Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby rickgrimes69 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:20 am

kappycaft1 wrote:At Sticker:
Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, Chicago, NYU, Pennsylvania

With $50,000+ in Scholarship:
Berkeley

With $100,000+ in Scholarship:
UVA

With $150,000+ in Scholarship:
Michigan, Duke, Northwestern

With Full-Ride Scholarship:
Georgetown, Cornell

With Full-Ride Scholarship + Decent Living Stipend:
UCLA, Texas, Vandy, USC

With Full-Ride Scholarship + $3,000,000 Stipend:
Cooley

*I have some money in savings which might slightly skew where I am willing to go for what amounts.


I see this line of reasoning a lot on TLS, and I'm curious as to why UVA (47.7% c/o 2011 in Firms 100+ / Fed Clerkships) is worth $50k more to you than Duke (56.1%) or NU (61.3%) despite the fact that both of the latter out perform the former. Same question for Chicago (53.3%), which is apparently worth sticker price.

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skers
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby skers » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:41 am

Again, it's a personal list duder.

20141023
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby 20141023 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:14 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Justin Genious
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby Justin Genious » Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:38 pm

Sticker + COL: HYS CCN PD
50k scholly + COL: BMV CN
Would not attend even with full ride: G on down

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Crowing
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby Crowing » Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:43 pm

Poor Duke - probably the least popular of the T14. I ain't afraid of kappycaft1's relatives though so I'd take Duke over UVA.

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HBBJohnStamos
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby HBBJohnStamos » Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:44 pm

rickgrimes69 wrote:
kappycaft1 wrote:At Sticker:
Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, Chicago, NYU, Pennsylvania

With $50,000+ in Scholarship:
Berkeley

With $100,000+ in Scholarship:
UVA

With $150,000+ in Scholarship:
Michigan, Duke, Northwestern

With Full-Ride Scholarship:
Georgetown, Cornell

With Full-Ride Scholarship + Decent Living Stipend:
UCLA, Texas, Vandy, USC

With Full-Ride Scholarship + $3,000,000 Stipend:
Cooley

*I have some money in savings which might slightly skew where I am willing to go for what amounts.


I see this line of reasoning a lot on TLS, and I'm curious as to why UVA (47.7% c/o 2011 in Firms 100+ / Fed Clerkships) is worth $50k more to you than Duke (56.1%) or NU (61.3%) despite the fact that both of the latter out perform the former. Same question for Chicago (53.3%), which is apparently worth sticker price.


I would imagine that the fact that he got into Chicago with a 166 explains that entire ranking.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby rickgrimes69 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:30 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:I see this line of reasoning a lot on TLS, and I'm curious as to why UVA (47.7% c/o 2011 in Firms 100+ / Fed Clerkships) is worth $50k more to you than Duke (56.1%) or NU (61.3%) despite the fact that both of the latter out perform the former. Same question for Chicago (53.3%), which is apparently worth sticker price.

Man... it is hard to answer a question on this site, even if it is about one's personal preferences, without taking flak from someone. :P

I'm sorry if you're butthurt that I don't value your school (Duke) as much as UVA, but I have nosy relatives that live very close to Duke that I really want to avoid having to be around if I can. Accordingly, it would require about $50,000 more than UVA just to convince me to live in that area. (Remember, the question was about one's personal preferences). Also, Duke places 17% of its students in NY, 14% in NC, and 13% in DC. Unfortunately, the area that they place the second highest ratio of graduates into is a market that I absolutely don't want to be in.


My butt feels fine - I'm not the one getting defensive. Personal reasons for avoiding a school are legitimate and you can just say so.

Edit: My list would include any school where I could keep total COA under $150k. Thankfully, I was able to accomplish that at Duke. I don't think I would pay more than that ITE anywhere outside of HYS.

20141023
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby 20141023 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:56 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NYstate
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby NYstate » Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:19 pm

One thing I hate about threads like this: people talk about getting biglaw as if they understand what biglaw is like and what their lives will be like. There seems to be a general assumption that going to biglaw is fantastic. But you are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars and working your ass off to get that job.

So I just want to plead with people to find out as much as they can before they handcuff themselves to needing biglaw.

FwIW: I am one if the few happy associates at my firm. But I have a unique situation because I got seriously ill and they helped me a great deal. The partners are all decent human beings but they also have a business to run and demanding clients to keep happy. I love the work (which few people can believe, but i do) and the people, but sometimes I think there are maybe 3 of us here ( out of maybe 40 people in my department) who are happy. Many other associates are miserable and planning their way out as soon as they can. Just have your eyes open about what you are trying to achieve. Understand what the brass ring means before you commit yourself to grabbing it.


( and I'm going to work on my TLS addiction, so I hope to not be around until my next few days off. ~ sunynp)

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Yukos
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby Yukos » Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:55 pm

My (PERSONAL) list because I feel like my sentiments (as a lifelong Californian trapped on the East Coast until law school starts) might be close to the OP's.

Sticker: HYS
Attend with $30k scholly or more: CCNB
$70k or more: P
$100k or more: UVA, UM, Duke, NU
Full-ride or don't go: Cornell
They better give me a stipend: GULC

For me, working biglaw in NYC would almost be worse than unemployment, which makes me a little more risk-averse and a little less inclined to like schools that primarily feed into NYC (read: Penn). I think for those people who are willing/eager to work in NYC, you can be a lot more aggressive (sticker at Penn, take a full-ride at Duke over HYS, etc.) since the New York class sizes are just so big. If you're high-prestige PI or bust then you should be a lot more conservative (HYS > full-ride > don't go).

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Rahviveh
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby Rahviveh » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:05 pm

NYstate wrote:One thing I hate about threads like this: people talk about getting biglaw as if they understand what biglaw is like and what their lives will be like. There seems to be a general assumption that going to biglaw is fantastic. But you are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars and working your ass off to get that job.

So I just want to plead with people to find out as much as they can before they handcuff themselves to needing biglaw.

FwIW: I am one if the few happy associates at my firm. But I have a unique situation because I got seriously ill and they helped me a great deal. The partners are all decent human beings but they also have a business to run and demanding clients to keep happy. I love the work (which few people can believe, but i do) and the people, but sometimes I think there are maybe 3 of us here ( out of maybe 40 people in my department) who are happy. Many other associates are miserable and planning their way out as soon as they can. Just have your eyes open about what you are trying to achieve. Understand what the brass ring means before you commit yourself to grabbing it.


( and I'm going to work on my TLS addiction, so I hope to not be around until my next few days off. ~ sunynp)

I can't speak for everyone but from 0L perspective big law is the devil we know. I doubt threres many TLS regulars who think it will be fantastic - but it pays enough to service the debt load and opens up exit options you can't really get anywhere else. With smaller firms you don't really know what you're getting in terms of a career path. I have done the research and worked at one of these firms as a paralegal and feel like my personality will mesh well with the job, but nobody can know for sure until they are actually in those shoes. I've also worked at smaller shops and found miserable people.

I hope you continue to post often as I always find your thoughts informative

20141023
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby 20141023 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:15 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BigZuck
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby BigZuck » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:29 pm

I think it's pretty neat that the amount of debt you guys are willing to go into for certain schools align exactly with the options you have and the choices you have made.

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Crowing
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby Crowing » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:31 pm

BigZuck wrote:I think it's pretty neat that the amount of debt you guys are willing to go into for certain schools align exactly with the options you have and the choices you have made.


This is a pretty awesomely microcosmic 1k for you lol.

I wouldn't take any debt anywhere. The end.

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Rahviveh
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby Rahviveh » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:48 pm

BigZuck wrote:I think it's pretty neat that the amount of debt you guys are willing to go into for certain schools align exactly with the options you have and the choices you have made.

Mine dont really align but isn't that the point? Why would you make a choice going against your beliefs?

BigZuck
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby BigZuck » Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:12 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
BigZuck wrote:I think it's pretty neat that the amount of debt you guys are willing to go into for certain schools align exactly with the options you have and the choices you have made.

Mine dont really align but isn't that the point? Why would you make a choice going against your beliefs?


I guess I just have a hard time believing some people when they say something like "I wouldn't go to Duke without a full ride!" and then they happen to have a 3.9 and a 175. I bet if they took the LSAT a few times and maxed out at a 168 or something and their best option was Duke with 10K a year that they would not pass that up. I don't think most people are that rational to objectively say "I will pay X and no more" and then stick to that.

Rather I think most people do the thinking in reverse. The best school they get into is at sticker and they decide to go there and magically that school is worth sticker. If I'm honest with myself I can tell that's what I did. I can go to USC/UT for 100k and conveniently that is how much I am willing to spend.

BigZuck
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby BigZuck » Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:14 pm

Crowing wrote:
BigZuck wrote:I think it's pretty neat that the amount of debt you guys are willing to go into for certain schools align exactly with the options you have and the choices you have made.


This is a pretty awesomely microcosmic 1k for you lol.

I wouldn't take any debt anywhere. The end.


I have 1000 posts? Damn. Don't tell my boss, that's a lot of productivity down the drain.

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby twinkletoes16 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:25 pm

sorry for the bump, but wanted to update to reflect my scholly from NYU.

keg411
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby keg411 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:36 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:sorry for the bump, but wanted to update to reflect my scholly from NYU.


Hey twink! I think you need to wait for all of your scholarship offers to come in + go to ASW's before you can make a decision. I can see where you're anxiety is coming from, but right now there's basically nothing you can do until you hear from everywhere, and after you visit, it will be easier for you to narrow down your choices.

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby twinkletoes16 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:42 pm

keg411 wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:sorry for the bump, but wanted to update to reflect my scholly from NYU.


Hey twink! I think you need to wait for all of your scholarship offers to come in + go to ASW's before you can make a decision. I can see where you're anxiety is coming from, but right now there's basically nothing you can do until you hear from everywhere, and after you visit, it will be easier for you to narrow down your choices.



this is true. thanks! i'm going to wait and will come back here when the time is right :wink:




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