Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

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matrim
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Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby matrim » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:19 pm

So here is a hypothetical (facts have been changed a bit for privacy). What are thoughts between Berkeley LS and Notre Dame LS for someone who: Cost is not an issue, Have secured a job through a family connection post graduation, and cares mostly about how well known the school is throughout the country. Someone who is super conservative and wants to work in South Dakota (where connection for job is). At this point I care mostly about overall prestige, Most people in South Dakota have no idea that places like U Chicago, Mich are top “law” schools, but they know of ND and Berk. I think that I would be happier at ND, but berk is ranked higher in the TLS world. Any thoughts? (oh and jury is still out on a few other schools, but thoughts on these two schools?) No numbers, sorry folks, if that upsets you, feel free not to post a reply! Thanks.

bchirco
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Re: Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby bchirco » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:26 pm

Well it sounds like you are all about ND so go there if that would make you comfortable. However, if you want to go to a school with better odds of landing a job not in South Dakota here are the employment stats.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=berkeley

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=notredame

Not choosing Berkeley is the wrong answer imo.

Also, idk what you stats you got but retake.

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Dmini7
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Re: Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby Dmini7 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:27 pm

matrim wrote:So here is a hypothetical (facts have been changed a bit for privacy). What are thoughts between Berkeley LS and Notre Dame LS for someone who: Cost is not an issue, Have secured a job through a family connection post graduation, and cares mostly about how well known the school is throughout the country. Someone who is super conservative and wants to work in South Dakota (where connection for job is). At this point I care mostly about overall prestige, Most people in South Dakota have no idea that places like U Chicago, Mich are top “law” schools, but they know of ND and Berk. I think that I would be happier at ND, but berk is ranked higher in the TLS world. Any thoughts? (oh and jury is still out on a few other schools, but thoughts on these two schools?) No numbers, sorry folks, if that upsets you, feel free not to post a reply! Thanks.


Since we are talking about South Dakota, I vote for ND. With that said, since cost is not an issue, choosing not to go to Berkeley is an absolute mistake in my mind. You may decide you don't want to live in South Dakota after spending three years elsewhere. It's very unwise to downgrade in your school choice under the assumption that you will want the same thing at the end of law school that you wanted at the beginning of law school. With that said, I am not knowledgeable about South Dakota, but I would assume they are not too familiar with Berkeley, and I also assume(I could very well be wrong since I have never been nor had an interest to go to South Dakota) it is a more conservative state and Berkeley, being one of the more liberal schools in the nation would not carry the same positive connotation that ND does. So although I think my advice is truly the wrong advice assuming prices to attend each school are equal, I think in your situation and since you personally would be happier at ND, it is the answer you are looking for.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:34 pm

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Last edited by Myself on Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

matrim
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Re: Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby matrim » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:42 pm

bchirco wrote:Well it sounds like you are all about ND so go there if that would make you comfortable. However, if you want to go to a school with better odds of landing a job not in South Dakota here are the employment stats.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=berkeley

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=notredame

Not choosing Berkeley is the wrong answer imo.

Also, idk what you stats you got but retake.


Not sure why you say I am "all about ND", but I appreciate the employment stats. Do you think outside of employement, thier reputations are drast difference (for the everyday person)? Thanks

matrim
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Re: Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby matrim » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:46 pm

Dmini7 wrote:
Since we are talking about South Dakota, I vote for ND. With that said, since cost is not an issue, choosing not to go to Berkeley is an absolute mistake in my mind. You may decide you don't want to live in South Dakota after spending three years elsewhere. It's very unwise to downgrade in your school choice under the assumption that you will want the same thing at the end of law school that you wanted at the beginning of law school. With that said, I am not knowledgeable about South Dakota, but I would assume they are not too familiar with Berkeley, and I also assume(I could very well be wrong since I have never been nor had an interest to go to South Dakota) it is a more conservative state and Berkeley, being one of the more liberal schools in the nation would not carry the same positive connotation that ND does. So although I think my advice is truly the wrong advice assuming prices to attend each school are equal, I think in your situation and since you personally would be happier at ND, it is the answer you are looking for.


Thanks for the perspective...good points.
ajax adonis wrote:I would Berkeley. Even if you are conservative, having the Cal credential will make you more credible to everyone else outside of South Dakota.
So you are saying that Berk is more credible outside of SD than notre dame is...what about to every day person who knows nothing about TLS US news, do you think the cred. difference is huge? Thanks

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Bronck
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Re: Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby Bronck » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:46 pm

This post is stupid. Why do you care about some faint notion of prestige when you already have a job locked up (is this through family? or else, I wouldn't say you've secured a job)? Even if cost is "no issue", go to the cheapest place possible -- there's no point wasting money on something that won't give you any benefit.

I call flame if you care about lay prestige this much

nebula666
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Re: Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby nebula666 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:47 pm

I'm conservative so I don't care at all about cost :roll:

matrim
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Re: Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby matrim » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:51 pm

Bronck wrote:This post is stupid. Why do you care about some faint notion of prestige when you already have a job locked up (is this through family? or else, I wouldn't say you've secured a job)? Even if cost is "no issue", go to the cheapest place possible -- there's no point wasting money on something that won't give you any benefit.

I call flame if you care about lay prestige this much


If you read my orignal post you would see I have a job through FAMILY connection. I care for prestige for potentially politics later down the road.

nebula666 wrote:I'm conservative so I don't care at all about cost :roll:
The reason I mentioned conservative is that I am unsure I would be happy at a place that is notoriously liberal, not to say that cost isnt an issue. I secured finances, so cost is not an issue!

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Bronck
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Re: Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby Bronck » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:52 pm

matrim wrote:If you read my orignal post you would see I have a job through FAMILY connection. I care for prestige for potentially politics later down the road.


That's not going to happen anyway.

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Dmini7
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Re: Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby Dmini7 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:03 pm

Bronck wrote:
matrim wrote:If you read my orignal post you would see I have a job through FAMILY connection. I care for prestige for potentially politics later down the road.


That's not going to happen anyway.


I do not want to sound ignorant, but it really depends on who you are trying to cater towards for the politics. Is it politics within the state of SD? If so ND. Are you targeting a group of individuals focused on college football? ND. Are you targeting a more liberal base, or an area that has a strong emphasis or concentration on individuals with secondary education and graduate school? Berkeley. In the end assuming you have the ability to land a job in politics, you need to play the game right now. determine who/what your target audience is and figure out how to maneuver yourself to best entice them to choose you over another candidate.

bchirco
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Re: Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby bchirco » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:21 pm

Berkeley > ND. T14 is a better name. Plus you will be working for law firms not wal marts. Just saying

matrim
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Re: Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby matrim » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:25 pm

Dmini7 wrote:
Bronck wrote:
matrim wrote:If you read my orignal post you would see I have a job through FAMILY connection. I care for prestige for potentially politics later down the road.




I do not want to sound ignorant, but it really depends on who you are trying to cater towards for the politics. Is it politics within the state of SD? If so ND. Are you targeting a group of individuals focused on college football? ND. Are you targeting a more liberal base, or an area that has a strong emphasis or concentration on individuals with secondary education and graduate school? Berkeley. In the end assuming you have the ability to land a job in politics, you need to play the game right now. determine who/what your target audience is and figure out how to maneuver yourself to best entice them to choose you over another candidate.


Thanks great point. I appreciate it.

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cinephile
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Re: Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby cinephile » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:28 pm

Why wasn't Northwestern an option? You get the midwest lay prestige and the better school.

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star fox
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Re: Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby star fox » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:50 pm

Do you have W.E.? If so look to Northwestern if you want lay prestige. If your family is paying for LS (or you're a former lottery winner) then just go wherever will make you happy. Anyone within the "Law" world knows Cal > ND but people in the business world might not because Notre Dame has an elite undergrad business school so they may assume it's similar for Law School.

matrim
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Re: Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby matrim » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:50 pm

cinephile wrote:Why wasn't Northwestern an option? You get the midwest lay prestige and the better school.

I have a app in with Northwestern right now. My biggest worry is that a lot of people in South Dakota have heard of NW, but a lot have not or dont really associate with it as a top school. Im sure a bit more east of me, people would be shocked to hear this since NW has a bit Midwest reach.

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20130312
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Re: Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby 20130312 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:51 pm

No numbers.

No acceptances.

No point to this thread.

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bluepenguin
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Re: Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby bluepenguin » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:58 pm

If you're certain that every legal job you'll ever need can be guaranteed via nepotism and that you never want to work in law or politics outside of South Dakota, I find it hard to suggest Berkeley over ND. Otherwise T14>ND, without question.

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby bizzybone1313 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:59 pm

john7234797 wrote:Do you have W.E.? If so look to Northwestern if you want lay prestige. If your family is paying for LS (or you're a former lottery winner) then just go wherever will make you happy. Anyone within the "Law" world knows Cal > ND but people in the business world might not because Notre Dame has an elite undergrad business school so they may assume it's similar for Law School.


Bar none, Notre Dame along with Duke are among the most overrated schools in the entire country. UT-Austin should get a lot more attention than those two schools. Besides Richard Nixon, I cannot easily think of any other graduate from Duke that has accomplished anything of significance in this country. All Duke should be known for is producing a bunch of underperforming scrubs in the NBA. I would take Berkeley in a second.

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dingbat
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Re: Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby dingbat » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:01 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:
john7234797 wrote:Do you have W.E.? If so look to Northwestern if you want lay prestige. If your family is paying for LS (or you're a former lottery winner) then just go wherever will make you happy. Anyone within the "Law" world knows Cal > ND but people in the business world might not because Notre Dame has an elite undergrad business school so they may assume it's similar for Law School.


Bar none, Notre Dame along with Duke are among the most overrated schools in the entire country. UT-Austin should get a lot more attention than those two schools. Besides Richard Nixon, I cannot easily think of any other graduate from Duke that has accomplished anything of significance in this country. All Duke should be known for is producing a bunch of underperforming scrubs in the NBA. I would take Berkeley in a second.

I think Duke is more well-known for its frats

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star fox
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Re: Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby star fox » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:03 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:
john7234797 wrote:Do you have W.E.? If so look to Northwestern if you want lay prestige. If your family is paying for LS (or you're a former lottery winner) then just go wherever will make you happy. Anyone within the "Law" world knows Cal > ND but people in the business world might not because Notre Dame has an elite undergrad business school so they may assume it's similar for Law School.


Bar none, Notre Dame along with Duke are among the most overrated schools in the entire country. UT-Austin should get a lot more attention than those two schools. Besides Richard Nixon, I cannot easily think of any other graduate from Duke that has accomplished anything of significance in this country. All Duke should be known for is producing a bunch of underperforming scrubs in the NBA. I would take Berkeley in a second.


Yeah, I agree but it's likely due to the disconnect between those schools undergraduate strength (very difficult to get in, need top grades and SAT/ACT score) but are not quite as good in terms of professional and graduate programs. Few other schools like this. Think Rice, WashUSTL, Emory).

BigZuck
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Re: Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby BigZuck » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:13 pm

WTF is with the (non-joking) anti-Duke trolling? And how is UT a better law school? Employment statistics say otherwise.

As for the OP, since he/she wants to go into politics, retake until you get into Harvard.

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20130312
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Re: Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby 20130312 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:18 pm

BigZuck wrote:WTF is with the (non-joking) anti-Duke trolling? And how is UT a better law school? Employment statistics say otherwise.

As for the OP, since he/she wants to go into politics, retake until you get into Harvard.

http://gawker.com/5981941/outrage-at-du ... cist-rager

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby bizzybone1313 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:24 pm

BigZuck wrote:WTF is with the (non-joking) anti-Duke trolling? And how is UT a better law school? Employment statistics say otherwise.

As for the OP, since he/she wants to go into politics, retake until you get into Harvard.


UT Law Notable Alumni:

Robert B. Anderson—United States Secretary of Treasury
William R. Archer—United States Representative from Texas (1971–2001) Chairman of House Ways and Means Committee
James Baker—former Secretary of State; former United States Secretary of Treasury; former White House Chief of Staff
Paul Begala—political consultant, commentator and former advisor to President Bill Clinton
Lloyd Bentsen—former Secretary of the Treasury and United States Senator; former Chair of US Senate Committee on Finance; former candidate for US Vice President.
John B. Connally, Jr.—former Governor of Texas, former Secretary of the Navy, former Secretary of the Treasury
Tom Connally—former United States Senator from Texas
Gustavo C. Garcia, Carlos Cadena, James DeAnda - Attorneys for landmark 1950's civil rights case Hernandez v. Texas, which determined that Hispanics have Equal Protection under the 14th Amendment
Kay Bailey Hutchison—senior United States Senator from Texas
Federico Peña—former Secretary of Transportation and Secretary of Energy; former Mayor of Denver
Morris Sheppard - U.S. Senator, author of the Eighteenth Amendment
Robert Schwarz Strauss—former United States Ambassador to Russia; former United States Trade Representative; Former Chair of the Democratic National Committee
Kristen Silverberg—U.S. Ambassador to the European Union
Morris Sheppard—former United States Senator from Texas
Sarah Weddington—represented Jane Roe in the landmark Supreme Court case Roe v. Wade
Bill White—former Mayor of the City of Houston

There are a bunch of more people, but I just chose the most prominent ones.

BigZuck
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Re: Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!!

Postby BigZuck » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:27 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:WTF is with the (non-joking) anti-Duke trolling? And how is UT a better law school? Employment statistics say otherwise.

As for the OP, since he/she wants to go into politics, retake until you get into Harvard.


UT Law Notable Alumni:

Robert B. Anderson—United States Secretary of Treasury
William R. Archer—United States Representative from Texas (1971–2001) Chairman of House Ways and Means Committee
James Baker—former Secretary of State; former United States Secretary of Treasury; former White House Chief of Staff
Paul Begala—political consultant, commentator and former advisor to President Bill Clinton
Lloyd Bentsen—former Secretary of the Treasury and United States Senator; former Chair of US Senate Committee on Finance; former candidate for US Vice President.
John B. Connally, Jr.—former Governor of Texas, former Secretary of the Navy, former Secretary of the Treasury
Tom Connally—former United States Senator from Texas
Gustavo C. Garcia, Carlos Cadena, James DeAnda - Attorneys for landmark 1950's civil rights case Hernandez v. Texas, which determined that Hispanics have Equal Protection under the 14th Amendment
Kay Bailey Hutchison—senior United States Senator from Texas
Federico Peña—former Secretary of Transportation and Secretary of Energy; former Mayor of Denver
Morris Sheppard - U.S. Senator, author of the Eighteenth Amendment
Robert Schwarz Strauss—former United States Ambassador to Russia; former United States Trade Representative; Former Chair of the Democratic National Committee
Kristen Silverberg—U.S. Ambassador to the European Union
Morris Sheppard—former United States Senator from Texas
Sarah Weddington—represented Jane Roe in the landmark Supreme Court case Roe v. Wade
Bill White—former Mayor of the City of Houston

There are a bunch of more people, but I just chose the most prominent ones.


UT has like twice the number of people graduating every year (although I don't know if historically that has always been true). Plus I've never heard of almost any of these people. Plus who cares?




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