Which Law Schools will close down first?

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reasonable_man
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Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby reasonable_man » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:36 am

So it seems pretty clear that some schools will be forced to close down. The real question is, which of these schools that are charging Harvard prices for community college results will close down first?


http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leiter/2012/10/predictions-about-closings-of-aba-accredited-law-schools-over-the-next-decade.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/11/us/lawyers-call-for-drastic-change-in-educating-new-lawyers.html?_r=0

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cahwc12
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby cahwc12 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:10 am

I don't think any schools will close this year and possibly not at all. If you had a profit mill, and the revenue source decreased by 20% despite your best efforts (reducing admissions standards), are you going to close up shop or try to cut costs? You only throw in the towel if you can't lower costs.

They could cut professor pay, reduce professor/staff numbers, reduce operation hours, augment/forestall/cancel expensive new construction/renovation plans. Just because they are operating at a theoretical loss by maintaining costs doesn't mean they will quit immediately with a year to plan. Any schools that close probably won't for at least a few years I think.

And certainly professors will clamor against layoffs or reduced pay, but I mean really, what leverage do they have? According to themselves, their job is easy, low stress, and high-paying. Plus, what exactly are they going to do with an ancient JD anyway? Go practice law?

You link to Brian Leiter's website up there, and I can't help but wonder what he would do if Chicago laid him off. He doesn't contribute to society in any way, and some might argue that he actually sucks life and productivity out of it. Probably he would end up at a philosophy department somewhere, but he's in the minority in that he has a doctorate.

timbs4339
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:51 am

I also think the closure of a law school this year is unlikely. They haven't cut staff and aid to the bone yet, or really rolled out the inevitable new programs or expanded LLMs to attract more revenue.

I think it is more likely the law schools will just decide to write off USNWR.

otnemem
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby otnemem » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:04 pm

Vermont is in trouble; http://www.wptz.com/news/vermont-new-yo ... index.html

Interesting in that it is exactly the kind of school that you would expect to be in trouble; independent and expensive, with little endowment or parent university money to fall back on. And yet at the same time, even that short article highlights why few schools are likely to close; they can lay off staff, buy out profs, and then invent pointless masters programs and online classes to bring in more revenue. Maybe/hopefully that won't be enough, but in general I think we will see most schools shrink in size with relatively few going out of business.

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cinephile
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby cinephile » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:06 pm

^ Agree. It's likely Vermont.

20141023
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby 20141023 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:34 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Rahviveh
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby Rahviveh » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:36 pm

cahwc12 wrote:You link to Brian Leiter's website up there, and I can't help but wonder what he would do if Chicago laid him off. He doesn't contribute to society in any way, and some might argue that he actually sucks life and productivity out of it. Probably he would end up at a philosophy department somewhere, but he's in the minority in that he has a doctorate.


What's his problem? I don't understand his beef with Campos at all.

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Crowing
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby Crowing » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:38 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
cahwc12 wrote:You link to Brian Leiter's website up there, and I can't help but wonder what he would do if Chicago laid him off. He doesn't contribute to society in any way, and some might argue that he actually sucks life and productivity out of it. Probably he would end up at a philosophy department somewhere, but he's in the minority in that he has a doctorate.


What's his problem? I don't understand his beef with Campos at all.


Boomer ChiTTTcago gunner achieved professordom

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hipcatdaddio
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby hipcatdaddio » Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:13 pm

bumping this thread because I'm curious as to if anybody has any new information about which law school will be the first to close its doors? Being from NC, I personally want it to be Charlotte, but that's doubtful considering how their class sizes increase. Clearly there are different opinions on which one will shut down first.

http://forgottenattorney.wordpress.com/ ... -opinions/

jumpingjack
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby jumpingjack » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:02 pm

Relevant from Above the Law: This is a list of the number of applications and acceptance rates of some of the bottom-feeding law schools in 2013. http://abovethelaw.com/2014/07/which-la ... fall-2013/

1. Charlotte: 3,342 (admit rate of 73 percent)
2. Florida Coastal: 3,085 (admit rate of 75 percent)
3. San Francisco: 2,762 (admit rate of 49 percent)
4. John Marshall Law: 2,518 (admit rate of 71 percent)
5. Suffolk: 2,367 admit rate (admit rate of 78 percent)
6. Southwestern: 2,260 (admit rate of 57 percent)
7. Barry: 2,087 admit rate (admit rate of 63 percent)
8. Thomas M. Cooley: 2,027 (admit rate of 79 percent)
9. New England Law: 2,013 (admit rate of 87 percent)
10. Nova Southeastern: 1,645 (admit rate of 48 percent)

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cricketlove00
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby cricketlove00 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:04 pm

It's crazy because literally 80% of the office I work in in Florida came from Barry or Nova...

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hipcatdaddio
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby hipcatdaddio » Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:57 am

There was a rumor going around the legal community in the triangle (Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill) that Charlotte was encouraging the bottom half of their class to either wait a year until they take the bar or not take it at all. Like I said, it's a rumor, but I know plenty of law firms in the Raleigh that throw every resume from Charlotte (among other schools) straight in the trash. haha.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby ScottRiqui » Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:01 am

hipcatdaddio wrote:There was a rumor going around the legal community in the triangle (Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill) that Charlotte was encouraging the bottom half of their class to either wait a year until they take the bar or not take it at all. Like I said, it's a rumor, but I know plenty of law firms in the Raleigh that throw every resume from Charlotte (among other schools) straight in the trash. haha.


Wow, I wonder how they could even begin to sell that as a good idea to the students? "I know you've graduated and your loans are going to start coming due in six months, but if you could just hold off on that whole "taking the bar" thing, that'd be great...yeah..."

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goldenboy514
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby goldenboy514 » Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:09 am

cricketlove00 wrote:It's crazy because literally 80% of the office I work in in Florida came from Barry or Nova...


Probably the reason this is all I see when I drive through Florida (especially Jacksonville)...

Image

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hipcatdaddio
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby hipcatdaddio » Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:47 am

ScottRiqui wrote:
hipcatdaddio wrote:There was a rumor going around the legal community in the triangle (Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill) that Charlotte was encouraging the bottom half of their class to either wait a year until they take the bar or not take it at all. Like I said, it's a rumor, but I know plenty of law firms in the Raleigh that throw every resume from Charlotte (among other schools) straight in the trash. haha.


Wow, I wonder how they could even begin to sell that as a good idea to the students? "I know you've graduated and your loans are going to start coming due in six months, but if you could just hold off on that whole "taking the bar" thing, that'd be great...yeah..."


I suppose the same way they've been selling people on going to their law school for the past few years. It's not like you can go to a law school like that and honestly think that you'll have a decent shot at becoming a lawyer. Their LST score report is at a whopping 30.3%

NYSprague
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby NYSprague » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:16 pm

hipcatdaddio wrote:
ScottRiqui wrote:
hipcatdaddio wrote:There was a rumor going around the legal community in the triangle (Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill) that Charlotte was encouraging the bottom half of their class to either wait a year until they take the bar or not take it at all. Like I said, it's a rumor, but I know plenty of law firms in the Raleigh that throw every resume from Charlotte (among other schools) straight in the trash. haha.


Wow, I wonder how they could even begin to sell that as a good idea to the students? "I know you've graduated and your loans are going to start coming due in six months, but if you could just hold off on that whole "taking the bar" thing, that'd be great...yeah..."


I suppose the same way they've been selling people on going to their law school for the past few years. It's not like you can go to a law school like that and honestly think that you'll have a decent shot at becoming a lawyer. Their LST score report is at a whopping 30.3%

Is that so they can stay within ABA bar passage rate requirements?

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goldenboy514
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby goldenboy514 » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:31 pm

cinephile wrote:^ Agree. It's likely Vermont.


Damn, and all this time I thought having the top environmental law program in the country was advantageous
http://www.top-law-schools.com/environm ... hools.html

xJD2017x
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby xJD2017x » Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:25 pm

Vermont will function but only with adjuncts.

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Dafaq
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby Dafaq » Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:43 pm

xJD2017x wrote:Vermont will function but only with adjuncts.

That should certainly save the school on overhead. I have a friend who supplements his income working around 10 hours a week (mostly nights) as an adjunct. He's happy with his $65 an hour and the school is undoubtedly pleased about saving money.

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hipcatdaddio
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby hipcatdaddio » Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:37 pm

NYSprague wrote:
hipcatdaddio wrote:
ScottRiqui wrote:
hipcatdaddio wrote:There was a rumor going around the legal community in the triangle (Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill) that Charlotte was encouraging the bottom half of their class to either wait a year until they take the bar or not take it at all. Like I said, it's a rumor, but I know plenty of law firms in the Raleigh that throw every resume from Charlotte (among other schools) straight in the trash. haha.


Wow, I wonder how they could even begin to sell that as a good idea to the students? "I know you've graduated and your loans are going to start coming due in six months, but if you could just hold off on that whole "taking the bar" thing, that'd be great...yeah..."


I suppose the same way they've been selling people on going to their law school for the past few years. It's not like you can go to a law school like that and honestly think that you'll have a decent shot at becoming a lawyer. Their LST score report is at a whopping 30.3%

Is that so they can stay within ABA bar passage rate requirements?


I do believe so. Not saying the NC bar is hard to pass, but it's certainly hard for the bottom half of the students that go to Charlotte Law.

MikeJD
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby MikeJD » Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:06 pm

Some school in California, there are too many there and quite a few need to shut down.

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star fox
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby star fox » Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:53 pm

MikeJD wrote:Some school in California, there are too many there and quite a few need to shut down.

Yeah you can start with whittier, golden gate, la verne, and california western.

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Tanicius
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby Tanicius » Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:55 pm

john7234797 wrote:
MikeJD wrote:Some school in California, there are too many there and quite a few need to shut down.

Yeah you can start with whittier, golden gate, la verne, and california western.


Are we only focusing on accredited schools? Cause there are way more awful schools like JFK, too.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby MikeSpivey » Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:00 pm

If anyone can figure out where I can get a spreadsheet (or at least data that I can dump into a spreadsheet) of the application numbers to each individual law schools in, say the 2008/2009 cycle (or 2009/10 if easier) I will compare versus last cycle and show how much each school has dropped. I imagine some of the most likely schools to drop off would be those that have had the greatest decrease in applications, along with the other variables mentioned above (manly free standing, not supported by central university, etc).

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Manteca
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Re: Which Law Schools will close down first?

Postby Manteca » Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:00 pm

john7234797 wrote:
MikeJD wrote:Some school in California, there are too many there and quite a few need to shut down.

Yeah you can start with whittier, golden gate, la verne, and california western.


don't forget TJSL




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