HELP! Vandy v. Wake v. W&M v. GW v. UCLA v. San Diego v. L&C

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LaurenAyn
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HELP! Vandy v. Wake v. W&M v. GW v. UCLA v. San Diego v. L&C

Postby LaurenAyn » Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:36 am

OK, so I applied to a lot of law schools expecting to be rejected from some and to receive a different amount of aid from each, but so far I've received only acceptances, which is wonderful but doesn't help my decision much (My stats were LSAT: 166 and GPA: 3.83). I'm wondering what you all think of these offers for someone thinking of public interest/human rights/advocacy/constitutional law-type stuff:

GW (sticker)
U. San Diego ($40K/yr)
Northeastern ($30K/yr)
Wake Forest ($38K/yr)
William & Mary ($25K/yr)
Lewis & Clark ($25K/yr)
University of Denver ($36K/yr)
Vanderbilt (sticker)
U. Washington (sticker)
Hastings (sticker)
UCLA (sticker)

I also got into Santa Clara with $20.5K/yr and a potential scholarship offer at UMD, but am not seriously considering either of those (cost of living in Santa Clara is too high and the part of Baltimore where UMD's law campus is pretty bad). Still waiting on Emory, Berkeley, UC Davis, UC Irvine, Duke, UVA, and CU-Boulder.

I will be taking on all the expenses myself and my parents don't have the financial means to help me out with anything right now, so I really need to take cost into consideration. Ideally I want to live in a more progressive area, or at least the feel of the school should be left-leaning or neutral. I am from NJ originally (family near NYC) and now live in MD, but would love to live in California someday. I want a law school with a solid national reputation so hopefully you guys can help me figure out which of these might be a good fit to maximize quality without breaking the bank :)

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jkpolk
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Re: HELP! Vandy v. Wake v. W&M v. GW v. UCLA v. San Diego v. L&C

Postby jkpolk » Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:54 am

retake?

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LaurenAyn
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Re: HELP! Vandy v. Wake v. W&M v. GW v. UCLA v. San Diego v. L&C

Postby LaurenAyn » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:13 am

Meh, I retook the LSAT once and did slightly worse (which i explained in my addendum), so i'm satisfied with my score and don't want to take it again.

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BullShitWithBravado
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Re: HELP! Vandy v. Wake v. W&M v. GW v. UCLA v. San Diego v. L&C

Postby BullShitWithBravado » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:31 am

Where do you want to work?

EDIT: Nevermind.. Tough call between Vandy and UCLA.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:48 am

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Last edited by Myself on Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Crowing
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Re: HELP! Vandy v. Wake v. W&M v. GW v. UCLA v. San Diego v. L&C

Postby Crowing » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:32 pm

Vandy hasn't released scholarship info yet. I would wait and see if you get anything.

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bizzybone1313
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Re: HELP! Vandy v. Wake v. W&M v. GW v. UCLA v. San Diego v. L&C

Postby bizzybone1313 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:46 pm

I would tell UCLA to cough up about $15/$10K a year for you to attend their school. If I was in your position, I would negotiate hardcore with them. They need your 3.8+ GPA for their medians. Law schools are going to start getting desperate come the late spring or summer.

timbs4339
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Re: HELP! Vandy v. Wake v. W&M v. GW v. UCLA v. San Diego v. L&C

Postby timbs4339 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:01 pm

That's a tough situation, the schools that have "national reach" are charging you way too much to justify attending. The schools that have given you substantial scholarship amounts are regional with abysmal job prospects. I join the chorus in recommending you do some hefty negotiating and come back when you have exhausted all possible options for negotiating. Last year GW seemed willing to offer heavy scholly packages late in the cycle even to people admitted off the waitlist.

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dingbat
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Re: HELP! Vandy v. Wake v. W&M v. GW v. UCLA v. San Diego v. L&C

Postby dingbat » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:31 am

timbs4339 wrote:the schools that have "national reach" ...

none of those schools have national reach.
Of those listed, I'd try to play Vandy and UCLA off of each other. Based on listed preferences, then choose UCLA

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somewhatwayward
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Re: HELP! Vandy v. Wake v. W&M v. GW v. UCLA v. San Diego v. L&C

Postby somewhatwayward » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:44 am

I'm wondering what you all think of these offers for someone thinking of public interest/human rights/advocacy/constitutional law-type stuff


For this type of stuff, which is basically prestigious PI work, these options are pretty terrible. There are a few reasons. First, prestigious PI work is very prestige-oriented, so HYS grads gobble up most of the jobs before the rest of the T14 get a chance, let alone Vandy or UCLA (the other schools on your list give you 0 shot at this type of work). Second, if you are taking out 100K+ in loans, and you plan to do PI, you need to look at your school's public interest repayment program. I believe most of these schools' repayment plans are not great and are probably tied to IBR, so if the government decides to mess with IBR, you are up shit's creek without a paddle.

If you can get UCLA or Vandy to give you a significant discount, they'd probably be okay. You won't have much of a shot at constitutional law work, but at least you won't be drowning in debt either. Probably the best way to get more money from them is to sign up for the June LSAT, raise your score a few points, and then ask for more money. This is more likely to result in money than negotiating although you should negotiate as well. Good luck!

rad lulz
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Re: HELP! Vandy v. Wake v. W&M v. GW v. UCLA v. San Diego v. L&C

Postby rad lulz » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:47 am

timbs4339 wrote:That's a tough situation, the schools that have "national reach" are charging you way too much to justify attending. The schools that have given you substantial scholarship amounts are regional with abysmal job prospects. I join the chorus in recommending you do some hefty negotiating and come back when you have exhausted all possible options for negotiating. Last year GW seemed willing to offer heavy scholly packages late in the cycle even to people admitted off the waitlist.

Basically this. I wouldn't go to a UCLA/USC/Vandy/Tex school unless CoA was around $100k.

Also I recommend you take a look at the jobs you want, because barely anyone does that kind of human rights type work. Also true public interest firms hire almost no one. Public interest work in reality often mean filing 42 USC 1983 claims for damages or working at the public defender. You cool with that?

timbs4339
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Re: HELP! Vandy v. Wake v. W&M v. GW v. UCLA v. San Diego v. L&C

Postby timbs4339 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:27 pm

rad lulz wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:That's a tough situation, the schools that have "national reach" are charging you way too much to justify attending. The schools that have given you substantial scholarship amounts are regional with abysmal job prospects. I join the chorus in recommending you do some hefty negotiating and come back when you have exhausted all possible options for negotiating. Last year GW seemed willing to offer heavy scholly packages late in the cycle even to people admitted off the waitlist.

Basically this. I wouldn't go to a UCLA/USC/Vandy/Tex school unless CoA was around $100k.

Also I recommend you take a look at the jobs you want, because barely anyone does that kind of human rights type work. Also true public interest firms hire almost no one. Public interest work in reality often mean filing 42 USC 1983 claims for damages or working at the public defender. You cool with that?


The students I know who got jobs at the private civil rights firms were all Law Review at Columbia. Those firms are insanely competitive.

rad lulz
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Re: HELP! Vandy v. Wake v. W&M v. GW v. UCLA v. San Diego v. L&C

Postby rad lulz » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:31 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:That's a tough situation, the schools that have "national reach" are charging you way too much to justify attending. The schools that have given you substantial scholarship amounts are regional with abysmal job prospects. I join the chorus in recommending you do some hefty negotiating and come back when you have exhausted all possible options for negotiating. Last year GW seemed willing to offer heavy scholly packages late in the cycle even to people admitted off the waitlist.

Basically this. I wouldn't go to a UCLA/USC/Vandy/Tex school unless CoA was around $100k.

Also I recommend you take a look at the jobs you want, because barely anyone does that kind of human rights type work. Also true public interest firms hire almost no one. Public interest work in reality often mean filing 42 USC 1983 claims for damages or working at the public defender. You cool with that?


The students I know who got jobs at the private civil rights firms were all Law Review at Columbia. Those firms are insanely competitive.

Not surprised. Read on Campos that in 2011 only 111 people nationwide got jobs at public interest firms.

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ndirish2010
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Re: HELP! Vandy v. Wake v. W&M v. GW v. UCLA v. San Diego v. L&C

Postby ndirish2010 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:37 pm

None of these are good options. You'd be crazy to go to Vandy or UCLA at sticker. Retake for a 168 and you'll be in MUCH better shape.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: HELP! Vandy v. Wake v. W&M v. GW v. UCLA v. San Diego v. L&C

Postby somewhatwayward » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:01 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:That's a tough situation, the schools that have "national reach" are charging you way too much to justify attending. The schools that have given you substantial scholarship amounts are regional with abysmal job prospects. I join the chorus in recommending you do some hefty negotiating and come back when you have exhausted all possible options for negotiating. Last year GW seemed willing to offer heavy scholly packages late in the cycle even to people admitted off the waitlist.

Basically this. I wouldn't go to a UCLA/USC/Vandy/Tex school unless CoA was around $100k.

Also I recommend you take a look at the jobs you want, because barely anyone does that kind of human rights type work. Also true public interest firms hire almost no one. Public interest work in reality often mean filing 42 USC 1983 claims for damages or working at the public defender. You cool with that?


The students I know who got jobs at the private civil rights firms were all Law Review at Columbia. Those firms are insanely competitive.


+1 I bet we know the same people.

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LaurenAyn
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Re: HELP! Vandy v. Wake v. W&M v. GW v. UCLA v. San Diego v. L&C

Postby LaurenAyn » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:05 pm

Thanks for the advice everyone :D I just heard back from Emory though, and they're offering me $30K/year. I think I've got a winner!

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somewhatwayward
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Re: HELP! Vandy v. Wake v. W&M v. GW v. UCLA v. San Diego v. L&C

Postby somewhatwayward » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:13 pm

If you don't have savings, so you have to borrow for COL, Emory is going to cost you 170K even with the 30K/year scholarship (see LST for cost figures). Emory is not worth 170K and is in poor position to get you the unicorn constitutional law job. At the very least, if you insist on not retaking, play these schools' scholarship offers off of each other until you get full rides. You can play Vandy and GW off each other, and you can lay them both off Emory. Also, you should cosnider studying like a fiend and retaking in June. If you grab a couple more points, you will have more bargaining power with these schools. They will be desperate for your 168-170 coupled with a good GPA. Don't settle!

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: HELP! Vandy v. Wake v. W&M v. GW v. UCLA v. San Diego v. L&C

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:39 pm

somewhatwayward wrote:If you don't have savings, so you have to borrow for COL, Emory is going to cost you 170K even with the 30K/year scholarship (see LST for cost figures). Emory is not worth 170K and is in poor position to get you the unicorn constitutional law job. At the very least, if you insist on not retaking, play these schools' scholarship offers off of each other until you get full rides. You can play Vandy and GW off each other, and you can lay them both off Emory. Also, you should cosnider studying like a fiend and retaking in June. If you grab a couple more points, you will have more bargaining power with these schools. They will be desperate for your 168-170 coupled with a good GPA. Don't settle!

You can't just subtract 90K from the LST number. Fully in agreement with everything else.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: HELP! Vandy v. Wake v. W&M v. GW v. UCLA v. San Diego v. L&C

Postby somewhatwayward » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:33 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:
somewhatwayward wrote:If you don't have savings, so you have to borrow for COL, Emory is going to cost you 170K even with the 30K/year scholarship (see LST for cost figures). Emory is not worth 170K and is in poor position to get you the unicorn constitutional law job. At the very least, if you insist on not retaking, play these schools' scholarship offers off of each other until you get full rides. You can play Vandy and GW off each other, and you can lay them both off Emory. Also, you should cosnider studying like a fiend and retaking in June. If you grab a couple more points, you will have more bargaining power with these schools. They will be desperate for your 168-170 coupled with a good GPA. Don't settle!

You can't just subtract 90K from the LST number. Fully in agreement with everything else.


Good point. That was really stupid bc the LST figure includes the interest that a student paying sticker would accrue on the 90K she isn't taking out. Assuming 7% interest, then I suppose an approximation would be 260K - 30K(1.07)^3 - 30K(1.07)^2 - 30K(1.07), which equals ~160K. Yeah the calculation is a little off bc loans are doled out semesterly and the interest rate is 6.8% on the first 10.25K and then 7.9% thereafter so my calculation is overly simplistic but it gives you a rough idea of the cost and ,whether it is 150K, 160K, or 170K, it is way too much for Emory.

It is a screwed up thing that a school can offer you what appears to be a frickin 90K gift and it is still prohibitively expensive to attend. Schools lure people in by making themselves seem exclusive so applicants are waiting on the edges of their seats to see if they got into like Touro or St John's. The feigned exclusivity makes you want it all the more. Then once they have made you desperate to be admitted, they admit you and offer what sounds like a huge present, a scholarship worth tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, which flatters people and makes them feel special. The brilliant thing is the gargantuan "scholarships" that don't even reduce cost enough to make attending the school rational would not be necessary if schools didn't charge way way way too much in tuition. If schools lowered tuition, they wouldn't get to play these psychological tricks on prospective students to persuade them to attend.

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gnomgnomuch
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Re: HELP! Vandy v. Wake v. W&M v. GW v. UCLA v. San Diego v. L&C

Postby gnomgnomuch » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:53 am

Retaking and getting a 170, would def open up a lot of options, but if you dont want too retake you still might have had a shot at gulc and cornell. Regardless youre asking for a school with a national reputation and you ideally want to live in cali. For that its between vandy and UCLA, if you are positive about cali, or even if you are thinking about it seriously, then UCLA is the way to go. But really, a retake would prob be your best bet, the schools you already got into, would give you ALOT more money, and you'd have a shot at berk/stanford ( if you are set on cali ), and HY while CCN (plus lower t-14's with pretty big aid) would be pretty safe bets. Thats all up to you, and youre in at some great schools where employment prospects are good, so all the best =)

Lido997
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Re: HELP! Vandy v. Wake v. W&M v. GW v. UCLA v. San Diego v. L&C

Postby Lido997 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:16 pm

Crowing wrote:Vandy hasn't released scholarship info yet. I would wait and see if you get anything.


Any clue when they are going to release this?

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Crowing
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Re: HELP! Vandy v. Wake v. W&M v. GW v. UCLA v. San Diego v. L&C

Postby Crowing » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:16 pm

Lido997 wrote:
Crowing wrote:Vandy hasn't released scholarship info yet. I would wait and see if you get anything.


Any clue when they are going to release this?


Last week of Feb




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