Full rides at Tier 2 vs. higher ranked Tier 1/2s

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KLewi3790
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Full rides at Tier 2 vs. higher ranked Tier 1/2s

Postby KLewi3790 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:13 pm

So I've been given pretty solid scholarships at several Tier 2 and some Tier 1 schools. I'm having trouble figuring out how I should make a decision... should I go off highest ranked or most money, a mix of both? I'm interested in Public Interest/going back into the non-profit sector....

Schools:

Fordham: 25k a year, no stipulations
GW: 35k a year, no stipulations
Temple: Full ride (must stay in top 2/3 of class)
Villanova: Full ride, no stipulations
Cardozo: Full ride

#s: LSAT: 167, GPA: 3.65

Still waiting to hear back from Cornell, Michigan, American, & Columbia (very unlikely).

empyreanrrv
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Re: Full rides at Tier 2 vs. higher ranked Tier 1/2s

Postby empyreanrrv » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:27 pm

Judging from your selection I'm guessing you want to work in the mid-Atlantic region?

I would go with GW. Better scholarship and stronger public interest than Fordham. You'll still be looking at ~90k in debt though. Temple might be a safer bet, but I don't know what Philly COL is. I wouldn't go to Villanova or Cardozo.

crit_racer
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Re: Full rides at Tier 2 vs. higher ranked Tier 1/2s

Postby crit_racer » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:31 pm

I agree...GW is probably the best move. Still a bit expensive, but not too bad (i.e. biglaw wouldn't be an absolute necessity to pay off the debt)

09042014
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Re: Full rides at Tier 2 vs. higher ranked Tier 1/2s

Postby 09042014 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:38 pm

T14 or Free.

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HBBJohnStamos
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Re: Full rides at Tier 2 vs. higher ranked Tier 1/2s

Postby HBBJohnStamos » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:41 pm

Desert Fox wrote:T14 or Free.

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romothesavior
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Re: Full rides at Tier 2 vs. higher ranked Tier 1/2s

Postby romothesavior » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:46 pm

Where are you from and where do you want to work? GW is probably your best bet of these schools, or maybe Nova/Temple if you're from the area.

How many times have you taken the LSAT? 2-3 points would completely change the game for you, and assuming you've only taken once or even twice, I think retake/reapply is easily the credited move.

KLewi3790
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Re: Full rides at Tier 2 vs. higher ranked Tier 1/2s

Postby KLewi3790 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:50 pm

I'm originally from Dallas, Texas but have no interest in returning. I'd like to stay on the East coast and wouldn't mind settling down in Philly. I graduated from Bryn Mawr and am very familiar with the Philly area.

I've taken the LSAT once so I could potentially re-take, although I'd really love to start school in the fall as opposed to waiting another year.

KLewi3790
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Re: Full rides at Tier 2 vs. higher ranked Tier 1/2s

Postby KLewi3790 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:53 pm

Also
KLewi3790 wrote:So I've been given pretty solid scholarships at several Tier 2 and some Tier 1 schools. I'm having trouble figuring out how I should make a decision... should I go off highest ranked or most money, a mix of both? I'm interested in Public Interest/going back into the non-profit sector....

Schools:

Fordham: 25k a year, no stipulations
GW: 35k a year, no stipulations
Temple: Full ride (must stay in top 2/3 of class)
Villanova: Full ride, no stipulations
Cardozo: Full ride

#s: LSAT: 167, GPA: 3.65

Still waiting to hear back from Cornell, Michigan, American, & Columbia (very unlikely).


Also, typo above.... I got 25k a year from GW, not 35k (I wishhh)

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romothesavior
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Re: Full rides at Tier 2 vs. higher ranked Tier 1/2s

Postby romothesavior » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:53 pm

KLewi3790 wrote:I'm originally from Dallas, Texas but have no interest in returning. I'd like to stay on the East coast and wouldn't mind settling down in Philly. I graduated from Bryn Mawr and am very familiar with the Philly area.

I've taken the LSAT once so I could potentially re-take, although I'd really love to start school in the fall as opposed to waiting another year.

I certainly understand the feeling, but you're looking at potentially doubling or tripling your employment prospects and/or getting lots more scholarship money. Even a point or two could help tip the scales and get you into some T14s. I would recommend reading about some of the success stories on TLS of people who decided to wait out a year and saw huge returns on that decision.

ETA: After seeing that you only got 25k from GW, I don't think it's worth it.

empyreanrrv
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Re: Full rides at Tier 2 vs. higher ranked Tier 1/2s

Postby empyreanrrv » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:00 pm

Retaking and trying for a higher score is the safest move. As romo said, a few points can easily vault you into the T14 where PI is a more realistic outcome or increase scholarships to give you more financial flexibility upon graduation.

That said, your cycle is scary to me, but not bad. There is no guarantee you'll increase in the LSAT and if you remove yourself from this cycle, I don't know what the chances of you getting the same scholarships will be. If someone can show that re-applicants fare roughly the same with no increase to LSAT or GPA, I think it would make no sense not to retake. If re-applicants fare worse, you will have to decide if you are comfortable with your options.

Just saw you updated-- 25k a year from GW adds an additional 30k to your debt and puts you over into 120ish, which starts to become very scary. I would definitely try to retake.

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romothesavior
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Re: Full rides at Tier 2 vs. higher ranked Tier 1/2s

Postby romothesavior » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:09 pm

Law School Transparency cites GW's full cost of attendance (tuition + fees + cost of living + interest while in school) at $278,000. While that figure seems a little high to me, I do think GW's non-discounted COA is probably at least 225-250k even if you live frugally while in law school, which means a 75k total scholarship is only going to get you to 150k, at a minimum.

empyreanrrv
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Re: Full rides at Tier 2 vs. higher ranked Tier 1/2s

Postby empyreanrrv » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:22 pm

I was just thinking of tuition and COL, but you're right that there are a lot of other expenses that add up. At 150k debt it would be a very risky gamble, and worth a retake. The current one is not an offer that the OP cannot refuse.

313DetroitLove
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Re: Full rides at Tier 2 vs. higher ranked Tier 1/2s

Postby 313DetroitLove » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:03 am

HBBJohnStamos wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:T14 or Free.


+1

Free is the way to be. Spend your money on stupid shit like an iphone 5 and nice business attire, not tuition.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Full rides at Tier 2 vs. higher ranked Tier 1/2s

Postby somewhatwayward » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:52 pm

These choices are not so great. Neither Fordham nor GW are worth the 150K you are stuck taking out for the remaining tuition and living expenses (unless you have savings?). You are definitely someone who should retake bc it sounds like you have not maxed out your potential. You are leaving hundreds of thousands of dollars in scholarship money and increased salary post law school on the table. Wanting to go this year instead of next is not a good reason to not retake but if you feel strongly abt going next year, at least retake in June as a scholarship bargaining tool with the schools you are admitted to (and it could get you off WLs).

One thing you should do is play GW/F off each other since they are essentially peers. Go to Fordham first and tell them you got 25K/year from GW which is hard to pass up but you really want to be in NYC but it is still too much debt (start w how you are thrilled to have been accepted and were honored and excited to receive what you did get). Then take Fordham's offer to GW and do the same thing. Even if you get a full scholarship you are still looking at paying 80-100K in living expenses in these expensive cities, including interest. That level if debt is right around where some may feel comfortable w these schools (I would not personally).

Here is the thing. Schools like Fordham and GW this cycle are going to be hurting in April/May when they see that their medians are dropping faster than you can say USNWR-pwned. They have big classes to fill and your 167 coupled w a good GPA will be super tempting for them. They will get desperate. But this requires holding out on your part and being willing to walk away if the offer isn't high enough. (You basically say 'I love Fordham and appreciate your offer very much but I am not enrolling bc it is not feasible for me financially' - in April when you are supposed to enroll. I would say there is a 90% chance either F or GW will come back to you with more money if you do that. It is true you risk not going to any school since you are telling them you're not enrolling but this goes back to what I was saying above - not maximizing your school and scholarship money bc you want to go this year instead of next is short-sighted).

reverendt
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Re: Full rides at Tier 2 vs. higher ranked Tier 1/2s

Postby reverendt » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:46 pm

I'd take 'nova or Cardozo, dependant on whether you want to work in NYC or Philly.

Plan to live cheaply to minimize debt.

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Micdiddy
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Re: Full rides at Tier 2 vs. higher ranked Tier 1/2s

Postby Micdiddy » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:37 pm

Definitely retake. With a 170+ LSAT you can not only guarantee a T14 but likely get just as much money at one that you are getting now at GW/Fordham.

samn
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Re: Full rides at Tier 2 vs. higher ranked Tier 1/2s

Postby samn » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:55 pm

Does the "T-14 or free" rule apply to University of Texas (ranked 15), if you want to work in Texas and are from out of state?

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Full rides at Tier 2 vs. higher ranked Tier 1/2s

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:37 pm

I would retake if you feel that you can do better. Otherwise, I'd go to Temple.

09042014
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Re: Full rides at Tier 2 vs. higher ranked Tier 1/2s

Postby 09042014 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:40 pm

samn wrote:Does the "T-14 or free" rule apply to University of Texas (ranked 15), if you want to work in Texas and are from out of state?


Gray area. It's a step below T14, but a step above TTT.

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spleenworship
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Re: Full rides at Tier 2 vs. higher ranked Tier 1/2s

Postby spleenworship » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:34 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:I would retake if you feel that you can do better. Otherwise, I'd go to Temple.




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