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mmbt123
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Postby mmbt123 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:30 pm

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Last edited by mmbt123 on Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

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megagnarley
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Re: Where should I go T10-14

Postby megagnarley » Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:33 pm

mmbt123 wrote:Hi all,

Where should I go in the T10-14? I'm waitlisted at a the T7s.

I will probably have to pay close to sticker at all these T10-14 (though my parents will cover 50-100% of living costs). I may be able to get a little more money at UCLA or USC but I am not liking their employment stats...

My thinking right now is that I'll go gain some biglaw experience for a handful of years then try to move into a government position.

I have a liberal arts degree and know that my chances for meaningful employment are slim with what I have. I'll basically be doing admin type stuff forever if I don't move onto law school.


Numbers? Retake?

otnemem
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Re: Where should I go T10-14

Postby otnemem » Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:42 pm

What part of the country do you want to work in?

mmbt123
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Postby mmbt123 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:45 pm

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Last edited by mmbt123 on Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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suralin
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Re: Where should I go T10-14

Postby suralin » Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:55 pm

mmbt123 wrote:3.6 / 169

This is my third score (but I took 2 of them several years ago so I could retake). I suppose I could retake in the summer since my worst section was games and conventional wisdom is that it's the easiest to improve upon. But, I am a few years out of college, weary of the position I'm in, and eager to get on w/ life knowing that I am definitely interested in law.

I want do biglaw b/c I've heard it offers very good training which other employers, like the us gov, recognize. But at the same time, I've been reading some other TLS threads and people seem to be saying that T10-14 at sticker is not a great idea and that biglaw positions are soul-sucking gigs without much stability.

That said, I think I'll be able to pay off my debts in at least half the time as it would take another biglaw associate given that I'll have spousal support by then.

I would want to work in a major metropolitan area but I'm flexible b/c my fiance hasn't decided where she'll be submitting residency applications to yet and has indicated she'd be willing to work w/ me on that.

Thanks for your help; appreciate it!


Where are your ties?

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RhymesLikeDimes
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Re: Where should I go T10-14

Postby RhymesLikeDimes » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:01 pm

If you can get into 10-14, you should have a decent shot at good money from a T25 or Fordham. Sticker at Duke/Cornell/GULC/NW is risky, especially with no real connections.

mmbt123
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Postby mmbt123 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:07 pm

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Last edited by mmbt123 on Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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suralin
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Re: Where should I go T10-14

Postby suralin » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:08 pm

mmbt123 wrote:I've been working in NYC for going on three years. It's okay here, don't love it though.

I'm originally from California and went to school there but my fiance is much more interested in NYC, Chicago, or Boston than CA. But if I went to either USC or UCLA, I could just live at home so cost of living would be virtually nil.

If I got $35000 from UMinn, is there a chance I can negotiate something from USC or UCLA?

My reservation about T20 or fordham is that their employment stats suck. From browsing through TLS, it seems like you'd have to be in top 5-10% of your class to get a job and certain biglaw employers have more demanding standards for T20...for example, at UCLA you'd have to be at top 5% to get a look where as at Michigan, you'd have to be at top 10%. While I'm confident I can do reasonably well, I think it's really naive and premature for me to predict that I could be top 5-10% at schools that attract pretty bright ppl.


lolwut

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Ramius
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Re: Where should I go T10-14

Postby Ramius » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:10 pm

mmbt123 wrote:I've been working in NYC for going on three years. It's okay here, don't love it though.

I'm originally from California and went to school there but my fiance is much more interested in NYC, Chicago, or Boston than CA. But if I went to either USC or UCLA, I could just live at home so cost of living would be virtually nil.

If I got $35000 from UMinn, is there a chance I can negotiate something from USC or UCLA?

My reservation about T20 or fordham is that their employment stats suck. From browsing through TLS, it seems like you'd have to be in top 5-10% of your class to get a job and certain biglaw employers have more demanding standards for T20...for example, at UCLA you'd have to be at top 5% to get a look where as at Michigan, you'd have to be at top 10%. While I'm confident I can do reasonably well, I think it's really naive and premature for me to predict that I could be top 5-10% at schools that attract pretty bright ppl.


You know, because all of the 25% of those who get BIGLAW at USC/UCLA place in the top 5% of their class. Fact.

mmbt123
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Re: Where should I go T10-14

Postby mmbt123 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:17 pm

matthewsean85 wrote:
You know, because all of the 25% of those who get BIGLAW at USC/UCLA place in the top 5% of their class. Fact.


Ugh not saying that it's FACT. This is simply some of the arguments I've found on TLS and am looking for clarification.

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RhymesLikeDimes
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Re: Where should I go T10-14

Postby RhymesLikeDimes » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:29 pm

Fordham wildly outperforms their ranking when it comes to big law. They have a lot of connections in the city.

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suralin
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Re: Where should I go T10-14

Postby suralin » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:29 pm

mmbt123 wrote:
matthewsean85 wrote:
You know, because all of the 25% of those who get BIGLAW at USC/UCLA place in the top 5% of their class. Fact.


Ugh not saying that it's FACT. This is simply some of the arguments I've found on TLS and am looking for clarification.


Lol okay. Link to those "arguments"?

mmbt123
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Re: Where should I go T10-14

Postby mmbt123 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:34 pm

RhymesLikeDimes wrote:Fordham wildly outperforms their ranking when it comes to big law. They have a lot of connections in the city.


Thanks! Will take a better look at Fordham.

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megagnarley
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Re: Where should I go T10-14

Postby megagnarley » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:35 pm

mmbt123 wrote:
matthewsean85 wrote:
You know, because all of the 25% of those who get BIGLAW at USC/UCLA place in the top 5% of their class. Fact.


Ugh not saying that it's FACT. This is simply some of the arguments I've found on TLS and am looking for clarification.


This will help clarify biglaw placement data for you: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=181415

In regards to your situation, it's actually similar to mine. CA native two years out of undergad sitting on a 169/3.65 split and retook December to bump it to a 170. Incidentally, games was my worst section, and I spent all of Nov. drilling to get down to -0/-1 before misdiagramming the last game on Dec and going -6 on the section.

That being said, what once would have been sticker at the lower half of t-14 now looks like $$ at the lower half and at least a shot at schools like NYU off the wait-list.

I would retake 100%. I am even retaking June again after this cycle shakes out due to underperforming, and might even wait a year for more $$ if I break 174.

If you can stomach another year of your job, it's worth it if you think you can score 170+ and submit early.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Where should I go T10-14

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:38 pm

Pretty rough advice in here. Duke, Northwestern, et al at sticker is way the hell better than Fordham with whatever money you're likely to get there. The admissions standards are just not that much lower at the T25-30 schools that you'll get a lot of money. It had better be free or close for you to consider that. In this economy the schools outside the T14 have suffered disproportionately.

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RhymesLikeDimes
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Re: Where should I go T10-14

Postby RhymesLikeDimes » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:49 pm

Didn't realize how stingy Fordham was with financial aid...

mmbt123
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Re: Where should I go T10-14

Postby mmbt123 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:51 pm

megagnarley wrote:
This will help clarify biglaw placement data for you: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=181415

In regards to your situation, it's actually similar to mine. CA native two years out of undergad sitting on a 169/3.65 split and retook December to bump it to a 170. Incidentally, games was my worst section, and I spent all of Nov. drilling to get down to -0/-1 before misdiagramming the last game on Dec and going -6 on the section.

That being said, what once would have been sticker at the lower half of t-14 now looks like $$ at the lower half and at least a shot at schools like NYU off the wait-list.

I would retake 100%. I am even retaking June again after this cycle shakes out due to underperforming, and might even wait a year for more $$ if I break 174.

If you can stomach another year of your job, it's worth it if you think you can score 170+ and submit early.


Thanks, this is very helpful. I may take up your advice; it wouldn't hurt to retake in June to see if that'll help w/ the waitlists. Good luck to you. Having misdiagrammed a game before, I know how frustrating that must've been.

dixiecupdrinking wrote:Pretty rough advice in here. Duke, Northwestern, et al at sticker is way the hell better than Fordham with whatever money you're likely to get there. The admissions standards are just not that much lower at the T25-30 schools that you'll get a lot of money. It had better be free or close for you to consider that. In this economy the schools outside the T14 have suffered disproportionately.
[/quote]

Good to know, appreciate your input.

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megagnarley
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Re: Where should I go T10-14

Postby megagnarley » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:54 pm

mmbt123 wrote:
megagnarley wrote:
This will help clarify biglaw placement data for you: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=181415

In regards to your situation, it's actually similar to mine. CA native two years out of undergad sitting on a 169/3.65 split and retook December to bump it to a 170. Incidentally, games was my worst section, and I spent all of Nov. drilling to get down to -0/-1 before misdiagramming the last game on Dec and going -6 on the section.

That being said, what once would have been sticker at the lower half of t-14 now looks like $$ at the lower half and at least a shot at schools like NYU off the wait-list.

I would retake 100%. I am even retaking June again after this cycle shakes out due to underperforming, and might even wait a year for more $$ if I break 174.

If you can stomach another year of your job, it's worth it if you think you can score 170+ and submit early.


Thanks, this is very helpful. I may take up your advice; it wouldn't hurt to retake in June to see if that'll help w/ the waitlists. Good luck to you. Having misdiagrammed a game before, I know how frustrating that must've been.

dixiecupdrinking wrote:Pretty rough advice in here. Duke, Northwestern, et al at sticker is way the hell better than Fordham with whatever money you're likely to get there. The admissions standards are just not that much lower at the T25-30 schools that you'll get a lot of money. It had better be free or close for you to consider that. In this economy the schools outside the T14 have suffered disproportionately.


Good to know, appreciate your input.[/quote]

Gracias.

And yes, take June with the pressure off and if you crush it and aren't happy with where your cycle ends up just withdraw and apply two months later. That jump from 169 to 170 is as big as it gets.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

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Ramius
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Re: Where should I go T10-14

Postby Ramius » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:33 pm

I apologize for being snarky earlier, but seriously you could be in a much worse position. Would all of these options be infinitely better if they were free? Absolutely. But that's rarely a reality for most people. In your case, if CA is absolutely what you want, taking UCLA or USC with money would probably be a better option (assuming you can't get Boalt or SLS). What this could mean for you is either retaking and trying to increase your LSAT and your chances of good money at the aforementioned schools or maybe even giving yourself a shot at Boalt, where you'd arguably have your best shot at CA. Ultimately, no one on here can absolutely tell you what your best option is, but given where you want to work, going to school at one of the four truly quality CA schools would be your best bet. T14 in CA can be a crapshoot.

Jose Reyes
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Re: Where should I go T10-14

Postby Jose Reyes » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:35 am

RhymesLikeDimes wrote:Fordham wildly outperforms their ranking when it comes to big law. They have a lot of connections in the city.


Retake if you don't want to go 200K in the hole with T10-14.

Otherwise look at Fordham and negotiate your scholly!! You can probably get them up to 30K a year if you dangle your other acceptances/scholly info with them. 30K a year from them will bring your debt to only around 100K over 3 years (factoring in your parents cost of living help), which is much less scary then full tuition at T10-14.

You'll probably get a load of money from the Cali schools too.

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Crowing
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Re: Where should I go T10-14

Postby Crowing » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:49 am

I would say go to NU but that's not listed on your LSN so I assume you're choosing between Mich/Duke/Cornell, in which case the best choice is probably Cornell if you want NYC and Duke overall. But honestly the schools are enough peers that this would be the point at which I'd say just visit them all and pick the one that you personally like the best.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Where should I go T10-14

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:28 pm

Jose Reyes wrote:
RhymesLikeDimes wrote:Fordham wildly outperforms their ranking when it comes to big law. They have a lot of connections in the city.


Retake if you don't want to go 200K in the hole with T10-14.

Otherwise look at Fordham and negotiate your scholly!! You can probably get them up to 30K a year if you dangle your other acceptances/scholly info with them. 30K a year from them will bring your debt to only around 100K over 3 years (factoring in your parents cost of living help), which is much less scary then full tuition at T10-14.

You'll probably get a load of money from the Cali schools too.

This is worth a shot, I guess, but FWIW I got the same amount of money from Fordham as I did from NYU. I do believe they are extremely stingy. I also would temper the enthusiasm for Fordham in that its placement has really been hurt over the last several years.




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