Besides the fact that you're a fan, evidence that UCLA is better than USC? Last year USC was better at getting their grads desirable jobs and lawyer jobs in general, more students reported a salary, it is cheaper, and it seems like their students are happier (although that is anecdotal obviously). UCLA is located in Westwood though, so that's cool.bruinfan10 wrote:don't take U$C. UCLA's a better school and even they're struggling to place kids in decent jobs. I went with one of Boalt's peer schools because Boalt wouldn't match any of my scholarships, and there are days I still regret it. If you can afford it, you're minimizing your risk of unemployment tremendously, and if you figure out eventually that you want to ditch the LA scene, you'll be glad you went to Cal.
Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt Forum
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
As others have said, do not let the politics of the student body enter into your decision-making. The student body at any law school worth attending is going to be somewhere between predominantly liberal to almost entirely liberal.
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
except maybe in the South but of course he wouldn't care about that.Ti Malice wrote:As others have said, do not let the politics of the student body enter into your decision-making. The student body at any law school worth attending is going to be somewhere between predominantly liberal to almost entirely liberal.
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
I appreciate the insight, even if the truth may not be I what I "wanted" to hearzman wrote:jrfreed wrote:Hi all-
I'm a newbie to the TLS forums, but I have seen a lot of valuable feedback here and would like to ask for some advice. I am originally from CA (LA), and would really love to move back (and eventually practice there). I have been really lucky this admissions cycle, and now have Boalt, UCLA, and USC as my CA options. I'm also in at Duke, Georgetown, and Cornell, all of which I really like and am honored to have been accepted to. I'm still waiting to hear back from a few others. I'm just not sure if it would be worth it to give up the ability to make CA connections and "settle down" a bit, though? Thankfully, cost of school will not be an issue in my decision, and as of now I have not received any scholarship offers anyways.
I have a few specific questions..
1. Competition: I have heard that competition at UCLA is really tough, and slightly lessened at USC. Given Boalt's grading system, is it really less competitive as compared to the other two?
2. I lean towards the libertarian right on the political spectrum. In your experience, just how liberal are Boalt and UCLA? Would I feel really out of place? This wouldn't be a deal killer, but it would be nice if I didn't feel as though people would like to burn me at the stake
To its credit, USC seems to be more moderate (and, from what I have seen, benefits from both a really effective private administration and enthusiastic alumni base). If it weren't for the USNWR rankings, that would be an easier decision. I'd like to hear your thoughts.
3. How do the three CA schools fare in placement in the LA market?
Thanks so much in advance for your guidance!
"USC seems to be more moderate" sorry but no. most of the faculty are all pro-democrat party Berkeley types. the student body at USC law school is about the same. but that's not a bad thing.
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
this.BigZuck wrote:Besides the fact that you're a fan, evidence that UCLA is better than USC? Last year USC was better at getting their grads desirable jobs and lawyer jobs in general, more students reported a salary, it is cheaper, and it seems like their students are happier (although that is anecdotal obviously). UCLA is located in Westwood though, so that's cool.bruinfan10 wrote:don't take U$C. UCLA's a better school and even they're struggling to place kids in decent jobs. I went with one of Boalt's peer schools because Boalt wouldn't match any of my scholarships, and there are days I still regret it. If you can afford it, you're minimizing your risk of unemployment tremendously, and if you figure out eventually that you want to ditch the LA scene, you'll be glad you went to Cal.
i had this decision last year and chose usc. i always liked ucla more, to be honest, but after looking at the stats and visiting the campuses, i went with usc and i am definitely not regretting it. usc has done a better job of insulating its students from the shitfest that is the current economy; the smaller class size and alumni network have resulted in big law placement numbers that have outstripped ucla and other higher ranked schools on us news.
westwood IS definitely nicer, though. but i'll have plenty of time to spend around there when i start working in the area.
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
At this point, I would like to pursue private practice at a firm, and have very, very little interest in government work. With that said, the big, midsize, and smaller firms all have some distinctive appeal, respectively. Thank you for the great web links on placement statistics.. they will definitely play a major role my decision!Lasers wrote:OP, what are your career goals?
if it's big law, like i said before, i think usc is the choice here. while berkeley provides more opportunities and better placement in big law, that advantage, when compared to the massive additional cost, is not proportionate.
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/06/20/law ... r-schools/
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 0102195743
as you'll see in the links above, usc does a lot better than it's us news rankings would indicate. i think this is largely due to two reasons: it's smaller class size (LA big law firms for example have typically taken an almost equal amount of usc and ucla students, but since usc has 100 students fewer in its class, the comparative advantage goes to usc) and it's very strong alumni network. note, it is still important to consider that students at schools like berkeley (and up) self-select into careers outside of big law, so the stats above don't tell the entire story.
with that said, the key question here: is the better big law placement worth $100,000+?
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
Thanks for the good points, Dmini. And yes, if I do go with USC, I think that the scholarship offer would probably be beneficial to my own sense of self-worth, too. The alumni base is a very appealing factor, especially as I have seen it firsthand. Boalt could be great for that, too; I simply don't know as many of them...Dmini7 wrote:I know he said money is not an issue, but I feel like whoevers money you are using, would really appreciate it if you considered the benefits of going to a school and having 105k less debt(or in this case 105k more in your pocket). USC places extremely well in big law, especially in the LA market, and their alumni base is amazing. I would personally choose USC. Even if money is not an option, I think USC's offer and placement mean you have more flexibility. Also, maybe USC's offer could convince Boalt to give you some money.CalAlumni wrote:Since money is not a question, Boalt no doubt!
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
Thank you for the painfully honest advice, and point taken as to the extra-regional opportunities presented by Boalt. With that said (whether my opinion is right or wrong) I personally do consider UCLA and USC to be peer schools.bruinfan10 wrote:don't take U$C. UCLA's a better school and even they're struggling to place kids in decent jobs. I went with one of Boalt's peer schools because Boalt wouldn't match any of my scholarships, and there are days I still regret it. If you can afford it, you're minimizing your risk of unemployment tremendously, and if you figure out eventually that you want to ditch the LA scene, you'll be glad you went to Cal.
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
Ok, your turn. Evidence that UVA and Duke are more conservative than any top law schools?zman wrote:except maybe in the South but of course he wouldn't care about that.Ti Malice wrote:As others have said, do not let the politics of the student body enter into your decision-making. The student body at any law school worth attending is going to be somewhere between predominantly liberal to almost entirely liberal.
As for the OP, considering the richness and generosity of your benefactors I can't see why you would pick USC over Boalt. Boalt is objectively better and on another level.
Edited for: mistyped.
Last edited by BigZuck on Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
As per my recent posts.. only USC has offered any funds thus far. I will say that the California state control over the UC's (as manifested by the funding transfers you mention) does scare me a little bit. I know that both UCLA Law and Berkeley Law are almost autonomous and under talented leadership, but the fact that the "less-than-efficient" state gov't can do that kind of thing isn't exactly comforting, IMHO. Of course, my fears could be baseless, as they often are...zman wrote:We don't know yet. IF he was good enough to be accepted to Boalt he should be able to get money from USC and UCLA. He/she should wait on that. Boalt doesn't give much if anything I hear, they use their law school revenue to fund their cheaper in-state tuition to undergrads.CalAlumni wrote:Since money is not a question, Boalt no doubt!
But you're right, Boalt is the clear answer at equal money.
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
BigZuck wrote:Besides the fact that you're a fan, evidence that UCLA is better than USC? Last year USC was better at getting their grads desirable jobs and lawyer jobs in general, more students reported a salary, it is cheaper, and it seems like their students are happier (although that is anecdotal obviously). UCLA is located in Westwood though, so that's cool.bruinfan10 wrote:don't take U$C. UCLA's a better school and even they're struggling to place kids in decent jobs. I went with one of Boalt's peer schools because Boalt wouldn't match any of my scholarships, and there are days I still regret it. If you can afford it, you're minimizing your risk of unemployment tremendously, and if you figure out eventually that you want to ditch the LA scene, you'll be glad you went to Cal.
Good points. I have a lot of respect for both UCLA and USC, but the overall claims of superiority from both sides don't seem to pan out, at least statistically.
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
How is USC not superior, statistically speaking?jrfreed wrote:BigZuck wrote:Besides the fact that you're a fan, evidence that UCLA is better than USC? Last year USC was better at getting their grads desirable jobs and lawyer jobs in general, more students reported a salary, it is cheaper, and it seems like their students are happier (although that is anecdotal obviously). UCLA is located in Westwood though, so that's cool.bruinfan10 wrote:don't take U$C. UCLA's a better school and even they're struggling to place kids in decent jobs. I went with one of Boalt's peer schools because Boalt wouldn't match any of my scholarships, and there are days I still regret it. If you can afford it, you're minimizing your risk of unemployment tremendously, and if you figure out eventually that you want to ditch the LA scene, you'll be glad you went to Cal.
Good points. I have a lot of respect for both UCLA and USC, but the overall claims of superiority from both sides don't seem to pan out, at least statistically.
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
Ti Malice wrote:As others have said, do not let the politics of the student body enter into your decision-making. The student body at any law school worth attending is going to be somewhere between predominantly liberal to almost entirely liberal.
Point taken, and I am trying to remove the oft-anecdotal associations from my criteria.
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
Ironically, I actually left LA to attend an elite Southern school for undergrad, and found very little difference in the way of political mindset (of course, that could just be my university, which is very popular among Northeasterners)zman wrote:except maybe in the South but of course he wouldn't care about that.Ti Malice wrote:As others have said, do not let the politics of the student body enter into your decision-making. The student body at any law school worth attending is going to be somewhere between predominantly liberal to almost entirely liberal.
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
Emory?jrfreed wrote:Ironically, I actually left LA to attend an elite Southern school for undergrad, and found very little difference in the way of political mindset (of course, that could just be my university, which is very popular among Northeasterners)zman wrote:except maybe in the South but of course he wouldn't care about that.Ti Malice wrote:As others have said, do not let the politics of the student body enter into your decision-making. The student body at any law school worth attending is going to be somewhere between predominantly liberal to almost entirely liberal.
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
I'm a bit confused by your wording here. Just to clarify, which are you in favor of?BigZuck wrote:Ok, your turn. Evidence that UVA and Duke are more conservative than any top law schools?zman wrote:except maybe in the South but of course he wouldn't care about that.Ti Malice wrote:As others have said, do not let the politics of the student body enter into your decision-making. The student body at any law school worth attending is going to be somewhere between predominantly liberal to almost entirely liberal.
As for the OP, considering the richness and generosity of your benefactors I can't see why you would pick Boalt over USC. Boalt is objectively better and on another level.
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
Sorry, I meant USC over Boalt. I would probably take USC if you had to pay for it, Boalt if your parents are. Boalt is objectively better.
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
I should have been more clear when I said the south I mean lower ranked schools where their grads only work in the south(for the most part). UVA and duke are national schools.BigZuck wrote:Ok, your turn. Evidence that UVA and Duke are more conservative than any top law schools?zman wrote:except maybe in the South but of course he wouldn't care about that.Ti Malice wrote:As others have said, do not let the politics of the student body enter into your decision-making. The student body at any law school worth attending is going to be somewhere between predominantly liberal to almost entirely liberal.
As for the OP, considering the richness and generosity of your benefactors I can't see why you would pick USC over Boalt. Boalt is objectively better and on another level.
Edited for: mistyped.
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
Quite frankly, I am not intimately familiar with all the stats, and I am sure that a legitimate claim could be made for both. I'm just basing that on what I have read/ heard, with the winner often switching back and forth ping-pong style. I suppose I should have said that there isn't a giant gulf between two great schools.BigZuck wrote:How is USC not superior, statistically speaking?jrfreed wrote:BigZuck wrote:Besides the fact that you're a fan, evidence that UCLA is better than USC? Last year USC was better at getting their grads desirable jobs and lawyer jobs in general, more students reported a salary, it is cheaper, and it seems like their students are happier (although that is anecdotal obviously). UCLA is located in Westwood though, so that's cool.bruinfan10 wrote:don't take U$C. UCLA's a better school and even they're struggling to place kids in decent jobs. I went with one of Boalt's peer schools because Boalt wouldn't match any of my scholarships, and there are days I still regret it. If you can afford it, you're minimizing your risk of unemployment tremendously, and if you figure out eventually that you want to ditch the LA scene, you'll be glad you went to Cal.
Good points. I have a lot of respect for both UCLA and USC, but the overall claims of superiority from both sides don't seem to pan out, at least statistically.
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
UCLA placed a higher percentage into NLJ 250 firms in 2005 and 2010, and it's not like they were routed in the other years.BigZuck wrote:How is USC not superior, statistically speaking?jrfreed wrote:BigZuck wrote:Besides the fact that you're a fan, evidence that UCLA is better than USC? Last year USC was better at getting their grads desirable jobs and lawyer jobs in general, more students reported a salary, it is cheaper, and it seems like their students are happier (although that is anecdotal obviously). UCLA is located in Westwood though, so that's cool.bruinfan10 wrote:don't take U$C. UCLA's a better school and even they're struggling to place kids in decent jobs. I went with one of Boalt's peer schools because Boalt wouldn't match any of my scholarships, and there are days I still regret it. If you can afford it, you're minimizing your risk of unemployment tremendously, and if you figure out eventually that you want to ditch the LA scene, you'll be glad you went to Cal.
Good points. I have a lot of respect for both UCLA and USC, but the overall claims of superiority from both sides don't seem to pan out, at least statistically.
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
Thanks for the guidance... it is really helpful to hear from someone who faced the same decision!Lasers wrote:this.BigZuck wrote:Besides the fact that you're a fan, evidence that UCLA is better than USC? Last year USC was better at getting their grads desirable jobs and lawyer jobs in general, more students reported a salary, it is cheaper, and it seems like their students are happier (although that is anecdotal obviously). UCLA is located in Westwood though, so that's cool.bruinfan10 wrote:don't take U$C. UCLA's a better school and even they're struggling to place kids in decent jobs. I went with one of Boalt's peer schools because Boalt wouldn't match any of my scholarships, and there are days I still regret it. If you can afford it, you're minimizing your risk of unemployment tremendously, and if you figure out eventually that you want to ditch the LA scene, you'll be glad you went to Cal.
i had this decision last year and chose usc. i always liked ucla more, to be honest, but after looking at the stats and visiting the campuses, i went with usc and i am definitely not regretting it. usc has done a better job of insulating its students from the shitfest that is the current economy; the smaller class size and alumni network have resulted in big law placement numbers that have outstripped ucla and other higher ranked schools on us news.
westwood IS definitely nicer, though. but i'll have plenty of time to spend around there when i start working in the area.
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
Got it- thanks for the clarification, and point taken.BigZuck wrote:Sorry, I meant USC over Boalt. I would probably take USC if you had to pay for it, Boalt if your parents are. Boalt is objectively better.
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
Equal money go UCLA over USC(For the most part) but big law firms don't appear to have nearly as much respect for UCLA as they do for those ranked in the top 14 even though UCLA has better GPA's then quite a few of them. last year UCLA had a horrible year. only 23% got big law.
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
Bingo. I was trying to follow the anonymity-focused approach that a lot of folks on here seem to take, but I figure I that I haven't said anything inflammatory/ regrettable...rad lulz wrote:Emory?jrfreed wrote:Ironically, I actually left LA to attend an elite Southern school for undergrad, and found very little difference in the way of political mindset (of course, that could just be my university, which is very popular among Northeasterners)zman wrote:except maybe in the South but of course he wouldn't care about that.Ti Malice wrote:As others have said, do not let the politics of the student body enter into your decision-making. The student body at any law school worth attending is going to be somewhere between predominantly liberal to almost entirely liberal.
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Re: Advice wanted- UCLA vs. USC vs. Boalt
Why? If USC has better employment stats (and they do) then why is UCLA a clear cut choice at equal price? Prettier campus?zman wrote:Equal money go UCLA over USC(For the most part) but big law firms don't appear to have nearly as much respect for UCLA as they do for those ranked in the top 14 even though UCLA has better GPA's then quite a few of them. last year UCLA had a horrible year. only 23% got big law.
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