Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

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UtilityMonster
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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby UtilityMonster » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:16 pm

bernaldiaz wrote:Does anyone know how often the waves of Rubies go out? Does anyone know if there is precedent to actively negotiate into a Ruby (as opposed to just waiting for the next rounds to go out and hope you're included in it)? I really really want the option.


A wave should happen just after Chicago's ASW, because the deadline for Ruby applicants to make a decision is two days after the weekend. Presumably, if people turn down their Rubies prior to that deadline, UChicago will immediately send offers to other applicants. I'm sure they have already rank ordered runner-up applicants to offer scholarships to in the event recipients turn them down.

I'm curious if they made more than 20 initial offers, despite only planning to give out 20 scholarships. I don't see why they wouldn't, and if so, it is a possibility that very few other offers will be made.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby bernaldiaz » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:34 pm

UtilityMonster wrote:
bernaldiaz wrote:Does anyone know how often the waves of Rubies go out? Does anyone know if there is precedent to actively negotiate into a Ruby (as opposed to just waiting for the next rounds to go out and hope you're included in it)? I really really want the option.


A wave should happen just after Chicago's ASW, because the deadline for Ruby applicants to make a decision is two days after the weekend. Presumably, if people turn down their Rubies prior to that deadline, UChicago will immediately send offers to other applicants. I'm sure they have already rank ordered runner-up applicants to offer scholarships to in the event recipients turn them down.

I'm curious if they made more than 20 initial offers, despite only planning to give out 20 scholarships. I don't see why they wouldn't, and if so, it is a possibility that very few other offers will be made.


I might try to get proactive. Thanks for the intel.

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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby vzapana » Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:01 pm

Omg I never thought I would be checking in here. You all are gods, but I most certainly am not.

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Spritzpiggy
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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby Spritzpiggy » Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:55 pm

Ditto to the above! I never thought I would post in this thread for real!

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UtilityMonster
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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby UtilityMonster » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:49 am

Just checked lsn and saw a guy with a 4.0 180 took the ruby already and withdrew from Yale before he even heard back. That may have been a bit rash...

Chance that UChicago admissions officers created that account to make ruby recipients more likely to take the scholarship? 5%

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domino
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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby domino » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:52 am

^ I'm guessing that dude's ColeWorld--he was saying in another thread that Chicago was his #1 from the beginning of the cycle

vzapana
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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby vzapana » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:54 am

UtilityMonster wrote:Just checked lsn and saw a guy with a 4.0 180 took the ruby already and withdrew from Yale before he even heard back. That may have been a bit rash...

Chance that UChicago admissions officers created that account to make ruby recipients more likely to take the scholarship? 5%


I dunno. He might have needed to accept the scholarship by now. If he got the ruby early, then the response deadline would be early, too, and so he needed to make a choice. I don't think he chose poorly

abstractcircles
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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby abstractcircles » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:15 am

Wow, can't believe I'm posting in this thread....

I just received my Rubenstein today, prior to today I was 100% set on going to Harvard. I have a science background and am planning to go in to patent prosecution or end up as intellectual property in-house council. I also have an interest in "transactional law" - mainly writing contracts for biotech/pharma. I plan to end up in the bay area california (haven't heard from SLS yet.....).

My primary focus is on picking the best choice for making sure I'm employed in my chosen field after law school. Yes in the short term having the Rubenstein would be amazing, but if Harvard gave me a better edge as far as securing a dream job then I may actually earn much more over the next 30 years than I would have saved with the Rubenstein.

Anyone have any advice? Facing a similar situation?

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UtilityMonster
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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby UtilityMonster » Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:26 am

vzapana wrote:
UtilityMonster wrote:Just checked lsn and saw a guy with a 4.0 180 took the ruby already and withdrew from Yale before he even heard back. That may have been a bit rash...

Chance that UChicago admissions officers created that account to make ruby recipients more likely to take the scholarship? 5%


I dunno. He might have needed to accept the scholarship by now. If he got the ruby early, then the response deadline would be early, too, and so he needed to make a choice. I don't think he chose poorly


The response deadline is not until April 15.

domino wrote:^ I'm guessing that dude's ColeWorld--he was saying in another thread that Chicago was his #1 from the beginning of the cycle


Yeah, it was him. Did he offer a reason why Chicago was his #1? I'm guessing he has ties to the area?

abstractcircles wrote:Wow, can't believe I'm posting in this thread....

I just received my Rubenstein today, prior to today I was 100% set on going to Harvard. I have a science background and am planning to go in to patent prosecution or end up as intellectual property in-house council. I also have an interest in "transactional law" - mainly writing contracts for biotech/pharma. I plan to end up in the bay area california (haven't heard from SLS yet.....).

My primary focus is on picking the best choice for making sure I'm employed in my chosen field after law school. Yes in the short term having the Rubenstein would be amazing, but if Harvard gave me a better edge as far as securing a dream job then I may actually earn much more over the next 30 years than I would have saved with the Rubenstein.

Anyone have any advice? Facing a similar situation?


If you want to end up in California and don't want to pay for law school, you could try asking Berkeley to match your scholarship through their matching scholarship program. I have no idea when they get back to people (I've been waiting for weeks). I doubt they will match a $10,000/yr stipend even if they do give you a full ride, though. Berkeley and Chicago were once considered peer schools, and I don't think there is a huge difference between them (I'd also expect to perform much better at Berkeley than UChicago relative to other students, making it just as likely that you get a clerkship or great job offer after graduating, although there is no guarantee... I'm very interested in the r^2 between full tuition scholarship recipients and grades, because I'm incredibly risk averse).

I've been thinking long term about Harvard v. Chicago. With the assumption that you work 30 years and Harvard nets you a mere $10,000 more a year on average, long term it would about pay itself off in real terms. Although the truth is that I have no idea how much more you are likely to earn as a Harvard grad than a Chicago grad (although if Harvard doesn't net its graduates a mere $10,000 more a year on average than Columbia/Chicago, why the obsession over it?), and I doubt there are good numbers on that. It is interesting because I have heard conflicting reports from people who took the Rubenstein and people who picked HYS over what is the better decision.

If what spicyyoda said is true, and the scholarships do not confer any improved employment prospects, I have designed an algorithm that may be somewhat useful:

Pick Harvard if:
You really really want to go to Harvard and
Your parents are loaded (or you are, somehow) and attending would not cause you a financial burden or
You receive significant financial aid or
You want academia or a nontraditional career that Harvard gives you a significant advantage with

Pick Ruby if:
You would have to take on substantial debt to attend Harvard and
You desire a fairly traditional law career

In my case, I want to be something of a public intellectual (write articles for newspapers, teach at a university, write books) and my parents are helping me pay the costs of law school so I'm actually leaning toward Harvard, despite what appears to be a general consensus that picking Harvard over a Ruby is usually a bad idea. I'll make my decision after going to the ASWs.

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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby RodneyRuxin » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:12 am

I have a good friend with a Ruby and am willing to answer questions via PM.


Also wanted to point out that UChi isn't just for "traditional careers," it's just as strong or stronger than HLS for academia.

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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby vzapana » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:23 am

Anyone wanna talk about ruby vs. stanford? That seems to be my big struggle ATM.

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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby spicyyoda17 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:29 am

vzapana wrote:Anyone wanna talk about ruby vs. stanford? That seems to be my big struggle ATM.


Career goals? Personal interests? Financial situation?

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UtilityMonster
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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby UtilityMonster » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:54 am

RodneyRuxin wrote:Also wanted to point out that UChi isn't just for "traditional careers," it's just as strong or stronger than HLS for academia.


There is a huge gap between Uchicago + HYS and the rest of the law schools in terms of success getting jobs in legal academia, I realize. But I thought it common knowledge that Harvard had a significant edge over Chicago here, and I've definitely never heard the suggestion that Chicago was better than Harvard. It probably doesn't make much of a difference because people who get Rubensteins will probably perform well and be in the top of their classes anyway.

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callmemaybe84
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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby callmemaybe84 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:21 am

UtilityMonster wrote:
RodneyRuxin wrote:Also wanted to point out that UChi isn't just for "traditional careers," it's just as strong or stronger than HLS for academia.


There is a huge gap between Uchicago + HYS and the rest of the law schools in terms of success getting jobs in legal academia, I realize. But I thought it common knowledge that Harvard had a significant edge over Chicago here, and I've definitely never heard the suggestion that Chicago was better than Harvard. It probably doesn't make much of a difference because people who get Rubensteins will probably perform well and be in the top of their classes anyway.


Tough question. We don't know how Rubies (yes, that's my pluralization) will do in the market b/c Chicago has never had them. Class of 2014 is the first to have rubies. Will clerkships jump that year? Will academic jobs become more open to Rubies? Will the best firms want to recruit those that chose Chicago over HYS? None of us making this choice can know what the answer to that is. But I think being a 3d year Ruby is the best year to be, and I think that you can't underestimate how incredible having no debt will be when it comes to preparing yourself for the academic job market in seven or eight years from now (when trends will change).

I don't think HSCh are any better than one another for academia (I think Y might boost its students a fair bit). I just don't think Chicago has ever been able to recruit the kind of talent it can now--offering free rides and a guaranteed extra prestige to a diploma (trust me, every employer/judge/search committee will know that a Ruby means "I turned down at least Harvard Law School")

I'm making this exact choice (H at sticker/Ruby), and unless Yale comes calling, I'll see you in Hyde Park. The name of your law school will matter less and less over our lifetimes. But I know there's going to be a time when I'm in my 20s that I am truly glad that I have no debt.

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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby domino » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:33 am

UtilityMonster wrote:
domino wrote:^ I'm guessing that dude's ColeWorld--he was saying in another thread that Chicago was his #1 from the beginning of the cycle


Yeah, it was him. Did he offer a reason why Chicago was his #1? I'm guessing he has ties to the area?


I didn't see any more detail, but he is probably a robot, so his motivations might be hard to understand...

ETA robots are great

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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby justinp » Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:30 am

UtilityMonster wrote:I don't think HSCh are any better than one another for academia (I think Y might boost its students a fair bit). I just don't think Chicago has ever been able to recruit the kind of talent it can now--offering free rides and a guaranteed extra prestige to a diploma (trust me, every employer/judge/search committee will know that a Ruby means "I turned down at least Harvard Law School")


There are plenty of good reasons to choose the CC full rides over HYS, but this absolutely is not one of them. When I was deciding last year (Hamilton/HLS) every Hamilton I talked to said that virtually no one had any idea what the Hamilton was, and that they absolutely did not feel like anyone was impressed by it beyond a "huh, cool" reaction. That's going to be doubly true for the Rubenstein, which is a one-off deal that is going to be done by next year or the year after. The Hamilton has been around for quite a while and is a major institutional commitment on Columbia's part-- if no one knows what it is then you can be damn sure that no one knows what a Rubenstein is.

Anyhow, as I've told everyone I've talked to about this stuff, there's no wrong answer to this. Shoot me a PM if you want to talk to someone who turned down the scholly and is very happy they did.

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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby toothbrush » Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:32 am

justinp wrote:
UtilityMonster wrote:I don't think HSCh are any better than one another for academia (I think Y might boost its students a fair bit). I just don't think Chicago has ever been able to recruit the kind of talent it can now--offering free rides and a guaranteed extra prestige to a diploma (trust me, every employer/judge/search committee will know that a Ruby means "I turned down at least Harvard Law School")


There are plenty of good reasons to choose the CC full rides over HYS, but this absolutely is not one of them. When I was deciding last year (Hamilton/HLS) every Hamilton I talked to said that virtually no one had any idea what the Hamilton was, and that they absolutely did not feel like anyone was impressed by it beyond a "huh, cool" reaction. That's going to be doubly true for the Rubenstein, which is a one-off deal that is going to be done by next year or the year after. The Hamilton has been around for quite a while and is a major institutional commitment on Columbia's part-- if no one knows what it is then you can be damn sure that no one knows what a Rubenstein is.

Anyhow, as I've told everyone I've talked to about this stuff, there's no wrong answer to this. Shoot me a PM if you want to talk to someone who turned down the scholly and is very happy they did.[/quote]

Isn't the point that you wouldn't be unhappy 'til you're 3 years out of LS repaying that hys debt and on equal footing as the ccn grads (aka that hys debt didn't matter?)

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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby hume85 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:18 pm

Is this the thread where we talk about our favorite sandwiches?

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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby vzapana » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:48 pm

hume85 wrote:Is this the thread where we talk about our favorite sandwiches?


i like the reuben. or a good banh mi.

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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby vzapana » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:50 pm

spicyyoda17 wrote:
vzapana wrote:Anyone wanna talk about ruby vs. stanford? That seems to be my big struggle ATM.


Career goals? Personal interests? Financial situation?


still waiting on an app, so i don't want to describe my situation just yet. i'll say this: financial aid does matter, and i do want to maximize the opportunity to go into nontraditional, non-biglaw legal work. (I wouldn't mind working in biglaw for a few years, though.)

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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby RodneyRuxin » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:55 pm

To follow up: UChicago and Yale are known as breeding grounds for academia. Not saying that H/S would be worse, it's just Yale/UChi are the reputation. I think it has something to do with the small class sizes and relationships with professors (the latter is very important when it comes to getting into academia).

That being said, Harvard is a great school for that too, but I don't think Chi is at any significant disadvantage, and their Biegelow program is a great way for people to enter academia.

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Yukos
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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby Yukos » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:55 pm

vzapana wrote:
spicyyoda17 wrote:
vzapana wrote:Anyone wanna talk about ruby vs. stanford? That seems to be my big struggle ATM.


Career goals? Personal interests? Financial situation?


still waiting on an app, so i don't want to describe my situation just yet. i'll say this: financial aid does matter, and i do want to maximize the opportunity to go into nontraditional, non-biglaw legal work. (I wouldn't mind working in biglaw for a few years, though.)


If you see gov't/PI in your future I think HYS is definitely worth it. Not only would it give you a non-negligible boost (from what I can tell, I'm a 0L) but the LRAP makes your debt more or less meaningless. A really awesome job I've been looking at pays about $50,000 -- at that level of compensation, I wouldn't need need to pay a single dollar of my debt as far as I can tell.

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callmemaybe84
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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby callmemaybe84 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:13 pm

RodneyRuxin wrote:To follow up: UChicago and Yale are known as breeding grounds for academia. Not saying that H/S would be worse, it's just Yale/UChi are the reputation. I think it has something to do with the small class sizes and relationships with professors (the latter is very important when it comes to getting into academia).

That being said, Harvard is a great school for that too, but I don't think Chi is at any significant disadvantage, and their Biegelow program is a great way for people to enter academia.


So if Academia/clerkships is your goal, you'd say:

Ruby > HLS

The no debt advantage is greater than the Hahvahd name?

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UtilityMonster
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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby UtilityMonster » Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:33 pm

justinp wrote:
UtilityMonster wrote:I don't think HSCh are any better than one another for academia (I think Y might boost its students a fair bit). I just don't think Chicago has ever been able to recruit the kind of talent it can now--offering free rides and a guaranteed extra prestige to a diploma (trust me, every employer/judge/search committee will know that a Ruby means "I turned down at least Harvard Law School")


There are plenty of good reasons to choose the CC full rides over HYS, but this absolutely is not one of them. When I was deciding last year (Hamilton/HLS) every Hamilton I talked to said that virtually no one had any idea what the Hamilton was, and that they absolutely did not feel like anyone was impressed by it beyond a "huh, cool" reaction. That's going to be doubly true for the Rubenstein, which is a one-off deal that is going to be done by next year or the year after. The Hamilton has been around for quite a while and is a major institutional commitment on Columbia's part-- if no one knows what it is then you can be damn sure that no one knows what a Rubenstein is.

Anyhow, as I've told everyone I've talked to about this stuff, there's no wrong answer to this. Shoot me a PM if you want to talk to someone who turned down the scholly and is very happy they did.


Just FYI, I didn't say that, but you quoted me as saying it.

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Yukos
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Re: Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2016

Postby Yukos » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:36 pm

All the SP avatars in this thread are confusing...




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