How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Where should I go?

CLS @ sticker
13
12%
UT w/ full scholly
33
31%
NW w/ full scholly
61
57%
 
Total votes: 107

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TexasAggie13
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How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby TexasAggie13 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:15 pm

I need some advice. I just got in to Columbia, which I am totally psyched about, but I will almost certainly be paying sticker. I am fairly debt averse, and my end goal is to practice in TX. I know CLS is a way better school with way better job prospects than UT overall, but if I want to end up in TX anyway should I take a full scholly at UT and stay close to friends/family and be debt free or live in NYC for 3 years and try to move back down south after I graduate? I checked lawschooltransparency.com and all the information they have is that 60% of CLS grads stay in NY, and about 10% go to CA and DC. FWIW I also have a full ride at Northwestern, had an interview last week with UChicago that I think went really well, and am still waiting from Penn, NYU, SLS, and HLS. Any advice would be appreciated, thanks!

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Rahviveh
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby Rahviveh » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:16 pm

Why do you think you'll be paying sticker? LSN sucks right now but I bet you'll get 60-75k. This thread is premature.
Last edited by Rahviveh on Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ManOfTheMinute
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby ManOfTheMinute » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:16 pm

TexasAggie13 wrote:I need some advice. I just got in to Columbia, which I am totally psyched about, but I will almost certainly be paying sticker. I am fairly debt averse, and my end goal is to practice in TX. I know CLS is a way better school with way better job prospects than UT overall, but if I want to end up in TX anyway should I take a full scholly at UT and stay close to friends/family and be debt free or live in NYC for 3 years and try to move back down south after I graduate? I checked lawschooltransparency.com and all the information they have is that 60% of CLS grads stay in NY, and about 10% go to CA and DC. FWIW I also have a full ride at Northwestern, had an interview last week with UChicago that I think went really well, and am still waiting from Penn, NYU, SLS, and HLS. Any advice would be appreciated, thanks!


Dude... if you're sure you want TX, I would do UT 100%

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helix23
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby helix23 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:20 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:Why do you think you'll be paying sticker? LSN sucks right now but I bet you'll get 60-75k. This thread is premature.


Why do you think 60-75k?

Based on http://www.mylsn.info/graph_money.php, 172/3.8 averaged about 30k over the last three cycles.

/wish lsn was working

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Emma.
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby Emma. » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:20 pm

ManOfTheMinute wrote:
Dude... if you're sure you want TX, I would do UT 100%

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BruceWayne
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby BruceWayne » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:21 pm

If you're from Texas (which it sounds like you are) go to Northwestern for free. If you're not got to UT for free. Columbia isn't worth talking about unless they also give you a free ride. The 60-70K that someone mentioned you might receive, if that is in fact what they end up offering you, isn't even close to being enough to take Columbia in your situation.

Texas firms will go deeper into NU and Columbia's class for someone with Texas ties than they will UT. But NU vs. Columbia is another story. If there's a difference it's going to be one that isn't worth talking about. I'd go with NU unless Columbia comes with the full ride too.

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Rahviveh
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby Rahviveh » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:24 pm

helix23 wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:Why do you think you'll be paying sticker? LSN sucks right now but I bet you'll get 60-75k. This thread is premature.


Why do you think 60-75k?

Based on http://www.mylsn.info/graph_money.php, 172/3.8 averaged about 30k over the last three cycles.

/wish lsn was working


I stand corrected. I forgot how stingy CLS can be.

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Drake014
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby Drake014 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:25 pm

Northwestern. See the world a little.

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bizzybone1313
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby bizzybone1313 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:29 pm

Great, unbelievable idea for a thread OP!!!! I have been wondering the same thing for a very long time. What about if OP wants portability for the future? Say, one day, he or she wants to move to DC or LA all of the sudden. Wouldn't a T-6 with a lot of money be the credited response? Isn't a degree from UT sort of a risky bet in this economy? If OP were to graduate anywhere around median from Columbia, isn't it true he would easily be able to get a job in Texas because major law firms would soil themselves to get Columbia graduates to come down here? Isn't it true that Big Law firms have a hard time getting people from T-6 schools to work here in Texas?

Discuss TLS. For the love of God, please discuss.

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helix23
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby helix23 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:36 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:Great, unbelievable idea for a thread OP!!!! I have been wondering the same thing for a very long time. What about if OP wants portability for the future? Say, one day, he or she wants to move to DC or LA all of the sudden. Wouldn't a T-6 with a lot of money be the credited response? Isn't a degree from UT sort of a risky bet in this economy? If OP were to graduate anywhere around median from Columbia, isn't it true he would easily be able to get a job in Texas because major law firms would soil themselves to get Columbia graduates to come down here? Isn't it true that Big Law firms have a hard time getting people from T-6 schools to work here in Texas?

Discuss TLS. For the love of God, please discuss.


It would be TCR if it were a possibility. But a lot of money from T6 is not part of this discussion.

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bizzybone1313
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby bizzybone1313 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:37 pm

helix23 wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:Great, unbelievable idea for a thread OP!!!! I have been wondering the same thing for a very long time. What about if OP wants portability for the future? Say, one day, he or she wants to move to DC or LA all of the sudden. Wouldn't a T-6 with a lot of money be the credited response? Isn't a degree from UT sort of a risky bet in this economy? If OP were to graduate anywhere around median from Columbia, isn't it true he would easily be able to get a job in Texas because major law firms would soil themselves to get Columbia graduates to come down here? Isn't it true that Big Law firms have a hard time getting people from T-6 schools to work here in Texas?

Discuss TLS. For the love of God, please discuss.


It would be TCR if it were a possibility. But a lot of money from T6 is not part of this discussion.


What about the prestige of Columbia versus UT in Texas? Wouldn't OP have a much easier time getting a very good job in Texas due to Columbia?

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Drake014
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby Drake014 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:40 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:
helix23 wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:Great, unbelievable idea for a thread OP!!!! I have been wondering the same thing for a very long time. What about if OP wants portability for the future? Say, one day, he or she wants to move to DC or LA all of the sudden. Wouldn't a T-6 with a lot of money be the credited response? Isn't a degree from UT sort of a risky bet in this economy? If OP were to graduate anywhere around median from Columbia, isn't it true he would easily be able to get a job in Texas because major law firms would soil themselves to get Columbia graduates to come down here? Isn't it true that Big Law firms have a hard time getting people from T-6 schools to work here in Texas?

Discuss TLS. For the love of God, please discuss.


It would be TCR if it were a possibility. But a lot of money from T6 is not part of this discussion.


What about the prestige of Columbia versus UT in Texas? Wouldn't OP have a much easier time getting a very good job in Texas due to Columbia?


Much easier? No. Somewhat easier? Possibly. My anecdotal experience is that uncommon prestigious law degrees actually do well in regions you don't find them in normally.

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ManOfTheMinute
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby ManOfTheMinute » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:47 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:
helix23 wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:Great, unbelievable idea for a thread OP!!!! I have been wondering the same thing for a very long time. What about if OP wants portability for the future? Say, one day, he or she wants to move to DC or LA all of the sudden. Wouldn't a T-6 with a lot of money be the credited response? Isn't a degree from UT sort of a risky bet in this economy? If OP were to graduate anywhere around median from Columbia, isn't it true he would easily be able to get a job in Texas because major law firms would soil themselves to get Columbia graduates to come down here? Isn't it true that Big Law firms have a hard time getting people from T-6 schools to work here in Texas?

Discuss TLS. For the love of God, please discuss.


It would be TCR if it were a possibility. But a lot of money from T6 is not part of this discussion.


What about the prestige of Columbia versus UT in Texas? Wouldn't OP have a much easier time getting a very good job in Texas due to Columbia?


Its not like we're talking about a TTT like the University of SouthNorthern Texas -- UT is a wanna be T14. It holds really substantial weight in Texas. Texas is the type of state where people usually know they want to live there, so a good % of big law/little law/judges went to schools in Texas. I would recomment HYS over UT, but not by a long shot. CLS stands no chance, let alone without a full ride. Sure, CLS is rare in Texas, but so are CLS-alumni.

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banjo
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby banjo » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:48 pm

Assuming you're actually facing sticker at CLS, I would go with Northwestern full-ride. That's a huge price difference.

(FD: still waiting on CLS)

Ti Malice
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby Ti Malice » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:49 pm

UT with a full ride makes no sense if you have Texas ties and a full ride at Northwestern. Columbia shouldn't even be part of this discussion.

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BelugaWhale
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby BelugaWhale » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:49 pm

Go to columbia.

I go to HYS and I got offers from big 3 in texas without grades. Sole factor was because of my HYS credentials. When I interviewed there I met tons of UT people and all of them had to wait for grades before they were offered (or not). In fact, off the top of my head, out of 8 openings for a certain firm, 5 of them were filled before people from T5. The UT people had to fight for the remaining 3 spots.

This is for 1L SA obviously.

But go to columbia, itll make your job search in texas so much easier

edit: forgot about NW, go there if you want, but dont go to UT

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helix23
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby helix23 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:51 pm

TexasAggie13 wrote:I need some advice. I just got in to Columbia, which I am totally psyched about, but I will almost certainly be paying sticker. I am fairly debt averse, and my end goal is to practice in TX. I know CLS is a way better school with way better job prospects than UT overall, but if I want to end up in TX anyway should I take a full scholly at UT and stay close to friends/family and be debt free or live in NYC for 3 years and try to move back down south after I graduate? I checked lawschooltransparency.com and all the information they have is that 60% of CLS grads stay in NY, and about 10% go to CA and DC. FWIW I also have a full ride at Northwestern, had an interview last week with UChicago that I think went really well, and am still waiting from Penn, NYU, SLS, and HLS. Any advice would be appreciated, thanks!


OP how do you have a full ride at NU already? I thought they didn't start awarding scholarships until March.

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BruceWayne
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby BruceWayne » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:52 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:Great, unbelievable idea for a thread OP!!!! I have been wondering the same thing for a very long time. What about if OP wants portability for the future? Say, one day, he or she wants to move to DC or LA all of the sudden. Wouldn't a T-6 with a lot of money be the credited response? Isn't a degree from UT sort of a risky bet in this economy? If OP were to graduate anywhere around median from Columbia, isn't it true he would easily be able to get a job in Texas because major law firms would soil themselves to get Columbia graduates to come down here? Isn't it true that Big Law firms have a hard time getting people from T-6 schools to work here in Texas?

Discuss TLS. For the love of God, please discuss.


You need to get rid of this mentality very quickly. This isn't fall 2005--no major law firms anywhere are "soiling themselves" for graduates of any non HYS law school (and even then I wouldn't describe it quite like that). The only thing major law firms are "soiling" on are the applications of below median non HYS law students. And I'm not even an expert on Texas biglaw and even I know that the big players inDallas, Austin, and Houston (like Vinson Elkins, Fulbright, Hayboo etc.) are not having ANY trouble getting people from so called "Top 6" schools to come work for them.

Also if the OP wants "portability" in the future he/she better not pull below median grades at any of these schools--it's amazing how regional a top 14 law degree comes once you get below median grades.

I really would go to NU for free over UT though. Those Texas firms are almost certainly going to want you to be in the top 1/3. I'll go back and check my Northwestern charts but it should be at least a little better from there.

Just checked my NU GPA charts for the Texas firms and to be honest it's not even looking that great there either. Vinson and Elkins dipped to a 3.27 in fall of 09 (thus ITE) but Fulbright and Baker both had median GPAs of over a 3.8 and the latter has a min of a 3.5. You really might want to see if you can get into one of HYS.
Last edited by BruceWayne on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Ti Malice
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby Ti Malice » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:52 pm

ManOfTheMinute wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:
helix23 wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:Great, unbelievable idea for a thread OP!!!! I have been wondering the same thing for a very long time. What about if OP wants portability for the future? Say, one day, he or she wants to move to DC or LA all of the sudden. Wouldn't a T-6 with a lot of money be the credited response? Isn't a degree from UT sort of a risky bet in this economy? If OP were to graduate anywhere around median from Columbia, isn't it true he would easily be able to get a job in Texas because major law firms would soil themselves to get Columbia graduates to come down here? Isn't it true that Big Law firms have a hard time getting people from T-6 schools to work here in Texas?

Discuss TLS. For the love of God, please discuss.


It would be TCR if it were a possibility. But a lot of money from T6 is not part of this discussion.


What about the prestige of Columbia versus UT in Texas? Wouldn't OP have a much easier time getting a very good job in Texas due to Columbia?


Its not like we're talking about a TTT like the University of SouthNorthern Texas -- UT is a wanna be T14. It holds really substantial weight in Texas. Texas is the type of state where people usually know they want to live there, so a good % of big law/little law/judges went to schools in Texas. I would recomment HYS over UT, but not by a long shot. CLS stands no chance, let alone without a full ride. Sure, CLS is rare in Texas, but so are CLS-alumni.


Texas legal hiring is not nearly as parochial as you're making it out to be. Someone with Texas ties will stand a better chance of getting Texas BigLaw from Northwestern than from UT.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:55 pm

People on TLS have a weird hard-on for CLS and seem to think the name carries way more weight than it actually does. It's a good school but is much more akin to the rest of the top ten or so schools than it is to HYS in terms of job placement. So adjust your thinking accordingly.

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bizzybone1313
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby bizzybone1313 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:57 pm

I personally know about a half dozen people that graduated from UT law. A lot of them told me I should be real, real careful about enrolling at UT. UT is probably the safest bet out of the T-20 schools-- due to low in-state tuition and COL-- but that doesn't mean it is a smart decision. By attending UT, isn't OP essentially locking himself out of prestigious legal employment unless he is like top 5%-10% which isn't likely to happen?

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BruceWayne
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby BruceWayne » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:02 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:I personally know about a half dozen people that graduated from UT law. A lot of them told me I should be real, real careful about enrolling at UT. UT is probably the safest bet out of the T-20 schools-- due to low in-state tuition and COL-- but that doesn't mean it is a smart decision. By attending UT, isn't OP essentially locking himself out of prestigious legal employment unless he is like top 5%-10% which isn't likely to happen?


You're basically right. But the big thing that you're missing is that this goes for the non HYS top 14 as well. People really don't understand. This is a legal downturn of epic proportions. Further, TLS always sort of overhyped the non HYS top schools. If you pull below median grades at ANY non HYS you are in trouble. Honestly, the guy who said that people on here have too much of a hard on for Columbia is right. Columbia is a beast in NYC--no doubt. But once you leave the Manhattan area employers really don't view it as some sort of borderline Harvard. They will care about your grades in a way that they won't if you attend HYS. Basically if they see below median you should start sweating.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:18 pm

Go find something fun to do for a year and enjoy Northwestern. The temptation to go to Texas will likely be there but you'll be happy you took that year off.

dabbadon8
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby dabbadon8 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:22 pm

Anecdotally, everyone I know from texas at my t14 has 2L biglaw SAs in texas, and if I remember correctly, also had 1L SAs. Being from texas and being willing to work there seems to be a big advantage in the job search. This may mitigate the advantage of going to Columbia with more debt.

nebula666
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Re: How marketable is a Columbia degree outside of NY?

Postby nebula666 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:22 pm

You already have the ties to TX so I would say NU. You may end up liking Chicago anyway.




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