Michigan Darrow vs. UVA Dean's Scholarship

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elterrible78
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Michigan Darrow vs. UVA Dean's Scholarship

Postby elterrible78 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:24 pm

At this point in my cycle, the two best options I think I have are a full tuition Darrow scholarship at U of Michigan and a full tuition Dean's Scholarship at UVA. I currently live in Virginia, but am by no means a long-term Virginia resident, and really have no specific desire to stay in Virginia. Because I'm a planner, I've been thinking a lot lately about these two options, and assuming the worst as far as the rest of the cycle is concerned (I know this sounds pretty ridiculous, considering that the worst case scenario is UVA vs. Michigan for free, trust me).

I'm 34 years old and married (although my wife won't go with me wherever I go, and likely will not stay in Virginia, either). I would really love to clerk after school, although I don't know if I'm getting too old to be competitive for that. We are really hoping to relocate to Miami, so Miami biglaw is the medium-term goal. While I don't have ties there, her entire family are Miami transplants from Brazil, and I am closer to my in-laws than I am my own family. Long term, I really wouldn't mind teaching somewhere.

I realize neither of these schools are ideal given my goals, but I haven't been accepted to HYS, and I would almost certainly take either UVA or Michigan over CCN at sticker. I'm just interested in anybody's thoughts on which one of these schools would best serve my goals.

Thanks for any input...I really am interested in what people have to say.

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Ramius
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Re: Michigan Darrow vs. UVA Dean's Scholarship

Postby Ramius » Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:46 pm

elterrible78 wrote:At this point in my cycle, the two best options I think I have are a full tuition Darrow scholarship at U of Michigan and a full tuition Dean's Scholarship at UVA. I currently live in Virginia, but am by no means a long-term Virginia resident, and really have no specific desire to stay in Virginia. Because I'm a planner, I've been thinking a lot lately about these two options, and assuming the worst as far as the rest of the cycle is concerned (I know this sounds pretty ridiculous, considering that the worst case scenario is UVA vs. Michigan for free, trust me).

I'm 34 years old and married (although my wife won't go with me wherever I go, and likely will not stay in Virginia, either). I would really love to clerk after school, although I don't know if I'm getting too old to be competitive for that. We are really hoping to relocate to Miami, so Miami biglaw is the medium-term goal. While I don't have ties there, her entire family are Miami transplants from Brazil, and I am closer to my in-laws than I am my own family. Long term, I really wouldn't mind teaching somewhere.

I realize neither of these schools are ideal given my goals, but I haven't been accepted to HYS, and I would almost certainly take either UVA or Michigan over CCN at sticker. I'm just interested in anybody's thoughts on which one of these schools would best serve my goals.

Thanks for any input...I really am interested in what people have to say.


You're in an awesome position, although Miami might be a tough nut to crack in either case. Based on the available data, either will likely give you a better than 0% chance of landing gainful employment in Miami. Two questions stand out to me:

1) Where would your wife prefer living for three years, Charlottesville or Ann Arbor?

2) Is the extra cost of moving to Ann Arbor worth it compared to the limited costs of moving to Charlottesville?

My two cents, to be sure, but I think either way you're going to have to hustle to reach Miami in any high-paying position.

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elterrible78
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Re: Michigan Darrow vs. UVA Dean's Scholarship

Postby elterrible78 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:52 pm

matthewsean85 wrote:
You're in an awesome position, although Miami might be a tough nut to crack in either case. Based on the available data, either will likely give you a better than 0% chance of landing gainful employment in Miami. Two questions stand out to me:

1) Where would your wife prefer living for three years, Charlottesville or Ann Arbor?

2) Is the extra cost of moving to Ann Arbor worth it compared to the limited costs of moving to Charlottesville?

My two cents, to be sure, but I think either way you're going to have to hustle to reach Miami in any high-paying position.


Hey, thanks. My wife is probably not going to live with me during law school. I know, it sounds weird. At least for the first year, I'll be by myself, and everything else depends on, well...everything else. She is going to get down to Miami and try to get a job ASAP. In terms of moving, I am a live-light, travel-light person, so I don't think there's going to be a whole lot of expense involved.

Getting straight to Miami will be tough, I realize (although I saw the other day that Michigan is actually in the top five, in terms of placement in Miami). If I were really dead set on Miami, I'd probably just go to Miami, but I'm not sure the boost in the chances of landing a job in Miami would be worth more than the portability of either UVA or Michigan. I accept that my road to Miami might have a couple stopoffs along the way.

Thanks very much for your response, I definitely appreciate it.

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Ramius
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Re: Michigan Darrow vs. UVA Dean's Scholarship

Postby Ramius » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:04 pm

elterrible78 wrote:
matthewsean85 wrote:
You're in an awesome position, although Miami might be a tough nut to crack in either case. Based on the available data, either will likely give you a better than 0% chance of landing gainful employment in Miami. Two questions stand out to me:

1) Where would your wife prefer living for three years, Charlottesville or Ann Arbor?

2) Is the extra cost of moving to Ann Arbor worth it compared to the limited costs of moving to Charlottesville?

My two cents, to be sure, but I think either way you're going to have to hustle to reach Miami in any high-paying position.


Hey, thanks. My wife is probably not going to live with me during law school. I know, it sounds weird. At least for the first year, I'll be by myself, and everything else depends on, well...everything else. She is going to get down to Miami and try to get a job ASAP. In terms of moving, I am a live-light, travel-light person, so I don't think there's going to be a whole lot of expense involved.

Getting straight to Miami will be tough, I realize (although I saw the other day that Michigan is actually in the top five, in terms of placement in Miami). If I were really dead set on Miami, I'd probably just go to Miami, but I'm not sure the boost in the chances of landing a job in Miami would be worth more than the portability of either UVA or Michigan. I accept that my road to Miami might have a couple stopoffs along the way.

Thanks very much for your response, I definitely appreciate it.


Probably a good thing, given the hell of 1L as people have described it. But I know where you're coming from. I have lived apart from my wife for the last 5 years due to military orders and professional obligations. If this is the case though, you really should pick a place YOU want to be living. I sincerely doubt Michigan will place appreciably better than UVA in Miami, regardless of statistics. I'd be willing to bet Michigan placing in the Top Five is mostly coincidental. Neither school has a strong home market they feed, so any substantial placement they have is graduates returning to their secondary markets. Not entirely, but mostly.

I hate giving you too much of my mind as I'm only a 0L just like yourself, but I feel like we're in a similar position and we can help each other get through the many decisions related to this ultimate decision. I hope you find a way to get through this (incredibly :roll: ) difficult decision.

Edited for grammar.
Last edited by Ramius on Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Michigan Darrow vs. UVA Dean's Scholarship

Postby ndirish2010 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:10 pm

This is a really tough decision, but I just wanted to congratulate you on the acceptances! I would lean towards UVA but that is entirely based upon personal preferences. Actually really like both AA and C'Ville but would prefer to live in C'Ville for three years.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Michigan Darrow vs. UVA Dean's Scholarship

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:18 pm

I can't speak to the rest of your questions, but I'm pretty sure age isn't an issue at all for clerking (I realize it's a more open question for biglaw). I started law school older than you will be when you start and am clerking now. So I wouldn't worry about that.

(Just as someone who grew up on the east coast and has family in Florida now, I suspect UVA would play a little better in Florida than Michigan would - I think it would be a bit more of a known quantity. But it's really just a slightly educated guess.)

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Michigan Darrow vs. UVA Dean's Scholarship

Postby bernaldiaz » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:27 pm

Also if you are willing to ride out the whole cycle I'm sure you'll have a few more great options

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elterrible78
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Re: Michigan Darrow vs. UVA Dean's Scholarship

Postby elterrible78 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:42 pm

matthewsean85 wrote:
Probably a good thing, given the hell of 1L as people have described it. But I know where you're coming from. I have lived apart from my wife for the last 5 years due to military orders and professional obligations. If this is the case though, you really should pick a place YOU want to be living. I sincerely doubt Michigan will place appreciably better than UVA in Miami, regardless of statistics. I'd be willing to bet Michigan placing in the Top Five is mostly coincidental. Neither school has a strong home market they feed, so any substantial placement they have is graduates returning to their secondary markets. Not entirely, but mostly.

I hate giving you too much of my mind as I'm only a 0L just like yourself, but I feel like we're in a similar position and we can help each other get through the many decisions related to this ultimate decision. I hope you find a way to get through this (incredibly :roll: ) difficult decision.



0Ls Helping 0Ls...I think that has a nice ring. I think it would be a somewhat easier decision to make after visiting both schools. I'm going to miss UVA's ASW because I'll be in Brazil, but I'm going to Michigan's and will take a spin over to see people at UVA and hopefully tour the campus and sit in on a class at least.

ndirish2010 wrote:This is a really tough decision, but I just wanted to congratulate you on the acceptances! I would lean towards UVA but that is entirely based upon personal preferences. Actually really like both AA and C'Ville but would prefer to live in C'Ville for three years.


I taught for a couple months in CVille, and I really liked the area, so there's that at least. I'd definitely have to visit both schools, I guess!

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I can't speak to the rest of your questions, but I'm pretty sure age isn't an issue at all for clerking (I realize it's a more open question for biglaw). I started law school older than you will be when you start and am clerking now. So I wouldn't worry about that.

(Just as someone who grew up on the east coast and has family in Florida now, I suspect UVA would play a little better in Florida than Michigan would - I think it would be a bit more of a known quantity. But it's really just a slightly educated guess.)


That's really encouraging, so thanks for that! If you don't mind me asking: how much older, where'd you go to school, and where are you clerking?

bernaldiaz wrote:Also if you are willing to ride out the whole cycle I'm sure you'll have a few more great options


Thanks for the vote of confidence, man. I'm not sure about anything, though, so I'm starting to consider options now.

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Michigan Darrow vs. UVA Dean's Scholarship

Postby bizzybone1313 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:43 pm

If he doesn't get money from CCN or admitted to YHS, he is getting royally fucked considering his numbers.

nebula666
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Re: Michigan Darrow vs. UVA Dean's Scholarship

Postby nebula666 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:11 am

Idk why this matters since you are going to YSH.

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radar714
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Re: Michigan Darrow vs. UVA Dean's Scholarship

Postby radar714 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:25 pm

if you get rejected from yale who gets in?!

May I ask what UG you went to?

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letsjustsee
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Re: Michigan Darrow vs. UVA Dean's Scholarship

Postby letsjustsee » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:56 am

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Last edited by letsjustsee on Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Myself
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.

Postby Myself » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:29 am

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Last edited by Myself on Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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elterrible78
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Re: Michigan Darrow vs. UVA Dean's Scholarship

Postby elterrible78 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:02 pm

Thanks to everyone for the input. I sincerely appreciate it.

I will visit both schools, for sure. The problem I have now is that I won't visit Michigan until ASW on April 5 and 6, but my seat deposit would be due at UVA on April 5. Chances of them putting it off a few days?

Also, I'm sure things will get more complicated. I'm not confident at all about getting into H or S, but NYU gave me a $87,500 scholarship ($105k if PI), which shakes things up a bit. Still don't think I'd take that over either of the full rides I have in hand, but there are more NYU grads at the big firms in Miami than Michigan and UVA grads combined, it looks like.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Michigan Darrow vs. UVA Dean's Scholarship

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:07 pm

I think most schools will give you an extension on your seat deposit if you ask (at least, I didn't run into any problems when I wanted to... not UVA, though!).

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Micdiddy
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Re: Michigan Darrow vs. UVA Dean's Scholarship

Postby Micdiddy » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:05 pm

Why bother taking either? You'll never succeed at anything in life, and should just give up trying. Besides, won't you be collecting social security in a few years anyway?

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Michigan Darrow vs. UVA Dean's Scholarship

Postby Doorkeeper » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:21 pm

I would be absolutely shocked if you don't get Harvard in the upcoming months. On a related note, you might want to use the full rides at UVA and Michigan to negotiate with Columbia and NYU (and use the $105k at NYU to negotiate with Columbia). I would think being close to an airport that serves Miami might be something somewhat important to you if your wife is going to be in Miami for the three years. That's a definitely leg up to Harvard or NYU/Columbia imo.

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elterrible78
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Re: Michigan Darrow vs. UVA Dean's Scholarship

Postby elterrible78 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:39 am

Micdiddy wrote:Why bother taking either? You'll never succeed at anything in life, and should just give up trying. Besides, won't you be collecting social security in a few years anyway?


Miraculous cracking of the T14 + immediately talking shit to other posters = serious inferiority complex.

delusional
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Re: Michigan Darrow vs. UVA Dean's Scholarship

Postby delusional » Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:19 am

I would be really surprised if you don't get H, although I'm not 100% sure that it would be better than a full ride at MV. (OTOH, It's pretty surprising that you haven't gotten H already).

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Re: Michigan Darrow vs. UVA Dean's Scholarship

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:00 pm

Michigan versus UVA is really just a toss-up based on personal preference, IMO. But I think given your goals, you really need to hold out for Harvard. Your odds of successfully clerking and/or teaching are probably tripled by going to Harvard, and I suspect the HLS name brand will play much better in a smaller market like Miami, where there are few enough jobs that you need whatever advantage you can get to stand out.

If you would just be happy doing NYC biglaw I'd say Michigan, Virginia, or NYU would all be good choices, but for your goals, the Harvard advantage is substantial. (Though don't get me wrong, either way those are good choices! Congrats.)

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Micdiddy
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Re: Michigan Darrow vs. UVA Dean's Scholarship

Postby Micdiddy » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:18 pm

elterrible78 wrote:
Micdiddy wrote:Why bother taking either? You'll never succeed at anything in life, and should just give up trying. Besides, won't you be collecting social security in a few years anyway?


Miraculous cracking of the T14 + immediately talking shit to other posters = serious inferiority complex.


You really think that of me? Oh god, I'm so stupid! STUPID STUPID MICDIDDY!
I'm going to cry in a corner now for 90 minutes before I go out with friends and fake being happy.

I just want one friend...but I don't know how to approach people.

Now where's that cat? I'm so lonely...

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North
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Re: Michigan Darrow vs. UVA Dean's Scholarship

Postby North » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:43 pm

Micdiddy wrote:
elterrible78 wrote:
Micdiddy wrote:Why bother taking either? You'll never succeed at anything in life, and should just give up trying. Besides, won't you be collecting social security in a few years anyway?


Miraculous cracking of the T14 + immediately talking shit to other posters = serious inferiority complex.


You really think that of me? Oh god, I'm so stupid! STUPID STUPID MICDIDDY!
I'm going to cry in a corner now for 90 minutes before I go out with friends and fake being happy.

I just want one friend...but I don't know how to approach people.

Now where's that cat? I'm so lonely...

Wat

Fitz51
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Re: Michigan Darrow vs. UVA Dean's Scholarship

Postby Fitz51 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:56 pm

elterrible78 wrote:
Micdiddy wrote:Why bother taking either? You'll never succeed at anything in life, and should just give up trying. Besides, won't you be collecting social security in a few years anyway?


Miraculous cracking of the T14 + immediately talking shit to other posters = serious inferiority complex.


I think he was joking...




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