition, art, you walk around and see everyone disagreeing with everyone else but assume we all live in the same "reality?"

Let's try to stay relatively detached from this "law school scamming" business, shall we..


While I agree with you in principle, when looking at the OP, what is relevant is whether within the legal community there is a difference. You basically answered him with your first post:

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote: There are still many lawyers who would look at a out of state resume and be somewhat neutral about Wisconsin, because they looked the school up and noticed it was T1, whereas they might feel somewhat negatively about an out of state resume from U. of Tenn., because it was not T1. Now, this is misleading, because really neither candidate here would be likely to get the job.


Now I don't necessarily agree that an out of state lawyer would react the way you suggest to WI vs. TN, but I do agree with the bolded meaning there is no practical difference between the two. The difference arises if you want to practice in WI or TN since both schools are regional. Again, there is ample evidence that employers go with the schools they know and not by rankings, especially when we are talking such a small difference. I agree that many people look at the rankings and would incorrectly assume a difference, but I think the number of people who would do that within the legal community to the point where the difference influences results is negligible if not nonexistant.

ETA: Fuck the Yankees.
Last edited by Icculus on Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Yukos
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Yukos » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:48 pm

If we were comparing paintings in the Louvre then I would agree with you, but we're talking about which school would have a better chance of helping someone get a job and there's pretty specific and objective ways of measuring that...

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Ludo!
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Re: Is there honestly a difference between #49 and #51?

Postby Ludo! » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:50 pm

banana$$stand wrote:Yankees win because they have Mickey Mantle


I hope you turn out to be a good poster because this username is 180




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