Some advice? ND, U of I.. wait?

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star fox
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Some advice? ND, U of I.. wait?

Postby star fox » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:41 pm

LSAT (1 try): 167
LSDAS GPA: 3.83 (now a little higher, could go either way after spring semester when I graduate)

I've been accepted to Notre Dame with a $22K a year scholarship. No contingencies other than remaining in good standing.
I've been accepted into Illinois with a 50 % tuition scholarship. No stipulations.

I'm still waiting to hear back from Chicago, Northwestern, and Michigan but am not optimistic about any of them. Chicago's stats are out of my range. Northwestern wants people with a full year of work experience. I applied to Michigan late in the cycle and am not a URM.
Last edited by star fox on Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Some advice? ND, U of I.. wait?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:03 pm

Sounds like you know the right answer. In addition to all the normal reasons to re-take, you have the added benefit of being able to include your excellent senior year grades when you apply next year. Get straight A's this spring, take a course other than Kaplan or self-study using the methods recommended in the LSAT forum, and try again next cycle. I am 100% sure that you will be thrilled with that decision at this time next year.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Some advice? ND, U of I.. wait?

Postby ndirish2010 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:04 pm

Just PMed you back, but having seen your stats, you should definitely retake. That's a sweet GPA.

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Crowing
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Re: Some advice? ND, U of I.. wait?

Postby Crowing » Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:06 pm

it sounds like you are already perhaps leaning toward retaking and reapplying and i would definitely recommend it. from what i hear chicago as a market has been particularly hard hit by and slow to recover from the recession. i would hold out for chicago/nu or a bigger scholly from one of those other schools.

Ti Malice
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Re: Some advice? ND, U of I.. wait?

Postby Ti Malice » Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:31 pm

Absolutely retake. The fact that you got a 167 with the albatross of the Kaplan methodology around your neck is pretty impressive. You should be able to improve quite a bit more with better methods at your disposal. If you like the structure a course provides, take one from Testmasters, Powerscore, or Manhattan LSAT.

With a 170, you're essentially a lock at NU. Your odds at Chicago are decent with a 171, and they're strong with a 172.

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star fox
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Re: Some advice? ND, U of I.. wait?

Postby star fox » Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:35 pm

Ti Malice wrote:Absolutely retake. The fact that you got a 167 with the albatross of the Kaplan methodology around your neck is pretty impressive. You should be able to improve quite a bit more with better methods at your disposal. If you like the structure a course provides, take one from Testmasters, Powerscore, or Manhattan LSAT.

With a 170, you're essentially a lock at NU. Your odds at Chicago are decent with a 171, and they're strong with a 172.


What's wrong with Kaplan? I thought they gave useful little hints to figuring out shortcuts for most questions. I will say though that I thought the class seemed more designed for students around 155 to push them up to 160 as opposed for the student who could get a 165 on their own to get into the 170's. Would you say that the three you mentioned at the end are ideal for the student who is serious about scoring in the 170s?

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romothesavior
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Re: Some advice? ND, U of I.. wait?

Postby romothesavior » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:08 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:Just PMed you back, but having seen your stats, you should definitely retake. That's a sweet GPA.

TL;DR the OP, but ndirish usually speaks true so listen to him.

Jose Reyes
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Re: Some advice? ND, U of I.. wait?

Postby Jose Reyes » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:01 pm

Retake.

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mattviphky
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Re: Some advice? ND, U of I.. wait?

Postby mattviphky » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:58 pm

Dude retaking can ONLY benefit you. Don't worry about the LSAT this semester, just focus on getting a 4.0, and that might lift your overall GPA to almost a 3.9. Then worry about studying for the October LSAT. If you boost it a few points, have a 3.9, and do something in your year off, then NW/UC will have a hard time saying no. If you have time this semester, and feel yourself rapidly improving, maybe taking in June would be a possibility, plus you can always take a 3rd time in October...just in case.

catlawl
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Re: Some advice? ND, U of I.. wait?

Postby catlawl » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:26 pm

Definitely retake the LSAT in October. I was in an almost identical situation when applying to law school my senior year of college. At the time, I strongly opposed waiting one year because doing so felt, for whatever reason, like giving in to defeat. When you are ambitious and have your hopes set on attending law school, waiting one year due to a (relatively) low LSAT score creates feelings of inadequacy.

However, these thoughts are irrational. First, there is nothing wrong with honest work. Working one year is not defeat. Second, you may be able to save some money for school expenses. Third, legal employers appreciate applicants who did not take the K-JD path. Most importantly, waiting affords the opportunity to either attend a school with better job prospects, or attend one of the same schools to which you have already applied with more scholarship money.

Additionally, don't be scared about the difficulty of finding a prestigious or impressive job after college graduation. After college I worked a $10 an hour job, was at the bottom of the corporate totem pole, and yet I still don't regret taking a year off. Working one year will be good for you.

catlawl
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Re: Some advice? ND, U of I.. wait?

Postby catlawl » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:27 pm

I forgot to mention that you should not use Kaplan. Powerscore worked well for me.

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JCougar
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Re: Some advice? ND, U of I.. wait?

Postby JCougar » Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:13 am

john7234797 wrote:I'm still waiting to hear back from Chicago, Northwestern, and Michigan but am not optimistic about any of them. Chicago's stats are out of my range. Northwestern wants people with a full year of work experience. I applied to Michigan late in the cycle and am not a URM. My softs aren't anything special (not horrible either as I worked during school and had an internship over the summer, but nothing that really stands out.)


wut?

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ndirish2010
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Re: Some advice? ND, U of I.. wait?

Postby ndirish2010 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:12 pm

JCougar wrote:
john7234797 wrote:I'm still waiting to hear back from Chicago, Northwestern, and Michigan but am not optimistic about any of them. Chicago's stats are out of my range. Northwestern wants people with a full year of work experience. I applied to Michigan late in the cycle and am not a URM. My softs aren't anything special (not horrible either as I worked during school and had an internship over the summer, but nothing that really stands out.)


wut?


Looks like it means exactly what he said: He applied to UM late in the cycle, and he's not a URM. What was so difficult to understand?

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romothesavior
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Re: Some advice? ND, U of I.. wait?

Postby romothesavior » Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:24 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:
JCougar wrote:
john7234797 wrote:I'm still waiting to hear back from Chicago, Northwestern, and Michigan but am not optimistic about any of them. Chicago's stats are out of my range. Northwestern wants people with a full year of work experience. I applied to Michigan late in the cycle and am not a URM. My softs aren't anything special (not horrible either as I worked during school and had an internship over the summer, but nothing that really stands out.)


wut?


Looks like it means exactly what he said: He applied to UM late in the cycle, and he's not a URM. What was so difficult to understand?

Yeah, not sure what's weird about this. Strange sentence maybe, but it's information people commonly ask in this forum and is super relevant to any discussion about admissions.

OP, I just read most of your first post. Retake, retake, retake. For the love of god, retake.

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JCougar
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Re: Some advice? ND, U of I.. wait?

Postby JCougar » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:50 am

ndirish2010 wrote:
JCougar wrote:
john7234797 wrote:I'm still waiting to hear back from Chicago, Northwestern, and Michigan but am not optimistic about any of them. Chicago's stats are out of my range. Northwestern wants people with a full year of work experience. I applied to Michigan late in the cycle and am not a URM. My softs aren't anything special (not horrible either as I worked during school and had an internship over the summer, but nothing that really stands out.)


wut?


Looks like it means exactly what he said: He applied to UM late in the cycle, and he's not a URM. What was so difficult to understand?


I read them both in conjunction, as in "late in the cycle, Michigan only admits URMs." But I guess I can see how they were meant to be unrelated.

Nevertheless, this year is almost certainly not going to be a bad year to apply late in the cycle (just like last year), and this dood seems to be almost a lock to get into Michigan with the numbers he has, so I wouldn't be as pessimistic.

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star fox
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Re: Some advice? ND, U of I.. wait?

Postby star fox » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:11 pm

JCougar wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:
JCougar wrote:
john7234797 wrote:I'm still waiting to hear back from Chicago, Northwestern, and Michigan but am not optimistic about any of them. Chicago's stats are out of my range. Northwestern wants people with a full year of work experience. I applied to Michigan late in the cycle and am not a URM. My softs aren't anything special (not horrible either as I worked during school and had an internship over the summer, but nothing that really stands out.)


wut?


Looks like it means exactly what he said: He applied to UM late in the cycle, and he's not a URM. What was so difficult to understand?


I read them both in conjunction, as in "late in the cycle, Michigan only admits URMs." But I guess I can see how they were meant to be unrelated.

Nevertheless, this year is almost certainly not going to be a bad year to apply late in the cycle (just like last year), and this dood seems to be almost a lock to get into Michigan with the numbers he has, so I wouldn't be as pessimistic.


I'm sorry if it came across as me whining about AA or anything, that wasn't my intention. Just giving additional info that could impact their decision. I hope you're right about Michigan but I'm not holding my breath. Even if I do get accepted it'll probably be at sticker price so that would be another decision I'd have to make before diving into a quarter million dollars of debt.

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JCougar
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Re: Some advice? ND, U of I.. wait?

Postby JCougar » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:45 pm

john7234797 wrote:I'm sorry if it came across as me whining about AA or anything, that wasn't my intention. Just giving additional info that could impact their decision. I hope you're right about Michigan but I'm not holding my breath. Even if I do get accepted it'll probably be at sticker price so that would be another decision I'd have to make before diving into a quarter million dollars of debt.


No prob...I just misread what you wrote.

I still agree with the consensus here. I think you will probably get into Michigan, but there's no reason not to retake. You could be giving up a hundred thousand dollars in scholarships by settling for the score you have. Even three extra points with your GPA would have a massive effect--as in huge scholarship at Northwestern or admittance to Chicago. Plus, an extra year would give you the work experience NW likes.

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suralin
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Re: Some advice? ND, U of I.. wait?

Postby suralin » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:11 pm

john7234797 wrote:I took a Kaplan Course second semester of my Junior year, did all the homework and studied throughout the semester. Classes ended in May and I stayed down at school for a month to really power study for the LSAT. My scores generally improved until I hit a plateau in my studying (all of a sudden reading comp which came naturally started becoming difficult as I tried incorporating the "Kaplan method"). I took the June LSAT and I was pretty happy with my score of 167 but was obviously hoping to break 170.

My undergraduate GPA from the University of Illinois majoring in History and Political Science was a 3.79 at the time I sent in my law school applications. I had a 4.0 last semester so now it's at a 3.82. My LSDAS GPA (which includes A+ as being higher than A) was a 3.83 at the time I submitted my application. Not sure what it is now, probably like a 3.84 or 3.85.

So to recap
LSAT (1 try): 167
LSDAS GPA: 3.83 (now a little higher, could go either way after spring semester when I graduate)

I've been accepted to Notre Dame with a $22K a year scholarship. No contingencies other than remaining in good standing.
I've been accepted into Illinois with a 50 % tuition scholarship. No stipulations.

I'm still waiting to hear back from Chicago, Northwestern, and Michigan but am not optimistic about any of them. Chicago's stats are out of my range. Northwestern wants people with a full year of work experience. I applied to Michigan late in the cycle and am not a URM. My softs aren't anything special (not horrible either as I worked during school and had an internship over the summer, but nothing that really stands out.)

I've lived in the Chicagoland my entire life and my career goals are 100 % centered around working in Chicago (or at least somewhere not too far from there). Aside from a girlfriend's uncle who is a big shot Defense Attorney (regularly appears on Fox News and CNN, on "superlawyers", recently defended a high profile client), I have no ties to the legal industry. I would like to work BigLaw but am comfortable working Mid-Law as long as it will give me the ability to pay off the debt I will inquire in Law School (thanks to scholarships + fin aid + family contribution + working I'm fortunate to be graduating undergrad debt free) and live a comfortable life (I don't really care if I'm fabulously wealthy but don't want to stress about money my whole life and would like to be able to do things like go to sporting events, own a home and be able to pay for my children's college some day.

I've wanted to be a Lawyer since my senior year of high school when I took a business law course as a blow-off elective that I ended up really liking a lot. However, everything I've read about lawyers and law school says this is a terrible idea since there's such an oversaturation of lawyers (damn you 3rd/4th tiers accepting anyone with a Bachelor's Degree) and structural changes in the profession (businesses have wisened up that they don't need to pay BigLaw $300 an hour so that green associates can do work that a paralegal can do at a fraction of the cost). I really have no other idea of what to do with my life or what I could be even become. My Liberal Arts degree isn't worth the paper it's to be printed on. Wish I would have majored in Business and just become an Accountant but I was of course a stupid 18 year old who thought I'd be making $160 K a year out of Law School by attending John Marshall. Oops.

So any advice would be helpful. Notre Dame and Illinois are good regional schools for where I want to work and the scholarships make it at least not as awful as it could be. But still, there's those other big T14 powerhouses in the area to compete with as well as Ivy League trustfund babies returning home. I really don't like the LSAT and would prefer to never open another book again but re-taking it and working a year could really push me into Northwestern or Michigan (maybe even Chicago if I do well enough) so it may be worth it? Sorry for the long first post, I've obviously been thinking about this for a while.


Sounds like you know what to do, so just do it.

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star fox
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Re: Some advice? ND, U of I.. wait?

Postby star fox » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:25 pm

Suralin wrote:Sounds like you know what to do, so just do it.


Sometimes it's nice to just get all of your thoughts down on paper.




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