Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

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helix23
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby helix23 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:57 pm

+1 to all this. We're in pretty similar situations so I'll be watching this thread. Once I get more info I'll be starting my own. Hard to know what to do without all the decisions and scholarships.

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Crowing
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby Crowing » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:12 pm

zman wrote:new big law employment figures will come in about 3-4 weeks. From a magazine I use to work for I'm hearing berkeley had a monster year.


interesting - heard any other reports?

zman
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby zman » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:33 pm

Crowing wrote:
zman wrote:new big law employment figures will come in about 3-4 weeks. From a magazine I use to work for I'm hearing berkeley had a monster year.


interesting - heard any other reports?


they come out at the of the month, so you will have big law placement before you have to make the decision.

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Rahviveh
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby Rahviveh » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:41 pm

helix23 wrote:+1 to all this. We're in pretty similar situations so I'll be watching this thread. Once I get more info I'll be starting my own. Hard to know what to do without all the decisions and scholarships.


Cant wait for the "CCB > N?" threads :lol:

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Redamon1
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby Redamon1 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:21 am

megagnarley wrote:
Job > CA --- NYU
CA > Job --- Berkeley



This is silly. If you're going to regurgitate TLS group think, at least do it right.

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megagnarley
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby megagnarley » Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:41 am

Redamon1 wrote:
megagnarley wrote:
Job > CA --- NYU
CA > Job --- Berkeley



This is silly. If you're going to regurgitate TLS group think, at least do it right.


Um, what?

2011:
NYU: 43% biglaw (-14%), 11% clerkship (+1%) = 54%
Berkeley: 42% biglaw (-10%), 12% clerkship (+4%) = 54%

2010:
NYU: 66.80%
Berkeley: 58.45%


Though it's not possible to give the self-selecting PI contingent at NYU an exact % it is certainly a non-negligible amount, meaning the gap between ability to get biglaw overall at the two schools is not as small as it would seem, and even that group notwithstanding, NYU still has an edge.

If you're going to insult someone, get your facts straight first.

BigZuck
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby BigZuck » Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:52 am

Crowing wrote:
zman wrote:new big law employment figures will come in about 3-4 weeks. From a magazine I use to work for I'm hearing berkeley had a monster year.


interesting - heard any other reports?


I heard GTown had 50+% in big law this year.

No, lolno, or hell no?

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Redamon1
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby Redamon1 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:08 pm

megagnarley wrote:
Redamon1 wrote:
megagnarley wrote:
Job > CA --- NYU
CA > Job --- Berkeley



This is silly. If you're going to regurgitate TLS group think, at least do it right.


Um, what?

2011:
NYU: 43% biglaw (-14%), 11% clerkship (+1%) = 54%
Berkeley: 42% biglaw (-10%), 12% clerkship (+4%) = 54%

2010:
NYU: 66.80%
Berkeley: 58.45%


Though it's not possible to give the self-selecting PI contingent at NYU an exact % it is certainly a non-negligible amount, meaning the gap between ability to get biglaw overall at the two schools is not as small as it would seem, and even that group notwithstanding, NYU still has an edge.

If you're going to insult someone, get your facts straight first.


My main issue with your post is that, while I think you meant to draw a comparison between ability to get big law jobs, you made it sound like anyone concerned with employment overall should look at Berkeley suspiciously, unless they are happy to be unemployed in CA. But even then, your words make the gap sound much larger than the numbers that you just presented suggest. Just like NYU, B has a significant PI contingent whose self selection is hard to factor in. The school draws lots of people that are interested in PI and places its grads well. In that sense, the schools have comparable profiles and a lot of people here have chosen B over NYU. Not to mention that if OP wants to do biglaw AND stay in CA, B likely > NYU. So the difference in absolute biglaw numbers is narrow to begin with, and if you factor in PI and geographical considerations, the difference is not self evident. Understand that I'm not saying NYU is a not a good choice, but any difference should not be overblown.

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megagnarley
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby megagnarley » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:26 pm

Redamon1 wrote:
megagnarley wrote:
Redamon1 wrote:
megagnarley wrote:
Job > CA --- NYU
CA > Job --- Berkeley



This is silly. If you're going to regurgitate TLS group think, at least do it right.


Um, what?

2011:
NYU: 43% biglaw (-14%), 11% clerkship (+1%) = 54%
Berkeley: 42% biglaw (-10%), 12% clerkship (+4%) = 54%

2010:
NYU: 66.80%
Berkeley: 58.45%


Though it's not possible to give the self-selecting PI contingent at NYU an exact % it is certainly a non-negligible amount, meaning the gap between ability to get biglaw overall at the two schools is not as small as it would seem, and even that group notwithstanding, NYU still has an edge.

If you're going to insult someone, get your facts straight first.


My main issue with your post is that, while I think you meant to draw a comparison between ability to get big law jobs, you made it sound like anyone concerned with employment overall should look at Berkeley suspiciously, unless they are happy to be unemployed in CA. But even then, your words make the gap sound much larger than the numbers that you just presented suggest. Just like NYU, B has a significant PI contingent whose self selection is hard to factor in. The school draws lots of people that are interested in PI and places its grads well. In that sense, the schools have comparable profiles and a lot of people here have chosen B over NYU. Not to mention that if OP wants to do biglaw AND stay in CA, B likely > NYU. So the difference in absolute biglaw numbers is narrow to begin with, and if you factor in PI and geographical considerations, the difference is not self evident. Understand that I'm not saying NYU is a not a good choice, but any difference should not be overblown.


If your main issue with my response was that it "made it sound like anyone concerned with employment overall should look at Berkeley suspiciously," then your issue is in your own tangential deduction because I never implied that.

The layout of my original response stated that if you want the best shot at biglaw overall NYU has the edge (as it has historically) and if you care about California more than overall biglaw prospects Berkeley has the edge (as it has historically).

That is not silly. That is accurate.

edit: spellcheck

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helix23
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby helix23 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:55 pm

martingary1803 wrote:


GOLD MINE OF INFORMATION

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Tom Joad
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby Tom Joad » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:31 pm

That is the best spam I have ever seen.

KingFish
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby KingFish » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:52 pm

martingary1803 wrote:


Dude, Penn>B

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Crowing
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby Crowing » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:54 pm

you should probably not be quoting spam

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby twinkletoes16 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:52 pm

I guess what I'm asking also is: what is the most you would go into debt for a school/tier? This is different for everyone but I'm interested to see people's comfort levels based on employment stats, reputation, etc.
I.e.

HYS
CCN
BVMP
DGNC
USC/UCLA/Texas/vandy

BigZuck
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby BigZuck » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:45 pm

HYS- sticker
CCN- 150K
BVMPDGNC-130K
USC/UCLA/Texas/vandy-100K

20141023
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby 20141023 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:50 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby twinkletoes16 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:59 pm

BigZuck wrote:HYS- sticker
CCN- 150K
BVMPDGNC-130K
USC/UCLA/Texas/vandy-100K



Is this including CoL zuck? JW. I'm assuming $20k for CoL for people? Or too high?

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suralin
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby suralin » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:10 am

kappycaft1 wrote:At Sticker:
Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, Chicago, NYU, Pennsylvania

With $50,000+ in Scholarship:
Berkeley

With $100,000+ in Scholarship:
UVA

With $150,000+ in Scholarship:
Michigan, Duke, Northwestern

With Full-Ride Scholarship:
Georgetown, Cornell

With Full-Ride Scholarship + Decent Living Stipend:
UCLA, Texas, Vandy, USC

With Full-Ride Scholarship + $3,000,000 Stipend:
Cooley

*I have some money in savings which might slightly skew where I am willing to go for what amounts.


Hmm, interesting. For you, the difference between UVA and Cornell is worth $65k+? I can understand GULC, but Cornell's BigLaw numbers seem pretty promising. Also, the difference between UVA and Michigan is worth $50k for you?

FWIW, I'm genuinely interested, not trying to attack you or anything like that.

zman
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby zman » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:18 am

Suralin wrote:
kappycaft1 wrote:At Sticker:
Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, Chicago, NYU, Pennsylvania

With $50,000+ in Scholarship:
Berkeley

With $100,000+ in Scholarship:
UVA

With $150,000+ in Scholarship:
Michigan, Duke, Northwestern

With Full-Ride Scholarship:
Georgetown, Cornell

With Full-Ride Scholarship + Decent Living Stipend:
UCLA, Texas, Vandy, USC

With Full-Ride Scholarship + $3,000,000 Stipend:
Cooley

*I have some money in savings which might slightly skew where I am willing to go for what amounts.


Hmm, interesting. For you, the difference between UVA and Cornell is worth $65k+? I can understand GULC, but Cornell's BigLaw numbers seem pretty promising. Also, the difference between UVA and Michigan is worth $50k for you?

FWIW, I'm genuinely interested, not trying to attack you or anything like that.


decent list.. Chicago, Columbia, Penn and NYU do NOT have near perfect employment(big law, high end government, high end clerkship) like Stanford, Harvard and Yale so therefore they don't belong in the same category.

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Crowing
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby Crowing » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:58 am

zman wrote:
Suralin wrote:
kappycaft1 wrote:At Sticker:
Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, Chicago, NYU, Pennsylvania

With $50,000+ in Scholarship:
Berkeley

With $100,000+ in Scholarship:
UVA

With $150,000+ in Scholarship:
Michigan, Duke, Northwestern

With Full-Ride Scholarship:
Georgetown, Cornell

With Full-Ride Scholarship + Decent Living Stipend:
UCLA, Texas, Vandy, USC

With Full-Ride Scholarship + $3,000,000 Stipend:
Cooley

*I have some money in savings which might slightly skew where I am willing to go for what amounts.


Hmm, interesting. For you, the difference between UVA and Cornell is worth $65k+? I can understand GULC, but Cornell's BigLaw numbers seem pretty promising. Also, the difference between UVA and Michigan is worth $50k for you?

FWIW, I'm genuinely interested, not trying to attack you or anything like that.


decent list.. Chicago, Columbia, Penn and NYU do NOT have near perfect employment(big law, high end government, high end clerkship) like Stanford, Harvard and Yale so therefore they don't belong in the same category.


HYS don't have anywhere near perfect employment stats either. The only difference is that people are more willing to buy the hypothesis that HYS students self-select out of "good legal jobs" than they are willing to accept a similar statement about CCN.

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suralin
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby suralin » Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:15 am

twinkletoes16 wrote:I guess what I'm asking also is: what is the most you would go into debt for a school/tier? This is different for everyone but I'm interested to see people's comfort levels based on employment stats, reputation, etc.
I.e.

HYS
CCN
BVMP
DGNC
USC/UCLA/Texas/vandy


Including COL, here are the total debt amounts I'd be willing to take on:

HYSCCNP - sticker (Penn here because of proximity to a decently-sized legal market and pretty good BigLaw placement numbers)
BVMDCN - 150K
G - 100K (way too crowded market and way too large class sizes)

Nothing outside of T14 since if I didn't get any of the above, I'd just retake until both my LSAT and WE were maxed out, or not go to law school at all.

Also, those debt amounts are pretty high since family is willing to help with loans, I'm IP-eligible, and I have back-up plans if I don't get a 2L SA.

BigZuck
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby BigZuck » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:52 am

twinkletoes16 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:HYS- sticker
CCN- 150K
BVMPDGNC-130K
USC/UCLA/Texas/vandy-100K



Is this including CoL zuck? JW. I'm assuming $20k for CoL for people? Or too high?


Yes I am including cost of living. So for USC, I would only be willing to pay about 10K in tuition a year.

If you want to know the cost of living for a school then just find a school's cost of attendance and subtract tuition and fees and you will be left with cost of living. 20k a year is basically the budget they allow for high COL areas like NY, DC, and CA and lower COL areas like Austin, Ann Arbor, etc. would probably be closer to 15k a year.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:30 am

zman wrote:decent list.. Chicago, Columbia, Penn and NYU do NOT have near perfect employment(big law, high end government, high end clerkship) like Stanford, Harvard and Yale so therefore they don't belong in the same category.

He didn't say they belong in the same category, only that he'd pay sticker at all 7. Maybe he'd go 350K in debt for HYS.

20141023
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby 20141023 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:22 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Debt-Averse Californian: Help Me

Postby twinkletoes16 » Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:07 pm

Edited original post to pose another question that I thought of.


I went OOS to an UG on the other side of the country. Does this impact my ties at all? I feel like firms might start looking at me skeptically since I graduated high school in NorCal and then left, then came back, then left again. Should I be looking pretty much at Berk/USC/UCLA right now to confirm ties?




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