Texas Tech Law School vs University of Houston Law School

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kalvano
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Re: Texas Tech Law School vs University of Houston Law School

Postby kalvano » Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:04 am

I decided a career in prosecution wasn't for me when I realized I would make less money than my wife...and she's a public school teacher. It's not all about the money, but come on.

As far as UofH versus Tech, neither really offers an appreciable shot at anything resembling Biglaw. Only UT in Texas does, and SMU comes in second by virtue of proximity more than anything. Nor is there enough "prestige" around UofH to justify going there if the price is too high.

The knock on lower-ranked schools is always job prospects versus the cost of attendance. Tech solves this by 1) being really inexpensive compared to most schools, and 2) being decently well-respected, especially in the north Texas area. In other words, you can go for cheap and have a shot at a career as a lawyer on graduation, which is a damn sight better than most TTT's. Plus, the Dean on here has always been pretty candid about Tech's strengths and its weaknesses, which I appreciate. He doesn't try to sell Tech as a cheap back door to Biglaw.

All of which is a roundabout way of saying that, if the OP genuinely wants public service or criminal law, Tech is definitely a solid choice unless there is some overwhelming need to work in Houston. You aren't going to make much money, and likely won't for some time, if ever. But you can certainly get a job in a lot of places that aren't named Baker Botts or Akin Gump.

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togepi
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Re: Texas Tech Law School vs University of Houston Law School

Postby togepi » Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:42 am

Because Lubbock is a small college down (been there once because my uncle is an engineer there), where do the Texas Tech graduates end up? Is it a sprawl all over the state of Texas or are there a couple hubs that have a decent alumni base?

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kalvano
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Re: Texas Tech Law School vs University of Houston Law School

Postby kalvano » Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:48 am

togepi wrote:Because Lubbock is a small college down (been there once because my uncle is an engineer there), where do the Texas Tech graduates end up? Is it a sprawl all over the state of Texas or are there a couple hubs that have a decent alumni base?


Panhandle, New Mexico, smaller towns in north Texas, and there is a decent contingent in D/FW.

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Re: Texas Tech Law School vs University of Houston Law School

Postby togepi » Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:28 am

kalvano wrote:
togepi wrote:Because Lubbock is a small college down (been there once because my uncle is an engineer there), where do the Texas Tech graduates end up? Is it a sprawl all over the state of Texas or are there a couple hubs that have a decent alumni base?


Panhandle, New Mexico, smaller towns in north Texas, and there is a decent contingent in D/FW.


I'm assuming only the cream of the crop end up in Dallas?

By the way, just finished season one of The Shield last night. It's up there with The Wire and I am addicted. I might be a little biased because I love Boyd Crowter's character on Justified, but it's nice to see him in another role.

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kalvano
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Re: Texas Tech Law School vs University of Houston Law School

Postby kalvano » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:00 am

togepi wrote:
kalvano wrote:
togepi wrote:Because Lubbock is a small college down (been there once because my uncle is an engineer there), where do the Texas Tech graduates end up? Is it a sprawl all over the state of Texas or are there a couple hubs that have a decent alumni base?


Panhandle, New Mexico, smaller towns in north Texas, and there is a decent contingent in D/FW.


I'm assuming only the cream of the crop end up in Dallas?

By the way, just finished season one of The Shield last night. It's up there with The Wire and I am addicted. I might be a little biased because I love Boyd Crowter's character on Justified, but it's nice to see him in another role.


Actually, the top few students at Tech have a shot at Dallas Biglaw, and there are small firms that hire Tech grads that aren't top of the mark. But generally speaking (and b.gump can probably speak better on this), you'll need to do pretty well if you want to work in Dallas.

And Walton Goggins is easily one of the best character actors on TV. If you just finished season one, you're in for one of the best rides that has ever graced the small screen. The end of season five is jaw-droppingly, screaming "holy shit" out loud over and over awesome. And the end to the series may be my favorite TV finale ever.

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Re: Texas Tech Law School vs University of Houston Law School

Postby togepi » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:09 am

kalvano wrote:
togepi wrote:
kalvano wrote:
togepi wrote:Because Lubbock is a small college down (been there once because my uncle is an engineer there), where do the Texas Tech graduates end up? Is it a sprawl all over the state of Texas or are there a couple hubs that have a decent alumni base?


Panhandle, New Mexico, smaller towns in north Texas, and there is a decent contingent in D/FW.


I'm assuming only the cream of the crop end up in Dallas?

By the way, just finished season one of The Shield last night. It's up there with The Wire and I am addicted. I might be a little biased because I love Boyd Crowter's character on Justified, but it's nice to see him in another role.


Actually, the top few students at Tech have a shot at Dallas Biglaw, and there are small firms that hire Tech grads that aren't top of the mark. But generally speaking (and b.gump can probably speak better on this), you'll need to do pretty well if you want to work in Dallas.

And Walton Goggins is easily one of the best character actors on TV. If you just finished season one, you're in for one of the best rides that has ever graced the small screen. The end of season five is jaw-droppingly, screaming "holy shit" out loud over and over awesome. And the end to the series may be my favorite TV finale ever.


That's about what I imagined. Right now, I'm looking to limit my debt. Mainly looking at Louisiana/Texas law schools. I have an engineering degree, but I'm not sure at the moment whether or not I'd like to utilize it with a law degree.

Yeah, I'm a little bitter that it took me this long to start it but I wholeheartedly agree that he is a top notch actor. Cannot wait to start season two. I'm sure I'll be done with the entire series in a few weeks to come.

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kalvano
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Re: Texas Tech Law School vs University of Houston Law School

Postby kalvano » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:16 am

If you decide to patent-related things, you'll have a much easier time of it.

And if you don't scream at the TV at least a dozen separate times as the seasons progress, I'll give you a dollar.

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Re: Texas Tech Law School vs University of Houston Law School

Postby togepi » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:07 am

kalvano wrote:If you decide to patent-related things, you'll have a much easier time of it.

And if you don't scream at the TV at least a dozen separate times as the seasons progress, I'll give you a dollar.


How does patent hiring work from non T14 schools? It's definitely on my mind, but I'd also be comfortable doing something environmental, energy, oil and gas, construction related law. I'm sure that'll all change after 1L I'm sure.

This download for season two is taking forever. I'll keep you posted on my scream count. Definitely had a fair share of them during The Wire.

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Re: Texas Tech Law School vs University of Houston Law School

Postby cahwc12 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:03 am

kalvano wrote:If you decide to patent-related things, you'll have a much easier time of it.


I'd like to know more about this as well if you have TT-related information. I'd like to end up in Texas and do IP in DFW or Austin. Perhaps I'll go ask the dean.

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Re: Texas Tech Law School vs University of Houston Law School

Postby b.gump81 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:49 am

togepi wrote:
kalvano wrote:
togepi wrote:Because Lubbock is a small college down (been there once because my uncle is an engineer there), where do the Texas Tech graduates end up? Is it a sprawl all over the state of Texas or are there a couple hubs that have a decent alumni base?


Panhandle, New Mexico, smaller towns in north Texas, and there is a decent contingent in D/FW.


I'm assuming only the cream of the crop end up in Dallas?


Not exactly. It really depends on the type of law. Using criminal law as an example (because that is what I know the most about), Tech can place all over the state. For example, I know of several grads from last year in DA offices all over Texas such as Houston, Austin, El Paso, Dallas, Midland, etc.

I just looked up the numbers on our website, and for the class of 2011, 36 were employed in DFW. That was about 18% of the class. Kalvano was right in that the people that do get biglaw get it in Dallas or Fort Worth (very rarely there will be a couple that go to Houston, but by and large if you get biglaw from tech it will be in DFW). But you don't have to be cream of the crop necessarily to get to Dallas. Some people have connections, jobs waiting, they hustled, or they are in a field where grades aren't as important. I'm hoping to get to DFW, and I have every reason to believe I will, and I'm by no means cream of the crop.

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kalvano
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Re: Texas Tech Law School vs University of Houston Law School

Postby kalvano » Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:42 am

togepi wrote:
How does patent hiring work from non T14 schools? It's definitely on my mind, but I'd also be comfortable doing something environmental, energy, oil and gas, construction related law. I'm sure that'll all change after 1L I'm sure.



cahwc12 wrote:
kalvano wrote:If you decide to patent-related things, you'll have a much easier time of it.


I'd like to know more about this as well if you have TT-related information. I'd like to end up in Texas and do IP in DFW or Austin. Perhaps I'll go ask the dean.



It varies from the higher-ranked schools, I'm sure, but righ now there are at least three postings on SMU's job board seeking entry level patent-eligible attorneys.

If you can take the patent bar, don't shut that door.

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Re: Texas Tech Law School vs University of Houston Law School

Postby togepi » Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:58 am

I qualify for applicant A. That's somewhat reassuring to hear. Are those jobs strictly for SMU students?

As I mentioned earlier, I'm going to be deciding between Texas/Louisiana schools. It'll most likely come down between Tech/Houston/Tulane/LSU (price playing a high factor). What's the presence of Louisiana schools in Texas like? I heard that a lot of Tulane and some LSU kids make it over there, mainly Houston. I'm perfectly content working in Louisiana but would also not mind working in Texas, grandparents and some other family members live in various places across the state.

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Re: Texas Tech Law School vs University of Houston Law School

Postby kalvano » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:19 am

togepi wrote:I qualify for applicant A. That's somewhat reassuring to hear. Are those jobs strictly for SMU students?

As I mentioned earlier, I'm going to be deciding between Texas/Louisiana schools. It'll most likely come down between Tech/Houston/Tulane/LSU (price playing a high factor). What's the presence of Louisiana schools in Texas like? I heard that a lot of Tulane and some LSU kids make it over there, mainly Houston. I'm perfectly content working in Louisiana but would also not mind working in Texas, grandparents and some other family members live in various places across the state.


The stuff on my job board is posted just for SMU, but the firms may have it on other schools boards as well.

I really don't know much about Louisiana schools in Texas. I think they do OK in Houston, and it's certainly not unusual to see an attorney with a Louisiana school in his bio, but if you want Texas, go to a Texas school.

Although I understand the price thing, if you maybe want to do patent work or work at a firm, you should really consider more highly ranked schools.

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Re: Texas Tech Law School vs University of Houston Law School

Postby togepi » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:26 am

kalvano wrote:
togepi wrote:I qualify for applicant A. That's somewhat reassuring to hear. Are those jobs strictly for SMU students?

As I mentioned earlier, I'm going to be deciding between Texas/Louisiana schools. It'll most likely come down between Tech/Houston/Tulane/LSU (price playing a high factor). What's the presence of Louisiana schools in Texas like? I heard that a lot of Tulane and some LSU kids make it over there, mainly Houston. I'm perfectly content working in Louisiana but would also not mind working in Texas, grandparents and some other family members live in various places across the state.


The stuff on my job board is posted just for SMU, but the firms may have it on other schools boards as well.

I really don't know much about Louisiana schools in Texas. I think they do OK in Houston, and it's certainly not unusual to see an attorney with a Louisiana school in his bio, but if you want Texas, go to a Texas school.

Although I understand the price thing, if you maybe want to do patent work or work at a firm, you should really consider more highly ranked schools.


Seems to be the consensus. If I choose a lower ranked school, I can keep my debt to around 50k, which is manageable. So in general, graduating from a T2 with patent bar eligibility would be an uphill battle?

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Re: Texas Tech Law School vs University of Houston Law School

Postby kalvano » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:32 am

Patent bar helps a lot, but there is a direct and vicious correlation between the rank of the school and the job opportunities available from it.

For instance, Fish & Richardson (a big IP firm) has 20 people from UT, 12 from SMU, 3 from UofH, and 3 from Tech.

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Re: Texas Tech Law School vs University of Houston Law School

Postby togepi » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:41 am

kalvano wrote:Patent bar helps a lot, but there is a direct and vicious correlation between the rank of the school and the job opportunities available from it.

For instance, Fish & Richardson (a big IP firm) has 20 people from UT, 12 from SMU, 3 from UofH, and 3 from Tech.


That's understandable. Where does class rank come into play in this field?

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Re: Texas Tech Law School vs University of Houston Law School

Postby kalvano » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:45 am

togepi wrote:
kalvano wrote:Patent bar helps a lot, but there is a direct and vicious correlation between the rank of the school and the job opportunities available from it.

For instance, Fish & Richardson (a big IP firm) has 20 people from UT, 12 from SMU, 3 from UofH, and 3 from Tech.


That's understandable. Where does class rank come into play in this field?



Sliding scale based on school rank. UT, a firm might go to top 75% for patent eligible attorneys, SMU, maybe top 50%, and so on.

Depends on the firm, too. Bigger and more prestigious firms, they may not care that you are #1 in the class at Tech (or SMU). If you don't go to a certain level of school, you aren't good enough for them.

When you go to a school, you're going to get largely the same education everywhere. What you are buying is that school's name on your diploma.

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Re: Texas Tech Law School vs University of Houston Law School

Postby togepi » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:54 am

kalvano wrote:
togepi wrote:
kalvano wrote:Patent bar helps a lot, but there is a direct and vicious correlation between the rank of the school and the job opportunities available from it.

For instance, Fish & Richardson (a big IP firm) has 20 people from UT, 12 from SMU, 3 from UofH, and 3 from Tech.


That's understandable. Where does class rank come into play in this field?



Sliding scale based on school rank. UT, a firm might go to top 75% for patent eligible attorneys, SMU, maybe top 50%, and so on.

Depends on the firm, too. Bigger and more prestigious firms, they may not care that you are #1 in the class at Tech (or SMU). If you don't go to a certain level of school, you aren't good enough for them.

When you go to a school, you're going to get largely the same education everywhere. What you are buying is that school's name on your diploma.


Makes sense. Although anecdotal evidence from your time at SMU, do most of the people with engineering degrees pursue intellectual property? Or are there other fields where engineering degrees may be preferred for various reasons. Sorry I'm asking a lot of questions and I greatly appreciate your advice, as always.

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kalvano
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Re: Texas Tech Law School vs University of Houston Law School

Postby kalvano » Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:08 am

Most people I know who can sit for the patent bar have done so. The work is interesting, and even if you don't want to do patent bar required stuff (like patent prosecution), a number of IP shops that do all kinds of IP work only want patent bar folks. So it's beneficial to sit for it and have it, even if all you want to do is copyright work or something like that.

Also, patent folks are in high demand, so you can show up to interviews in sneakers, shorts, and a Rage Against The Machine t-shirt, drink straight from a bottle of a Jack during the interview, and slap the interviewer in the face and pee on his desk after, and all they will do is offer you more money to come work for them.

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Re: Texas Tech Law School vs University of Houston Law School

Postby togepi » Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:29 am

kalvano wrote:Most people I know who can sit for the patent bar have done so. The work is interesting, and even if you don't want to do patent bar required stuff (like patent prosecution), a number of IP shops that do all kinds of IP work only want patent bar folks. So it's beneficial to sit for it and have it, even if all you want to do is copyright work or something like that.

Also, patent folks are in high demand, so you can show up to interviews in sneakers, shorts, and a Rage Against The Machine t-shirt, drink straight from a bottle of a Jack during the interview, and slap the interviewer in the face and pee on his desk after, and all they will do is offer you more money to come work for them.


Sounds promising. I'll work on the pimp slap over the summer. Thanks again kalvano. Just started season two. I plan to watch at least six episodes after work and will probably be done with season three by Sunday :)

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kalvano
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Re: Texas Tech Law School vs University of Houston Law School

Postby kalvano » Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:19 pm

togepi wrote:
kalvano wrote:Most people I know who can sit for the patent bar have done so. The work is interesting, and even if you don't want to do patent bar required stuff (like patent prosecution), a number of IP shops that do all kinds of IP work only want patent bar folks. So it's beneficial to sit for it and have it, even if all you want to do is copyright work or something like that.

Also, patent folks are in high demand, so you can show up to interviews in sneakers, shorts, and a Rage Against The Machine t-shirt, drink straight from a bottle of a Jack during the interview, and slap the interviewer in the face and pee on his desk after, and all they will do is offer you more money to come work for them.


Sounds promising. I'll work on the pimp slap over the summer. Thanks again kalvano. Just started season two. I plan to watch at least six episodes after work and will probably be done with season three by Sunday :)



Sure. Sorry to sort of derail the thread, OP, but I'm happy to answer any questions I can.

And let me know how you like it as it goes. It's the only show I've ever seen that starts out by grabbing you by the throat and then not only never lets go, but instead keeps ramping up the pressure exponentially. Get on the money train and hold on.

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Re: Texas Tech Law School vs University of Houston Law School

Postby jeffyl00b » Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:09 pm

potterpirate04 wrote:
patrickd139 wrote: No, I'm saying that OP should be aware of the somewhat limited job prospects he or she faces by attending either school. No where did I suggest OP attend either school, if you care to take the time to actually read my post.


Okay. You're right, in that case. Neither of these schools can get OP into biglaw. The point you made is accurate and important, if OP wanted biglaw.

But:
nmnm wrote:I want advice on law practice alone. I am interested in public service.


I just can't figure out why you keep bringing biglaw into this when OP clearly does not want biglaw. Biglaw was never the initial issue here, nor will it be. If it weren't for this, then I would completely agree with you, trust me.


Because they somehow do well on the LSAT, yet never read the OP or any subsequent postings?

I actually wish I applied to this school earlier, it didn't get much on my radar until I saw the thread by the dean or assistant dean talking about the school
In that thread, and possibly the only handful of useful answers in this thread, the cities that most graduates go to after TTU was Dallas, Austin, then Houston in that order. So I think the situation depends on the part of the state. Texas is just slightly smaller than France after all.




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