Syracuse for FBI?

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Lawman 2016
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Syracuse for FBI?

Postby Lawman 2016 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:58 pm

Hey guys. Been a reader on here for a few months but first time posting. I'm still waiting to hear back from schools but one of them I applied to is Syracuse. I know that it is pretty expensive but they do offer a National Security and Counter-terrorism program through their law school. My ultimate goal/dream would be to work for the FBI, hopefully as an agent, and going to law school is the avenue I plan on taking to achieve this, over becoming a police officer, and I don't forsee myself joining the military.

I'm curious if anyone knows how influential their national security program is in regards to homeland security placement/goverment jobs. I'm not shooting for Big Law, and I know that SUCOL wouldn't give me a great chance at that regardless if I did. But I'm hoping for a more government related position. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

Just to give you some information, my #'s are 3.63 GPA and a 158 LSAT score. Not top shelf but hopefully I can get some money from a school like Syracuse with them. Both are above the 75th percentile for SUCOL incoming students.

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cinephile
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby cinephile » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:08 pm

Specialty programs are meaningless.

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North
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby North » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:13 pm

The FBI Law Entry is by far the most competitive and over-saturated path to becoming an SA. A JD from Syracuse with a "concentration in national security and counter-terrorism" won't do you any favors when you're competing against T14 grads with good grades and military experience who want the same cool job.

Syracuse's national security and counter-terrorism program is a catchy, impressive-sounding marketing tool. You're being marketed to, dude.

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dingbat
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby dingbat » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:18 pm

I always forget Syracuse has a law school. Do not go there unless you want to live and work in northern New York state

Lawman 2016
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby Lawman 2016 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:21 pm

North wrote:The FBI Law Entry is by far the most competitive and over-saturated path to becoming an SA. A JD from Syracuse with a "concentration in national security and counter-terrorism" won't do you any favors when you're competing against T14 grads with good grades and military experience who want the same cool job.

Syracuse's national security and counter-terrorism program is a catchy, impressive-sounding marketing tool. You're being marketed to, dude.


Thanks for the reply. I have heard though that the school you go to matters a lot less when it comes to FBI hiring.

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bluepenguin
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby bluepenguin » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:24 pm

dingbat wrote:I always forget Syracuse has a law school. Do not go there unless you want to live and work in northern New York state


Hey now, Syracuse is well loved in central NY as well :lol:

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dingbat
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby dingbat » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:25 pm

bluepenguin wrote:
dingbat wrote:I always forget Syracuse has a law school. Do not go there unless you want to live and work in northern New York state


Hey now, Syracuse is well loved in central NY as well :lol:

Central, Northern, whatever. It's basically Alabama light

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BullShitWithBravado
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby BullShitWithBravado » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:40 pm

dingbat wrote:I always forget Syracuse has a law school. Do not go there unless you want to live and work in northern New York state


Syracuse is also super cold and gets like two months worth of sun per year. The only upside is that they have SU basketball.

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twenty
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby twenty » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:50 pm

Lawman 2016 wrote: My ultimate goal/dream would be to work for the FBI, hopefully as an agent, and going to law school is the avenue I plan on taking to achieve this, over becoming a police officer, and I don't forsee myself joining the military.


1) FBI is incredibly hard to get into right now due a) budget b) folks coming back from Afghanistan beating you. Just because they have an open posting doesn't mean they'll take anyone.
2) The most over-saturated path is law. You're probably better off going for your MS in computer science or engineering.
3) Many SAs from other groups (primarily ICE) go over to FBI. You're better off trying to get into DHS HSI or even USMS and going over to FBI after a few years.
4) The secret back-door to FLEO of any sort is to have an existing TS clearance. If you want to confirm this, find the person hires SAs and say, "I have top secret clearance." Then look down at their pants. They should be sporting a massive boner.

You can get TS clearance from a lot of entry level intelligence jobs, which, by the way, is a lateral and less-saturated entry to FBI.

paul554
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby paul554 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:18 pm

The FBI could give two squats about where your law degree is from. That being said, veterans have preference, police officers have preference and other special agents have preference over you. The FBI in general is the most well known federal agency for special agent positions and therefore is overwhelmed with applications. They also don't want to waste their time interviewing you and so forth just to find out that you have a disqualifying background issue. This risk is mitigated by first interviewing those who work in law enforcement and hence should have a clean background.

westie25
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby westie25 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:05 pm

As someone who recently completed the hiring process for the FBI for an internship slot - yes, you go through the actual hiring process just for an internship position - I can give you a little insight. The 1st piece of advice is...don't listen to anyone who hasn't gone through the process (i.e. many people who will respond to you), b/c they really don't know anything. The rest...

- Try to get an internship. They hire from the program. Even with the hiring freeze.
- If you want to go to law school, that's good, but also learn a language. Knowing one of their critical languages (listed on their website) will give you a HUGE advantage.
- Military does receive preference (as in any federal position). Law enforcement...eh. Not really. The comment from someone about not wasting time on background checks isn't accurate. The FBI picks primaries and alternates for each position. What does that mean? They're spending time on extra background checks even though they're only filling one position just in case someone falls through. For two internship spots, they had two primaries and six alternates. Hiring runs the same way - a primary & alternate(s).
- Top secret security clearance is specific to that organization. Indicating that you've rec'vd it before is good, but it's not going to get you the job. Security clearance expires & needs to be renewed. I rec'vd it through the FBI & it did not transfer to DEA. I went through the process again only 3 months after receiving top secret clearance through the FBI.
- Make connections. Talk to recruiters. Build up your résumé - they like relevant experience.
- If you're not 100% set on law school, consider the accounting & computer science routes into the FBI. Of course, learn that critical language w/ these two as well.
- Finally, there's also USMS, DEA, ATF, Secret Service, etc. to consider if your goal is federal law enforcement.

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twenty
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby twenty » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:27 pm

Top secret security clearance is specific to that organization. Indicating that you've rec'vd it before is good, but it's not going to get you the job. Security clearance expires & needs to be renewed. I rec'vd it through the FBI & it did not transfer to DEA. I went through the process again only 3 months after receiving top secret clearance through the FBI.


Everyone I know who has TS clearance, theirs is good for five years, though granted I'm only really familiar with DoD and DoS.

Since security clearance/PIV is a nightmare for HR and recruiting folks, indicating that you've received it before pole-vaults you over the vast numbers of applicants that can't get clearance/haven't gotten it yet. I've seen very-well qualified applicants get dropped because they did too much weed in college or couldn't pass the poly. Putting an HR person's mind at ease gives you a significant leg-up here.

I'll agree with you that it's not going to get you the job if you're way under-qualified, but even cross-agency, pre-clearance is going to absolutely help.

(Not disagreeing with anything you're saying, by the way)

Even with the hiring freeze.


Except this. My agency literally has to go to the secretary/president to get overtime right now, so if an agency can't hire you because of funding, they really can't hire you.

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Br3v
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby Br3v » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:31 pm

cinephile wrote:Specialty programs are meaningless.

westie25
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby westie25 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:00 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:
Even with the hiring freeze.


Except this. My agency literally has to go to the secretary/president to get overtime right now, so if an agency can't hire you because of funding, they really can't hire you.


There are always exceptions. Someone I know who went through the internship program from June-August 2012 was hired. He's now an agent with the FBI. I know that DEA has hired people during the freeze. There are ways, and they are hiring the people they want to hire.

WanderingPondering
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby WanderingPondering » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:03 pm

dingbat wrote:
bluepenguin wrote:
dingbat wrote:I always forget Syracuse has a law school. Do not go there unless you want to live and work in northern New York state


Hey now, Syracuse is well loved in central NY as well :lol:

Central, Northern, whatever. It's basically Alabama light


No, not really.

rvadog
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby rvadog » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:46 pm

North wrote:The FBI Law Entry is by far the most competitive and over-saturated path to becoming an SA. A JD from Syracuse with a "concentration in national security and counter-terrorism" won't do you any favors when you're competing against T14 grads with good grades and military experience who want the same cool job.

Syracuse's national security and counter-terrorism program is a catchy, impressive-sounding marketing tool. You're being marketed to, dude.


Image

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stillwater
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby stillwater » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:16 am

if you do all this, you could probably get a job at the TSA waiving a wand.

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mephistopheles
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby mephistopheles » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:19 am

stillwater wrote:if you do all this, you could probably get a job at the TSA waiving a wand.



*probably*

AllezOM
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby AllezOM » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:13 am

As someone who is currently employed as a LEO in a federal agency (not FBI) I can attest that the vast majority of our new hires fall into 3 categories 1) Prior Military 2) Prior local 3) A combination of both.

One recent hire was a lawyer who got his degree while working as a police officer.

Lawman 2016
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby Lawman 2016 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:37 am

Ok so from the sounds of things the law route isn't the best way to go in regards to becoming an FBI agent. But is the Syracuse National Security program beneficial in anyway whatsoever in regards to placement in the government, or is it the law school equivilant of an art history major?

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North
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby North » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:41 am

Lawman 2016 wrote:Ok so from the sounds of things the law route isn't the best way to go in regards to becoming an FBI agent. But is the Syracuse National Security program beneficial in anyway whatsoever in regards to placement in the government, or is it the law school equivilant of an art history major?

Art history degrees don't cost a quarter of a million dollars.

paul554
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby paul554 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:06 pm

Lawman 2016 wrote:Ok so from the sounds of things the law route isn't the best way to go in regards to becoming an FBI agent. But is the Syracuse National Security program beneficial in anyway whatsoever in regards to placement in the government, or is it the law school equivilant of an art history major?


Doing what in the government? I am former military and federal law enforcement and a law degree will really help my career either in the civilian sector or government, but that is only because it is in ADDITION to my previous work experience and veterans preference.
Most federal agencies that deal with national security issues or law enforcement would generally prefer a well rounded candidate with WE and a degree. I think focusing on relevant internships and such would be far more beneficial then a concentration in anything. Remember, outside of expected service positions you have to compete against status candidates and veterans who will have hiring preference over you. In most cases this means that every single veteran will be at the top of the hiring list and must be considered before you! Some places like the FBI do use the rule of three, as mentioned before, but they are still choosing the top candidates that you probably wont be a part of. There is a lot to consider here, and a lot of ways you can "backdoor" into a federal job that I prefer to not go into, but suffice to say there is no program out there that really "grantees" you a job with the FBI. Heck if you cant pass the PT test then every degree in the world wont really do you a lick of good!

grapefruits
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby grapefruits » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:15 pm

Syracuse is a good choice if you're looking to be unemployed with a graduate degree.

Lawman 2016
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby Lawman 2016 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:40 pm

grapefruits wrote:Syracuse is a good choice if you're looking to be unemployed with a graduate degree.


If the debt load is managable through grants/scholarships, would it still be a terrible choice? 50% full-time employment is not great, but it's better than a lot of the schools ranked ahead of it/non-T14. If it cost less than 50k total hypothetically, would it still be a mistake?

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North
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Re: Syracuse for FBI?

Postby North » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:46 pm

Lawman 2016 wrote:
grapefruits wrote:Syracuse is a good choice if you're looking to be unemployed with a graduate degree.


If the debt load is managable through grants/scholarships, would it still be a terrible choice? 50% full-time employment is not great, but it's better than a lot of the schools ranked ahead of it/non-T14. If it cost less than 50k total hypothetically, would it still be a mistake?

$50k including cost of living?




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