Syracuse (25k) v. Albany (32k) Forum

[meepmeep17]

Hey TLS,

So I have been accepted to both Syracuse ($25K year/ 2.8 GPA stipulation) and Albany ($32k year/ 3.0 GPA stipulation)... I have family in both sections of NY and even though I currently live in the South I have no strong desire to stay in the South (I was rejected from UGA, and no desire to go to GA State).

I need some advice. I am leaning more towards Syracuse bc even with a higher tuition rate upfront it has the option of letting me get my Masters in Public Administration (FOR FREE) and in 3 years. Albany does not have this sweet of a deal, and would instead take me 4 years to complete my Masters and JD at the same time as well as cost me more in tuition.

I have visited Albany and loved the campus and the proximity to the state capital. I truly feel like Albany has an advantage with internships within the government sector - and that is the type of law that I am currently most interested in (I am aware that I may change my mind once I am in school). I have not been to Syracuse yet, but plan on going for visitors day in April (before the seat deposit is due).

So here is my laundry list of questions, I would really appreciate some advice.
1. Is Syracuse worth the extra $$$, I do plan on trying to negotiate with the Albany offer next week to see if they will increase the amount.
2. Has anyone done the MPA/JD program at Syracuse, and would they recommend it?
3. I am not positive if I want to stay in NY after graduation, which is why I like that Syracuse is a national law school. I have lived/worked in DC before on the Hill and would really like to go back. Would Syracuse be a better fit?

Sorry for typos and spelling mistakes doing this on my phone.

Any advice would be really appreciated, thank you TLS'ers!

[BigZuck]

Hey TLS,

So I have been accepted to both Syracuse ($25K year/ 2.8 GPA stipulation) and Albany ($32k year/ 3.0 GPA stipulation)... I have family in both sections of NY and even though I currently live in the South I have no strong desire to stay in the South (I was rejected from UGA, and no desire to go to GA State).

I need some advice. I am leaning more towards Syracuse bc even with a higher tuition rate upfront it has the option of letting me get my Masters in Public Administration (FOR FREE) and in 3 years. Albany does not have this sweet of a deal, and would instead take me 4 years to complete my Masters and JD at the same time as well as cost me more in tuition.

I have visited Albany and loved the campus and the proximity to the state capital. I truly feel like Albany has an advantage with internships within the government sector - and that is the type of law that I am currently most interested in (I am aware that I may change my mind once I am in school). I have not been to Syracuse yet, but plan on going for visitors day in April (before the seat deposit is due).

So here is my laundry list of questions, I would really appreciate some advice.
1. Is Syracuse worth the extra $$$, I do plan on trying to negotiate with the Albany offer next week to see if they will increase the amount.
2. Has anyone done the MPA/JD program at Syracuse, and would they recommend it?
3. I am not positive if I want to stay in NY after graduation, which is why I like that Syracuse is a national law school. I have lived/worked in DC before on the Hill and would really like to go back. Would Syracuse be a better fit?

Sorry for typos and spelling mistakes doing this on my phone.

Any advice would be really appreciated, thank you TLS'ers!

If you want a national school located in upstate New York, you need to retake the LSAT and go to Cornell.

You need to do some research on employment statistics (law school transparency is a great start) to see if these schools will get you where you want to go career wise and read up on the curves of these schools (Wikipedia has a list of many schools curves) to see how likely it is that you will lose your scholarship. If it is highly unlikely you need to still need to figure out if the schools are worth that kind of investment in money and time.

[meepmeep17]

Hey TLS,

So I have been accepted to both Syracuse ($25K year/ 2.8 GPA stipulation) and Albany ($32k year/ 3.0 GPA stipulation)... I have family in both sections of NY and even though I currently live in the South I have no strong desire to stay in the South (I was rejected from UGA, and no desire to go to GA State).

I need some advice. I am leaning more towards Syracuse bc even with a higher tuition rate upfront it has the option of letting me get my Masters in Public Administration (FOR FREE) and in 3 years. Albany does not have this sweet of a deal, and would instead take me 4 years to complete my Masters and JD at the same time as well as cost me more in tuition.

I have visited Albany and loved the campus and the proximity to the state capital. I truly feel like Albany has an advantage with internships within the government sector - and that is the type of law that I am currently most interested in (I am aware that I may change my mind once I am in school). I have not been to Syracuse yet, but plan on going for visitors day in April (before the seat deposit is due).

So here is my laundry list of questions, I would really appreciate some advice.
1. Is Syracuse worth the extra $$$, I do plan on trying to negotiate with the Albany offer next week to see if they will increase the amount.
2. Has anyone done the MPA/JD program at Syracuse, and would they recommend it?
3. I am not positive if I want to stay in NY after graduation, which is why I like that Syracuse is a national law school. I have lived/worked in DC before on the Hill and would really like to go back. Would Syracuse be a better fit?

Sorry for typos and spelling mistakes doing this on my phone.

Any advice would be really appreciated, thank you TLS'ers!

If you want a national school located in upstate New York, you need to retake the LSAT and go to Cornell.

You need to do some research on employment statistics (law school transparency is a great start) to see if these schools will get you where you want to go career wise and read up on the curves of these schools (Wikipedia has a list of many schools curves) to see how likely it is that you will lose your scholarship. If it is highly unlikely you need to still need to figure out if the schools are worth that kind of investment in money and time.

Thank you for the advice I have been looking around to see if people lose their scholarships after their 1L but haven't found anything concrete. I'll check out wikipedia again and see if I can come up with anything.

[BigZuck]

Assume you will end up right at the middle of the class. This http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ ... GPA_curves

says if you are at median you will lose your scholarship to Albany and should keep it at Syracuse. Might be outdated though so I would contact the schools directly if this info is not readily available on their website. If they aren't forthcoming, cross that school off your list. It's a scam trying to steal your money.

[meepmeep17]

Assume you will end up right at the middle of the class. This http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ ... GPA_curves

says if you are at median you will lose your scholarship to Albany and should keep it at Syracuse. Might be outdated though so I would contact the schools directly if this info is not readily available on their website. If they aren't forthcoming, cross that school off your list. It's a scam trying to steal your money.

Ya I just found it online... I am going to call them when I get off work at 4 to find out more about their curve...

[timbs4339]

Neither of these schools are national.

What is the total COA (for all three or four years) for both schools? Can you negotiate to get the stips removed or moved to "good standing?"

[bluepenguin]

Wouldn't recommend paying tuition to go to Syracuse, but if you must make choose between these two the obvious answer is to get the Syracuse MPA (heck, maybe forget the JD). That way you may still be employable if you can't get a legal job.

[dirtrida2]

Why not Suny Buffalo?

20k tuition, you might be able to get a 5k scholly?

Haven't done any research on Albany or Syracuse, not sure how much a dent your scholarships put into their tuition costs.

[jkpolk]

I didn't know either of these schools even had law schools.

[BlueDiamond]

Neither of these is a good option given the cost. Also, I have a friend at Syracuse who said they expel the bottom 10-20% of their class after 1L with no option to recoup what you spent for that first year. Whether or not this is true I never checked because I didn't really care. But I'd check into it before going there if I were you.

Edit: seems correct from their site unless they increased class size... Class of 2015 Profile says Class Size: 245 and Employment Survey for the Class of 2011 says Number of graduates in class: 193.. so they either decided to add about 50 seats between 2011 and 2012/13 or 50ish people dropped out/were kicked out

[ndirish2010]

Buffalo.

[justonemoregame]

Neither of these is a good option given the cost. Also, I have a friend at Syracuse who said they expel the bottom 10-20% of their class after 1L with no option to recoup what you spent for that first year. Whether or not this is true I never checked because I didn't really care. But I'd check into it before going there if I were you.

Edit: seems correct from their site unless they increased class size... Class of 2015 Profile says Class Size: 245 and Employment Survey for the Class of 2011 says Number of graduates in class: 193.. so they either decided to add about 50 seats between 2011 and 2012/13 or 50ish people dropped out/were kicked out

Why wouldn't Syracuse want to keep taking their money? I find this strategy brutally ethical.

Also LS classes don't stay the same from year to year lulz, especially lately

[hephaestus]

If you have family you can live with I guess Albany. But really, you need to retake. The upstate market isnt exactly flourishing and neither school is worth relocating from the south for.

[timbs4339]

Neither of these is a good option given the cost. Also, I have a friend at Syracuse who said they expel the bottom 10-20% of their class after 1L with no option to recoup what you spent for that first year. Whether or not this is true I never checked because I didn't really care. But I'd check into it before going there if I were you.

Edit: seems correct from their site unless they increased class size... Class of 2015 Profile says Class Size: 245 and Employment Survey for the Class of 2011 says Number of graduates in class: 193.. so they either decided to add about 50 seats between 2011 and 2012/13 or 50ish people dropped out/were kicked out

Why wouldn't Syracuse want to keep taking their money? I find this strategy brutally ethical.

Also LS classes don't stay the same from year to year lulz, especially lately

Maintain high bar passage rates?

[BlueDiamond]

Neither of these is a good option given the cost. Also, I have a friend at Syracuse who said they expel the bottom 10-20% of their class after 1L with no option to recoup what you spent for that first year. Whether or not this is true I never checked because I didn't really care. But I'd check into it before going there if I were you.

Edit: seems correct from their site unless they increased class size... Class of 2015 Profile says Class Size: 245 and Employment Survey for the Class of 2011 says Number of graduates in class: 193.. so they either decided to add about 50 seats between 2011 and 2012/13 or 50ish people dropped out/were kicked out

Why wouldn't Syracuse want to keep taking their money? I find this strategy brutally ethical.

Also LS classes don't stay the same from year to year lulz, especially lately

Maintain high bar passage rates?

Yes, the reasoning that I was told was to maintain higher bar passage rates and to keep employment figures higher - which, of course, you need to pass the bar to be a lawyer so in a way they somewhat go hand-in-hand. Also, outside of upstate NY neither of these degrees carries much weight and as a poster above said the NY legal market is not exactly thriving. With the market being shit, Cornell grads (and others) are now searching for the jobs at Bond, Harris Beach, Harter Secrest, Phillips Lytle, etc. and they are getting them over kids from these schools. If you want to be in Upstate NY and cant get into the T14 or a somewhat comparable school, you're best bet is Buffalo - not because they place any better than Syracuse or Albany, but because its a SUNY and you will pay considerably less so long as you can establish in-state status.

[WhiteyCakes]

Albany is a dump

[grapefruits]

Albany is a dump

Seconded. Syracuse is a bigger dump. No one should ever go to either school. You're only fooling yourself. Stop before you end up with $150k of non-dischargeable debt. Seriously. The only good advice is retake.

FWIW Syracuse graduated Joe Biden. He was also caught plagiarizing. lol.

[meepmeep17]

Thank you everyone for the advice. Retaking is NOT an option, and even if I were to retake I have no desire to go to Cornell. I am still waiting to hear back from Penn State and American, but I doubt either of those schools will give me money and I will probably be waitlisted. I am leaning towards Syracuse, and I think after I visit I'll be able to finally put this decision to rest and decide.

Thanks again!

[cinephile]

Thank you everyone for the advice. Retaking is NOT an option, and even if I were to retake I have no desire to go to Cornell. I am still waiting to hear back from Penn State and American, but I doubt either of those schools will give me money and I will probably be waitlisted. I am leaning towards Syracuse, and I think after I visit I'll be able to finally put this decision to rest and decide.

Thanks again!

American is a bad choice, more money or not.

Why is a retake not an option?

[meepmeep17]

Thank you everyone for the advice. Retaking is NOT an option, and even if I were to retake I have no desire to go to Cornell. I am still waiting to hear back from Penn State and American, but I doubt either of those schools will give me money and I will probably be waitlisted. I am leaning towards Syracuse, and I think after I visit I'll be able to finally put this decision to rest and decide.

Thanks again!

American is a bad choice, more money or not.

Why is a retake not an option?

Money to retake, not to mention the test is next month and I wouldn't have adequate time to prepare. I took the test in Feb 2012 cold... BIG mistake. After graduation I decided to retake, and I did so in Oct and raised my score 15 points. That was after 6 months of every day practicing and taking prep tests frequently. TBH, I am not up for it, I honestly believe the score I got in October is probably the best I will ever get. And I am okay with that because it was the most I have ever studied for a single test.

I would be proud to graduate from either Albany or Syracuse. I probably should have noted that in my original post. I wasn't looking for advice on retaking and upping my score and changing my options. I am proud of my options and will choose accordingly.

[BlueDiamond]

Thank you everyone for the advice. Retaking is NOT an option, and even if I were to retake I have no desire to go to Cornell. I am still waiting to hear back from Penn State and American, but I doubt either of those schools will give me money and I will probably be waitlisted. I am leaning towards Syracuse, and I think after I visit I'll be able to finally put this decision to rest and decide.

Thanks again!

American is a bad choice, more money or not.

Why is a retake not an option?

Money to retake, not to mention the test is next month and I wouldn't have adequate time to prepare. I took the test in Feb 2012 cold... BIG mistake. After graduation I decided to retake, and I did so in Oct and raised my score 15 points. That was after 6 months of every day practicing and taking prep tests frequently. TBH, I am not up for it, I honestly believe the score I got in October is probably the best I will ever get. And I am okay with that because it was the most I have ever studied for a single test.

I would be proud to graduate from either Albany or Syracuse. I probably should have noted that in my original post. I wasn't looking for advice on retaking and upping my score and changing my options. I am proud of my options and will choose accordingly.

Spend the couple hundred bucks it will cost to retake in order to save yourself thousands.

I'm very confused on why you initially asked for advice to begin with. Syracuse is in no way a national school. Being from Upstate NY I can understand why people from the area believe that seeing as everyone in Central NY seems to be in love with Syracuse basketball. However, the name does not carry much weight outside of Upstate NY. 25K a year is nice, but nothing when you look at their estimated cost of attendance per year at $64,300. You have a 2.8 stipulation, which is probably median or a little below? So, finish below the 60th(ish) percentile and you are looking at a second and third year at FULL COST. The administration forces out the bottom 20% of the class meaning you could be $39,300 in debt not including loan interest in the hole without even getting a JD. You would be paying 117Kish without accounting for cost of living and interest even if you finished in the top 60%. Both of these options do not include the loss of possible income over this time of 1-3 years. Kids in the top 10 of the class at Syracuse (not top 10%, but top 10 people) are having trouble finding jobs (I know one personally who, due to being on law review, knows many others who are in the top echelon of students and THERE ARE NO JOBS). YOU ARE MAKING A BAD DECISION. YOU SHOULD TAKE SOME TIME AND RETHINK YOUR DECISION. If you want to go to law school, you should retake the LSAT.

There is no problem with taking pride in graduating from Syracuse or Albany - honestly, they are probably both good schools and provide an education that you would find in many schools that US News ranks above them. In fact, they may even better prepare you since both teach most of their courses using NY law rather than trying to pass themselves off as national schools and teaching straight theory. HOWEVER, my guess is that your school pride will quickly fade away if you are expelled for being in the bottom 20% or if you are jobless with 120K of non-dischargeable debt.

I have done all I can.

An argument against Albany would look similar.

[Ti Malice]

There are only two intelligent decisions you can make here: Retake, or don't go to law school.

[cinephile]

Would you be proud to be jobless and in debt? Put law school off for a year and retake.

[BerkeleyBear]

"Money to retake, not to mention the test is next month and I wouldn't have adequate time to prepare. I took the test in Feb 2012 cold... BIG mistake. After graduation I decided to retake, and I did so in Oct and raised my score 15 points. That was after 6 months of every day practicing and taking prep tests frequently. TBH, I am not up for it, I honestly believe the score I got in October is probably the best I will ever get. And I am okay with that because it was the most I have ever studied for a single test.

I would be proud to graduate from either Albany or Syracuse. I probably should have noted that in my original post. I wasn't looking for advice on retaking and upping my score and changing my options. I am proud of my options and will choose accordingly."

This isn't about money as much as it is about effort. And if money is the only factor hindering you retaking the LSAT, then you are being incredibly shortsighted. I'm sure waiting another year and putting in a bunch of more effort does not sound appealing to you. Yet, even if you would be "proud" to graduate from those schools, this isn't about your pride. This is about you making a rational decision and putting yourself in the best possible position. Even if you don't want to go to Cornell and want to really go to Syracuse or Albany, you can always get yourself more money.

I really, really hope you choose to retake. You CAN improve your score.

[BullShitWithBravado]

Schools include stipulations with their scholarships for a reason: They give out scholarships to entice students to attend but include stipulations with those scholarships so that a substantial number of students lose their scholarships after 1L year. The schools keep the money and the students who lose their scholarships not only end up having to pay more for law school than they anticipated, but end up having grades that are too mediocre to transfer out or to give them a decent shot at getting a job.

There is not way to predict how you will do in law school because of the fact that everything is curved. Also, many schools section stack (meaning that they put all of the scholarship students in the same sections on purpose), which results in a substantial number of students losing their scholarship. Not putting you down, but there is a very real chance that you will lose your scholarship if you attend either of these schools.

So to answer your question, go to Syracuse (if you don't mind losing your scholarship and having dismal employment prospects).