Stanford vs. Duke w/ Full Tuition

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Yukos
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke w/ Full Tuition

Postby Yukos » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:46 pm

Tom Joad wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:
Yukos wrote:I'm risk averse so I'm taking Stanford (I'm in a similar situation). Sure, NYC isn't that hard to get from Duke (if you wanted LA than this would be an open-shut case for Stanford), but having very little pressure during law school is nice -- plus it might open more doors in the long-term (more prestigious firms, going in-house at a network more easily, whatever). Just my two cents though, you can't go wrong with these options :)


Agreed. Even at sticker, I would take Stanford in this situation. The full ride would need to be from CCN before I would start giving it heavy consideration. There's still a quite significant chance of a bad outcome at Duke. Your chances of good results both in the short- and long-term are much higher with Stanford.

Odds are you won't be looking at sticker from Stanford, however.

There really isn't high odds of a bad outcome from Dook. If he misses $160,000 biglaw and gets another legal job then it is a good outcome. Missing biglaw is only a bad outcome if you have so much debt you need biglaw to pay your loans. Removing the debt removes much of the possibility of a bad outcome.


Yeah but he ain't getting entertainment law if he's not doing biglaw in LA or NY.

Not really sure what the 50% of Duke that doesn't do biglaw does though. Small law in Southeast? Small law in their home markets?

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Tom Joad
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke w/ Full Tuition

Postby Tom Joad » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:49 pm

Yukos wrote:Yeah but he ain't getting entertainment law if he's not doing biglaw in LA or NY.

Dream are dead in ITE.
[quote="Yukos"Not really sure what the 50% of Duke that doesn't do biglaw does though. Small law in Southeast? Small law in their home markets?[/quote]
I would imagine most of them have pretty decent jobs for a people who doesn't have $200,000 in loans.

Ti Malice
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke w/ Full Tuition

Postby Ti Malice » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:53 pm

I should have specified that I meant "bad outcome" in the larger sense of winding up in a job and location that the OP finds undesirable. Working in small law for $50K per year somewhere in the South would obviously not be a financial disaster with only COL debt to attend to. It might be pretty far from the life OP was hoping for, though.

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Yukos
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke w/ Full Tuition

Postby Yukos » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:40 pm

Tom Joad wrote:
Yukos wrote:Yeah but he ain't getting entertainment law if he's not doing biglaw in LA or NY.

Dream are dead in ITE.
[quote="Yukos"Not really sure what the 50% of Duke that doesn't do biglaw does though. Small law in Southeast? Small law in their home markets?

I would imagine most of them have pretty decent jobs for a people who doesn't have $200,000 in loans.[/quote]

My 0L mind figured SLS would give OP an actual shot at entertainment law.

nebula666
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke w/ Full Tuition

Postby nebula666 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:41 am

I would go to whichever place you would rather be for three years. Neither is a bad choice.

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wert3813
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke w/ Full Tuition

Postby wert3813 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:27 am

One thing I heard that concerned me is that employers will see a Mordecai and that you will somehow get a boost from that. Assuming they know was it is, if you are below median with a Mordecai they aren't going to think, "Oh, he/she is really smart they nailed their LSAT and undergrad." They are going to think, "Why the hell has this person underperformed what Duke thought they would do?"

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BlaqBella
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke w/ Full Tuition

Postby BlaqBella » Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:08 pm

Is this some kind of joke?

Stanford every day of the week for ten years.

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NinerFan
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke w/ Full Tuition

Postby NinerFan » Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:39 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
bnmillie13 wrote:I love how these forums can go off into the craziest tangents :] I want to thank everyone who took the time to offer advice though; I really appreciate it! Wanted to let you all know that after weighing the pros and cons, I have decided to take the Mordecai and go to Duke. Many of you suggested I wait until I find out what $ I can get from Stanford, but I'll just tell you straight up: my family makes too much for me to get any need-based assistance. I have a younger brother at MIT who had to pay sticker. I definitely understand what many of you have said; going to a school like Stanford genuinely creates a degree of security as you enter the job market, but as hard as I worked to get where I am now, I am confident that at Duke I will be able to work hard enough, and have the resources available, to create opportunities that will make my three years spent there worth while. Maybe it's not going to be at such a high powered firm as a degree from Stanford would place me, but realistically, I'm not aiming to enter a firm and make egregious amounts of money forever as I work my way up towards partnership. I want to get into a solid firm and gain the experience necessary to eventually work in-house in an aspect of the entertainment industry, and Duke is a great institution that I'm pretty sure can get me there. Oh lol, also to chime in on the LSAT vs. LS performance discussion; I'll just say my LSAT score alone didn't define my admission to these institutions, and it's not going to define what I bring to my class once I make it to law school; that's on me, the holistic me (well, maybe it also helps that Duke doesn't publish rank) :] Thanks again though everyone!!! I'm really excited for what's coming next.


Honestly, if your family makes that kind of money maybe you should just get their financial assistance and go to Stanford. The thing about going to Duke is if you end up below median you're going to have an incredibly hard time getting a firm job (your desired outcome). However, the likelihood of you pulling above median grades is higher than the average admit since you got the Mordecai. Either way good luck.


Haha what? My family makes enough so that we don't qualify for need-based aid, but that doesn't mean they have enough to pay 70k+ a year (factoring in COL and all that jazz) for me.

OP already made their decision, but for those saying that "Stanford = better job prospects," I would be surprised if there are full scholly T-14 people out there who failed to find decent employment or failed to do well in law school. Hell, in my class at my T-14 there are several full scholly people, only one of them isn't on LR, and all of them have biglaw or clerkships if they wanted it.

delusional
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke w/ Full Tuition

Postby delusional » Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:13 pm

NinerFan wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
bnmillie13 wrote:I love how these forums can go off into the craziest tangents :] I want to thank everyone who took the time to offer advice though; I really appreciate it! Wanted to let you all know that after weighing the pros and cons, I have decided to take the Mordecai and go to Duke. Many of you suggested I wait until I find out what $ I can get from Stanford, but I'll just tell you straight up: my family makes too much for me to get any need-based assistance. I have a younger brother at MIT who had to pay sticker. I definitely understand what many of you have said; going to a school like Stanford genuinely creates a degree of security as you enter the job market, but as hard as I worked to get where I am now, I am confident that at Duke I will be able to work hard enough, and have the resources available, to create opportunities that will make my three years spent there worth while. Maybe it's not going to be at such a high powered firm as a degree from Stanford would place me, but realistically, I'm not aiming to enter a firm and make egregious amounts of money forever as I work my way up towards partnership. I want to get into a solid firm and gain the experience necessary to eventually work in-house in an aspect of the entertainment industry, and Duke is a great institution that I'm pretty sure can get me there. Oh lol, also to chime in on the LSAT vs. LS performance discussion; I'll just say my LSAT score alone didn't define my admission to these institutions, and it's not going to define what I bring to my class once I make it to law school; that's on me, the holistic me (well, maybe it also helps that Duke doesn't publish rank) :] Thanks again though everyone!!! I'm really excited for what's coming next.


Honestly, if your family makes that kind of money maybe you should just get their financial assistance and go to Stanford. The thing about going to Duke is if you end up below median you're going to have an incredibly hard time getting a firm job (your desired outcome). However, the likelihood of you pulling above median grades is higher than the average admit since you got the Mordecai. Either way good luck.


Haha what? My family makes enough so that we don't qualify for need-based aid, but that doesn't mean they have enough to pay 70k+ a year (factoring in COL and all that jazz) for me.

OP already made their decision, but for those saying that "Stanford = better job prospects," I would be surprised if there are full scholly T-14 people out there who failed to find decent employment or failed to do well in law school. Hell, in my class at my T-14 there are several full scholly people, only one of them isn't on LR, and all of them have biglaw or clerkships if they wanted it.
What you're saying essentially boils down to, people with better numbers do better in law school. Which is true to an extent, but is far from certain.

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ManOfTheMinute
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke w/ Full Tuition

Postby ManOfTheMinute » Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:21 pm

Duke!!!

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suralin
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke w/ Full Tuition

Postby suralin » Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:23 pm

delusional wrote:
NinerFan wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
bnmillie13 wrote:I love how these forums can go off into the craziest tangents :] I want to thank everyone who took the time to offer advice though; I really appreciate it! Wanted to let you all know that after weighing the pros and cons, I have decided to take the Mordecai and go to Duke. Many of you suggested I wait until I find out what $ I can get from Stanford, but I'll just tell you straight up: my family makes too much for me to get any need-based assistance. I have a younger brother at MIT who had to pay sticker. I definitely understand what many of you have said; going to a school like Stanford genuinely creates a degree of security as you enter the job market, but as hard as I worked to get where I am now, I am confident that at Duke I will be able to work hard enough, and have the resources available, to create opportunities that will make my three years spent there worth while. Maybe it's not going to be at such a high powered firm as a degree from Stanford would place me, but realistically, I'm not aiming to enter a firm and make egregious amounts of money forever as I work my way up towards partnership. I want to get into a solid firm and gain the experience necessary to eventually work in-house in an aspect of the entertainment industry, and Duke is a great institution that I'm pretty sure can get me there. Oh lol, also to chime in on the LSAT vs. LS performance discussion; I'll just say my LSAT score alone didn't define my admission to these institutions, and it's not going to define what I bring to my class once I make it to law school; that's on me, the holistic me (well, maybe it also helps that Duke doesn't publish rank) :] Thanks again though everyone!!! I'm really excited for what's coming next.


Honestly, if your family makes that kind of money maybe you should just get their financial assistance and go to Stanford. The thing about going to Duke is if you end up below median you're going to have an incredibly hard time getting a firm job (your desired outcome). However, the likelihood of you pulling above median grades is higher than the average admit since you got the Mordecai. Either way good luck.


Haha what? My family makes enough so that we don't qualify for need-based aid, but that doesn't mean they have enough to pay 70k+ a year (factoring in COL and all that jazz) for me.

OP already made their decision, but for those saying that "Stanford = better job prospects," I would be surprised if there are full scholly T-14 people out there who failed to find decent employment or failed to do well in law school. Hell, in my class at my T-14 there are several full scholly people, only one of them isn't on LR, and all of them have biglaw or clerkships if they wanted it.
What you're saying essentially boils down to, people with better numbers do better in law school. Which is true to an extent, but is far from certain.


+1

Ti Malice
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke w/ Full Tuition

Postby Ti Malice » Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:17 pm

wert3813 wrote:One thing I heard that concerned me is that employers will see a Mordecai and that you will somehow get a boost from that. Assuming they know was it is, if you are below median with a Mordecai they aren't going to think, "Oh, he/she is really smart they nailed their LSAT and undergrad." They are going to think, "Why the hell has this person underperformed what Duke thought they would do?"


Yeah, among many others, that was a ridiculous claim.

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los blancos
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke w/ Full Tuition

Postby los blancos » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:00 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
bnmillie13 wrote:I love how these forums can go off into the craziest tangents :] I want to thank everyone who took the time to offer advice though; I really appreciate it! Wanted to let you all know that after weighing the pros and cons, I have decided to take the Mordecai and go to Duke. Many of you suggested I wait until I find out what $ I can get from Stanford, but I'll just tell you straight up: my family makes too much for me to get any need-based assistance. I have a younger brother at MIT who had to pay sticker. I definitely understand what many of you have said; going to a school like Stanford genuinely creates a degree of security as you enter the job market, but as hard as I worked to get where I am now, I am confident that at Duke I will be able to work hard enough, and have the resources available, to create opportunities that will make my three years spent there worth while. Maybe it's not going to be at such a high powered firm as a degree from Stanford would place me, but realistically, I'm not aiming to enter a firm and make egregious amounts of money forever as I work my way up towards partnership. I want to get into a solid firm and gain the experience necessary to eventually work in-house in an aspect of the entertainment industry, and Duke is a great institution that I'm pretty sure can get me there. Oh lol, also to chime in on the LSAT vs. LS performance discussion; I'll just say my LSAT score alone didn't define my admission to these institutions, and it's not going to define what I bring to my class once I make it to law school; that's on me, the holistic me (well, maybe it also helps that Duke doesn't publish rank) :] Thanks again though everyone!!! I'm really excited for what's coming next.


Honestly, if your family makes that kind of money maybe you should just get their financial assistance and go to Stanford. The thing about going to Duke is if you end up below median you're going to have an incredibly hard time getting a firm job (your desired outcome). However, the likelihood of you pulling above median grades is higher than the average admit since you got the Mordecai. Either way good luck.


I would dispute "incredibly" hard time getting a NYC firm job from Duke with below median grades (though obviously if you're bottom 1/4, that might be pushing it). I'm a 3L at Duke and that's not really my impression, but I'm also not one of the NYC biglawl kids.

No one ITT mentioned that OP is URM. Even if she doesn't perform well, I would think that + IP background would leave her in a fairly nice position.

(I personally would have chosen Stanford. Not because I dislike Duke - this school has given me some amazing opportunities and law school worked out about as well for me as it possibly could have. But I wouldn't have passed up SLS, as it and Berkeley were the two highest schools on my list. FWIW I didn't pay sticker at Duke - I don't think I was willing to pay sticker anywhere lower than CCN. But I certainly would have paid sticker at SLS.)



OP: Best of luck, and enjoy Duke. It really has been a fantastic experience for me. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

UNC22
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke w/ Full Tuition

Postby UNC22 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:02 pm

It is a really hard choice, but I would say go with Duke for the ability to choose a job regardless of law school debt. I am a Mordecai at Duke and was debating between Harvard and here. You do need to make good grades at Duke, but after my first semester I am very happy with my own grades. Last year I had a similar thread where everyone screamed about how LSAT and GPA are not the best method of reification etc so forth, but whatever the merits to that argument I can honestly say if hard work and intelligence got you these offers then similar habits should pay off in law school. Good luck and feel free to message me any questions you may have.

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beachbum
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke w/ Full Tuition

Postby beachbum » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:08 pm

UNC22 wrote:It is a really hard choice, but I would say go with Duke for the ability to choose a job regardless of law school debt. I am a Mordecai at Duke and was debating between Harvard and here. You do need to make good grades at Duke, but after my first semester I am very happy with my own grades. Last year I had a similar thread where everyone screamed about how LSAT and GPA are not the best method of reification etc so forth, but whatever the merits to that argument I can honestly say if hard work and intelligence got you these offers then similar habits should pay off in law school. Good luck and feel free to message me any questions you may have.


I think that ship may have already sailed.

UNC22
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke w/ Full Tuition

Postby UNC22 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:43 pm

Misread the date good catch lol




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