Emory (70K) vs. UF in state (26k) Forum

[Drummingreg]

I have a preference for practicing in Florida but I would be fine working in Atlanta for the much larger legal market. From LST, UF total cost of attendance with scholarships seems to be about 100K and Emory seems to be about 190K. I am leaning towards UF. Is there any argument for Emory?

[stillwater]

there is an argument for retake.

[Drummingreg]

there is an argument for retake.

helpful

[hephaestus]

100k is way too much for UF. The Florida legal market is awful. There are so many schools and the market is still very much suffering.
Atlanta may be worse, as many people from elite schools get shut out of the market.
What do you think when you see the jobs data?

[badaboom61]

If you must go to law school, I would say UF, and shoot hard for a small / mid size firm or state government in your home market. Still, 100k is A LOT of debt and there is a good chance you won't find a legal job at all.

Don't pay 200k for Emory. That would be a travesty.

[hephaestus]

If you must go to law school, I would say UF, and shoot hard for a small / mid size firm or state government in your home market. Still, 100k is A LOT of debt and there is a good chance you won't find a legal job at all.

Don't pay 200k for Emory. That would be a travesty.

No one must go to law school.

[rad lulz]

$100k is too much for UF. $190k is too much for Emory

Retake.

[Drummingreg]

Everyone realizes that I included living expenses in total cost of attendance, right? UF is about $30K for tuition after scholarships. I'm just going off of LST for estimated living expenses. Please point me to a school that wont cost $45k+ for living expenses and books.

Thank you for the "retake" bs, too. I have been here for 4 years. I have taken every PT, done every logic game twice, read every guide. I got a 168 with a low gpa. That's as good as I can do on the LSAT, it is 2 points better than I ever got on a PT and it is 95th percentile.

[WanderingPondering]

What about WashU or GW or even UGA?

[BlueJeanBaby]

What about WashU or GW or even UGA?

UGA is throwing a lot of money at people-- people with numbers that would get accepted at Emory are getting in-state + 7.5k/year, making tuition (and fees) only a bit over 11k/year. Not to mention the cost of living in Athens would be significantly less than Atlanta. Just a thought.

[rad lulz]

Everyone realizes that I included living expenses in total cost of attendance, right? UF is about $30K for tuition after scholarships. I'm just going off of LST for estimated living expenses. Please point me to a school that wont cost $45k+ for living expenses and books.

Thank you for the "retake" bs, too. I have been here for 4 years. I have taken every PT, done every logic game twice, read every guide. I got a 168 with a low gpa. That's as good as I can do on the LSAT, it is 2 points better than I ever got on a PT and it is 95th percentile.

I hate to say it dude, but I wouldn't go at all then. The $ just don't make sense.

Or I would go to one of the two and drop out after a year if you don't get really good grades.

[cahwc12]

Everyone realizes that I included living expenses in total cost of attendance, right? UF is about $30K for tuition after scholarships. I'm just going off of LST for estimated living expenses. Please point me to a school that wont cost $45k+ for living expenses and books.

Thank you for the "retake" bs, too. I have been here for 4 years. I have taken every PT, done every logic game twice, read every guide. I got a 168 with a low gpa. That's as good as I can do on the LSAT, it is 2 points better than I ever got on a PT and it is 95th percentile.

Now you understand why so many people are foregoing law school. I have similar numbers to you (3.4/168) and I still have trouble pullling the trigger on law school. I'm holding out hope for an imminent, massive law school system overhaul, and hiding out in university in the mean time.

The actual opportunity cost is even higher when you factor out the three years of salary you can't earn (possible SAs not withstanding). Although, since many people go to law school to hide from the employment sector, it's possible that additional cost is close to zero.

[Aroldis105]

Lolz @ everyone but original poster.
30k for tuition over three years is a great deal for undergrad, law school, and some private high schools. It's 2013 not 1955, things cost money and many people, either from work or family have money to spend. Why everyone feels they deserve a 100k job if they're not in the top half of anything is beyond me. Most lawyers go to decent law schools, get decent jobs at medium sized firms and work hard to make money and pay off loans, that is how it works and that is how it has always worked. Some people have watched a few too many episodes of Suits and now think otherwise. Biglaw is not the be all end all, and frankly, it is not a great job. You make a lot of money for being a slave and most people end up quitting.
Of course the legal market isn't prime right now, but no market is. But you don't make a 3 year investment based on the present, you make it for the future. We get it everyone, be cautious when making the decision to go to law school, we are. But at this point the ubiquitous and rude nature of your comments make it seem like you're not trying to protect the OP, you're trying to protect yourself and thin out competition for jobs, scholarships, and admits.
Go to UF, warmer weather, fun campus, and its the most prestigious school in the state.

[usfvictor]

Lolz @ everyone but original poster.
30k for tuition over three years is a great deal for undergrad, law school, and some private high schools. It's 2013 not 1955, things cost money and many people, either from work or family have money to spend. Why everyone feels they deserve a 100k job if they're not in the top half of anything is beyond me. Most lawyers go to decent law schools, get decent jobs at medium sized firms and work hard to make money and pay off loans, that is how it works and that is how it has always worked. Some people have watched a few too many episodes of Suits and now think otherwise. Biglaw is not the be all end all, and frankly, it is not a great job. You make a lot of money for being a slave and most people end up quitting.
Of course the legal market isn't prime right now, but no market is. But you don't make a 3 year investment based on the present, you make it for the future. We get it everyone, be cautious when making the decision to go to law school, we are. But at this point the ubiquitous and rude nature of your comments make it seem like you're not trying to protect the OP, you're trying to protect yourself and thin out competition for jobs, scholarships, and admits.
Go to UF, warmer weather, fun campus, and its the most prestigious school in the state.

and let the meltdown begin in 5,4,3,...

[rad lulz]

Lolz @ everyone but original poster.
30k for tuition over three years is a great deal for undergrad, law school, and some private high schools. It's 2013 not 1955, things cost money and many people, either from work or family have money to spend. Why everyone feels they deserve a 100k job if they're not in the top half of anything is beyond me. Most lawyers go to decent law schools, get decent jobs at medium sized firms and work hard to make money and pay off loans, that is how it works and that is how it has always worked. Some people have watched a few too many episodes of Suits and now think otherwise. Biglaw is not the be all end all, and frankly, it is not a great job. You make a lot of money for being a slave and most people end up quitting.
Of course the legal market isn't prime right now, but no market is. But you don't make a 3 year investment based on the present, you make it for the future. We get it everyone, be cautious when making the decision to go to law school, we are. But at this point the ubiquitous and rude nature of your comments make it seem like you're not trying to protect the OP, you're trying to protect yourself and thin out competition for jobs, scholarships, and admits.
Go to UF, warmer weather, fun campus, and its the most prestigious school in the state.

This whole poast is retarded

The underlined is especially retarded because only about half of law school grads get ANY legal job. From UF only 58.7% got FT/LT jobs

The bold is especially retarded because I'm a 3L and I'm not competing with OP for jobs or admits. Also lol, just lol @ the effect that one poaster maybe going or not going will have on admit rate or employment rate

[Aroldis105]

The underlined portion was written deliberately and in the context of biglaw vs any other type of law employment.
Lawyers, as in people who are already hired by law firms, to practice law.
Not any person who is attending or has graduated from law school. Again, I am aware of the percentages, I think it is important that sites like LST are shared and used. However, I also believe that as long as a person is aware of those numbers, which OP was, then he or she should be advised not chastised.
If you want to be an actor then move to Hollywood, if you want to be a lawyer then go to law school, there are no guarantees in life for anything. The best you can do is know the risk and make an informed decision.

[timbs4339]

The underlined portion was written deliberately and in the context of biglaw vs any other type of law employment.
Lawyers, as in people who are already hired by law firms, to practice law.
Not any person who is attending or has graduated from law school. Again, I am aware of the percentages, I think it is important that sites like LST are shared and used. However, I also believe that as long as a person is aware of those numbers, which OP was, then he or she should be advised not chastised.
If you want to be an actor then move to Hollywood, if you want to be a lawyer then go to law school, there are no guarantees in life for anything. The best you can do is know the risk and make an informed decision.

Yes, and if that "informed decision" leads to the conclusion "don't go to these law schools at these prices, it's not a wise investment" then you shouldn't go to law school. Anything else is just counter-intuitive.

OP, have you tapped out your negotiations yet? 75K might be a good trigger price for UF. Emory at 190K is wayyyy to high.

[Ruxin1]

The underlined portion was written deliberately and in the context of biglaw vs any other type of law employment.
Lawyers, as in people who are already hired by law firms, to practice law.
Not any person who is attending or has graduated from law school. Again, I am aware of the percentages, I think it is important that sites like LST are shared and used. However, I also believe that as long as a person is aware of those numbers, which OP was, then he or she should be advised not chastised.
If you want to be an actor then move to Hollywood, if you want to be a lawyer then go to law school, there are no guarantees in life for anything. The best you can do is know the risk and make an informed decision.

You realize that's great for people that actually become lawyers, yeah it worked out for them -- but there are tens of thousands of people every graduating class that don't make it to that point.

[icanbeohyes]

I don't think what radlulz and other posters who tell people to retake or don't go is inaccurate, I just think it's irrelevant to people who have their minds made up. I understand that there is the prospect of crushing financial debt. But in my opinion, if you want to go to law school knowing that there is a 50% chance of employment in a failing market, then by all means go. You know what kind of financial debt you are willing to take on. Just because radlulz and others think it's reason enough not to go, doesn't mean you should take their advice. Tbh, it's pretty much counter-productive to hand out advice like this to people who still have no intention of listening. Anyone who has been on TLS for five minutes even if not to post knows the "retake or don't go" notion. Anyway, no one can predict what will happen in the future. Know your prospects, and realize the position you're in isn't a great one. But, if you want to be a lawyer. Go to law school.

And this is coming from a person who has is considering their advice to forgo going to law school this year for a retake. However, I am only considering this because I feel as if I have a chance of raising my LSAT and getting into a better school.

[cahwc12]

I don't think what radlulz and other posters who tell people to retake or don't go is inaccurate, I just think it's irrelevant to people who have their minds made up. I understand that there is the prospect of crushing financial debt. But in my opinion, if you want to go to law school knowing that there is a 50% chance of employment in a failing market, then by all means go. You know what kind of financial debt you are willing to take on. Just because radlulz and others think it's reason enough not to go, doesn't mean you should take their advice. Tbh, it's pretty much counter-productive to hand out advice like this to people who still have no intention of listening. Anyone who has been on TLS for five minutes even if not to post knows the "retake or don't go" notion. Anyway, no one can predict what will happen in the future. Know your prospects, and realize the position you're in isn't a great one. But, if you want to be a lawyer. Go to law school.

And this is coming from a person who has is considering their advice to forgo going to law school this year for a retake. However, I am only considering this because I feel as if I have a chance of raising my LSAT and getting into a better school.

Just because you don't like the correct answer doesn't make it not the correct answer. Asking which leg to cut off doesn't make right or left better except semantically so--the correct answer is to put the saw down.

And in his situation, the correct answer is not necessarily retake. A 173 will get him into better schools but won't enhance either of the offers on the table, because his GPA is too low.

[rad lulz]

The underlined portion was written deliberately and in the context of biglaw vs any other type of law employment.
Lawyers, as in people who are already hired by law firms, to practice law.
Not any person who is attending or has graduated from law school. Again, I am aware of the percentages, I think it is important that sites like LST are shared and used. However, I also believe that as long as a person is aware of those numbers, which OP was, then he or she should be advised not chastised.
If you want to be an actor then move to Hollywood, if you want to be a lawyer then go to law school, there are no guarantees in life for anything. The best you can do is know the risk and make an informed decision.

Yes, and if that "informed decision" leads to the conclusion "don't go to these law schools at these prices, it's not a wise investment" then you shouldn't go to law school. Anything else is just counter-intuitive.

OP, have you tapped out your negotiations yet? 75K might be a good trigger price for UF. Emory at 190K is wayyyy to high.

I'd do UF at $75k

[313DetroitLove]

Lolz @ everyone but original poster.
30k for tuition over three years is a great deal for undergrad, law school, and some private high schools. It's 2013 not 1955, things cost money and many people, either from work or family have money to spend. Why everyone feels they deserve a 100k job if they're not in the top half of anything is beyond me. Most lawyers go to decent law schools, get decent jobs at medium sized firms and work hard to make money and pay off loans, that is how it works and that is how it has always worked. Some people have watched a few too many episodes of Suits and now think otherwise. Biglaw is not the be all end all, and frankly, it is not a great job. You make a lot of money for being a slave and most people end up quitting.
Of course the legal market isn't prime right now, but no market is. But you don't make a 3 year investment based on the present, you make it for the future. We get it everyone, be cautious when making the decision to go to law school, we are. But at this point the ubiquitous and rude nature of your comments make it seem like you're not trying to protect the OP, you're trying to protect yourself and thin out competition for jobs, scholarships, and admits.
Go to UF, warmer weather, fun campus, and its the most prestigious school in the state.

this is good. OP, UF should have instate tuition for you after your second year by just switching over your residence. What scholarship amount did they give you? I was accepted in the 12 cycle, anticipated 100K COA with being an out of stater with no scholarship money. If it makes you feel better, I took a full ride with no gpa stip in a midwest market. :/ to each his own

[hephaestus]

Lolz @ everyone but original poster.
30k for tuition over three years is a great deal for undergrad, law school, and some private high schools. It's 2013 not 1955, things cost money and many people, either from work or family have money to spend. Why everyone feels they deserve a 100k job if they're not in the top half of anything is beyond me. Most lawyers go to decent law schools, get decent jobs at medium sized firms and work hard to make money and pay off loans, that is how it works and that is how it has always worked. Some people have watched a few too many episodes of Suits and now think otherwise. Biglaw is not the be all end all, and frankly, it is not a great job. You make a lot of money for being a slave and most people end up quitting.
Of course the legal market isn't prime right now, but no market is. But you don't make a 3 year investment based on the present, you make it for the future. We get it everyone, be cautious when making the decision to go to law school, we are. But at this point the ubiquitous and rude nature of your comments make it seem like you're not trying to protect the OP, you're trying to protect yourself and thin out competition for jobs, scholarships, and admits.
Go to UF, warmer weather, fun campus, and its the most prestigious school in the state.

Allow me to say this in the simplest possible way: you are an idiot. The fact that market is bad reinforces the dont go to law school option

[alwayssunnyinfl]

A good rule of thumb is to cap your borrowing at your realistic target salary so that servicing your loans with 10% of your income will pay them off in 10 years. Of course, that's really rough math and is just a good spit-balling mark, but I don't think you could argue that $100k/year is at all a reasonable expectation from UF. Sure, SOME may make that much money, but I wouldn't bet that much money on it.

[icanbeohyes]

I don't think what radlulz and other posters who tell people to retake or don't go is inaccurate, I just think it's irrelevant to people who have their minds made up. I understand that there is the prospect of crushing financial debt. But in my opinion, if you want to go to law school knowing that there is a 50% chance of employment in a failing market, then by all means go. You know what kind of financial debt you are willing to take on. Just because radlulz and others think it's reason enough not to go, doesn't mean you should take their advice. Tbh, it's pretty much counter-productive to hand out advice like this to people who still have no intention of listening. Anyone who has been on TLS for five minutes even if not to post knows the "retake or don't go" notion. Anyway, no one can predict what will happen in the future. Know your prospects, and realize the position you're in isn't a great one. But, if you want to be a lawyer. Go to law school.

And this is coming from a person who has is considering their advice to forgo going to law school this year for a retake. However, I am only considering this because I feel as if I have a chance of raising my LSAT and getting into a better school.

Just because you don't like the correct answer doesn't make it not the correct answer. Asking which leg to cut off doesn't make right or left better except semantically so--the correct answer is to put the saw down.

And in his situation, the correct answer is not necessarily retake. A 173 will get him into better schools but won't enhance either of the offers on the table, because his GPA is too low.

When did I say I don't like the "correct" answer? Even though an analogy that superfluous doesn't deserve to be addressed, I will say:

I was merely saying that if he despite knowing that sawing off his left or right leg isn't "right" (whatever right means in this context), and he still does not care to put the saw down, who is to tell him otherwise other than give him instructions on what leg it would be more beneficial to be cut if he feels he has to.