2014 Rankings Released Forum

[Aroldis105]

^
I don't give a shit about Michigan, but this point is entirely irrelevant. Michigan has one of the largest endowments in the country and an alumni base so large (and passionate) that they can fill a 110K+ football stadium once a week without problems. If an unnamed building is deterring you from enrolling or looking at UM then you're probably over thinking this.

[Dr. Dre]

^
Michigan has one of the largest endowments in the country and an alumni base so large (and passionate)

Who cares. Penn shits on Mich.

[Aroldis105]

^
Michigan has one of the largest endowments in the country and an alumni base so large (and passionate)

Who cares. Penn shits on Mich.

Who cares. UCI is gonna shit on everybody when 2014 rolls around...

[Dr. Dre]

Who cares. UCI is gonna shit on everybody who matriculateswhen 2014 rolls around...

[Aroldis105]

Who cares. UCI is gonna shit on everybody who matriculateswhen 2014 rolls around...

NOOOO!!! That's not what I said. He changed it!!
BTW congratulations on your pursuit of the ambitious MD/JD Dr. Dre.

[Dr. Dre]

BTW congratulations on your pursuit of the ambitious MD/JD Dr. Dre.

PhD/JD

[04102014]

The anti-Michigan bullshit is ridiculous. Seriously.

How is it bullshit? Michigan is clearly /=/ UVA and especially /=/ UPenn. I really don't see how people use a particular set of statistics (mainly LST) to moan and groan about how bad the fucking economy is, and yet looking at the same set of statistics, claim "MVP"!!! and that Michigan, Virginia and UPenn are peers. Penn is obviously a league ahead of both M and V.

I agree with the sentiment about Penn, but the notion that Michigan is not equal to UVA is a joke. Take away UVA's absurd school-funded rate and they are like 1-2% points apart. Considering the other negatives about UVA (their pre-select OCI system, their splitter-inflated medians, etc), I would take Michigan over UVA every time.

Willing to guess that your opinions on this matter might be different had UVA given you a nod. Not hatin, just sayin

If by "just sayin" you mean ignoring the crux of my point and instead trying to attack my credibility (hopefully you know about fallacious reasoning by now), then okay. And no, they wouldn't.

[Jeremyl]

Why hasn't this thing leaked already? Didn't it always used to get leaked a week or so before being released?

[ms9]

Why hasn't this thing leaked already? Didn't it always used to get leaked a week or so before being released?

I fake has been "leaked" every year of this board's existence but one, where the real list was indeed leaked. that, I believe was 2 days (or very close to this) before the rankings came out, from the embargoed version the law school deans get. No school has yet to receive said list this year.

[Bildungsroman]

Why hasn't this thing leaked already? Didn't it always used to get leaked a week or so before being released?

Doesn't USNWR know that there are hordes of law students with looming deposit deadlines who need the ranking magazine's wisdom to make a decision?

[ms9]

Why hasn't this thing leaked already? Didn't it always used to get leaked a week or so before being released?

Doesn't USNWR know that there are hordes of law students with looming deposit deadlines who need the ranking magazine's wisdom to make a decision?

I'm pretty sure you just summed up their entire profit equation.

[MT Cicero]

I'm posting mainly to bookmark, but the numbers I'm looking forward to are Yellow Ribbon numbers. Apparently, schools look at VA match amounts and number of students eligible between 15 Mar - 15 May every year. Since my matriculation depends heavily on this amount, I'll be eager to see what schools increase/reduce their amounts.

[Renne Walker]

Back in the day, I had a friend who worked at Blockbuster, if I dropped by on Monday he would “advance me” the new releases…. apparently new releases come out to the public on Tuesdays… so if anyone has a friend at B&N (or anywhere for that matter) they might give you a peek at the USNWR.

[Real Madrid]

Penn is obviously a league ahead of both M and V.

I agree with this

Penn> Mich>UVA>Berkeley

Know how we know you're a dumbass?

[smitza1]

Chances Georgetown drops out of the T14? I have a feeling boysssss

[Real Madrid]

Penn is obviously a league ahead of both M and V.

I agree with this

Penn> Mich>UVA>Berkeley Penn >>>> UVA ~ Berkeley > Michigan

FTFY.

Seriously though, V, M, B are essentially peers w/r/t employment data, with Michigan being slightly worse in terms of employment outcomes. Penn fares significantly better than all three.

Disclaimer, Penn students on TLS would tell you the MVP thing is true. I, for one, when staring down the barrel of a fuckload of debt, am going to follow the employment data, scholarships being equal/close to equal.

Penn is definitely the best of the four with regards to big law, which seems to be the only thing that matters here. Mich has consistently been the worst of the four recently. Berkeley has tended to place a couple percentage points better into big law recently than UVa, but nothing hugely significant. Berkeley is probably the best of the four when it comes to PI, and aren't Mich and UVa slightly better than the other two at clerkships?

[Dr. Dre]

Penn is obviously a league ahead of both M and V.

I agree with this

Penn> Mich>UVA>Berkeley Penn >>>> UVA ~ Berkeley > Michigan

FTFY.

actually i think berkeley sucks more than both michigan and UVA. But you're right Penn pwns

[alwayssunnyinfl]

I only care because schools care because they think I care.

[battlerifle13]

The Penn trolling is seriously annoying.

[MrHairyLegs]

If by "just sayin" you mean ignoring the crux of my point and instead trying to attack my credibility (hopefully you know about fallacious reasoning by now), then okay. And no, they wouldn't.

Attacking your credibility is perfectly fly so long as I didn't make an argument one way or another. But would you really take Michigan over UVA every time? That logical force...

[wiseowl]

Penn is obviously a league ahead of both M and V.

I agree with this

Penn> Mich>UVA>Berkeley Penn >>>> UVA ~ Berkeley > Michigan

FTFY.

Seriously though, V, M, B are essentially peers w/r/t employment data, with Michigan being slightly worse in terms of employment outcomes. Penn fares significantly better than all three.

Disclaimer, Penn students on TLS would tell you the MVP thing is true. I, for one, when staring down the barrel of a fuckload of debt, am going to follow the employment data, scholarships being equal/close to equal.

Penn is definitely the best of the four with regards to big law, which seems to be the only thing that matters here. Mich has consistently been the worst of the four recently. Berkeley has tended to place a couple percentage points better into big law recently than UVa, but nothing hugely significant. Berkeley is probably the best of the four when it comes to PI, and aren't Mich and UVa slightly better than the other two at clerkships?

The point also is that Duke and Northwestern have left Michigan behind in firm job placement as well. Clerkship differences are minimal. Michigan has better PI numbers according to LST, but how much of that is by design and how much is by necessity?

If we're doing the goofy "pairings" game, its YHS CCN VPB MDN CG

[JamesDean1955]

^^ The pairing above is bullshit (only slightly less shitty arbitrary tiers than those usually purported on TLS).

Cornell significantly outperforms it's rank. Penn, Virgina and Berkeley are not equals. If you want to make these distinctions, the correct response is HYS > CCNP > VBC > DN > G.

People like to say how Northwestern outperforms it's rank, but this is in large part due to NU grads having significant meaningful work experience prior to law school (e.g. investment banking).

Again, I really don't care for these stupid tiers. Schools should be given a numerical rank based on employment outcomes (each school thus having it's own unique rank).

When comparing schools, people should use the ABA data. Add up the number of students working in 101+ firms, add in the federal clerkship numbers, divide by the total number of grads, and voila, there's your percentage to compare.

AFAIK, public interest jobs should not even enter into the equation when ranking non-HYS schools based on employment outcomes. This is because (1) outside of HYS, very few students from very few schools get prestigious/important PI/government jobs, (2) The number of students employed in PI is not broken down so that we can see the exact number of grads in prestigious worthwhile jobs. These numbers are diluted by grads going into far less desirable P.I. jobs such as working for the PD's office. Being a PD /=/ working for the DOJ.

Five year averages should always be chosen over data from only a single year.

[az21833]

Lol at thinking nu is filled with investment bankers

[pedestrian]

These numbers are diluted by grads going into far less desirable P.I. jobs such as working for the PD's office. Being a PD /=/ working for the DOJ.

Fair enough, but lots of people who want PI are interested in the PD office and other low-level in the trenches, do-gooder work. When I think of PI I don't immediately think of the DOJ or elite government positions.

People who are interested in doing something specific should obviously research whether graduates from their prospective program are typically hired, but I don't know how to draw a bright line between "desirable" and "undesirable" PI work.

[Void]

AFAIK, public interest jobs should not even enter into the equation when ranking non-HYS schools based on employment outcomes. This is because (1) outside of HYS, very few students from very few schools get prestigious/important PI/government jobs, (2) The number of students employed in PI is not broken down so that we can see the exact number of grads in prestigious worthwhile jobs. These numbers are diluted by grads going into far less desirable P.I. jobs such as working for the PD's office. Being a PD /=/ working for the DOJ.

Working at a local PD office isn't "important" or "worthwhile"? You clearly don't understand the point of Public Interest and sorry, but the way you phrased this is gag-inducingly douchey. Believe it or not, some people want their careers to be substatively satisfying, and don't care about whether dipshits like yourself think they're prestigious or "desirable."