Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

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Jazzman1925
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Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby Jazzman1925 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:03 pm

Hey everyone, I'm completely new to this forum and I'm a 0L with offers from several schools. I've seen alot of hate directed at Baylor, but haven't seen a real reason why (went to undergrad at BU). Would anyone mind telling me why Baylor is so bad? Also, I'm looking at a good place to study International or Human Rights law, and have gotten the following options. Should I go with a lower ranked school (say SMU or Baylor) for free, GW or ND with a scholly of 10-20k a year, or Cornell/Duke for sticker? I'd like to avoid debt as much as possible, but want to have as many options for a good I/HR law job as possible.

Whatever you say, give me a good reason or some information behind it, not just something like "Baylor sucks". Thanks! :)

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suralin
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Re: Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby suralin » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:10 pm

Jazzman1925 wrote:Hey everyone, I'm completely new to this forum and I'm a 0L with offers from several schools. I've seen alot of hate directed at Baylor, but haven't seen a real reason why (went to undergrad at BU). Would anyone mind telling me why Baylor is so bad? Also, I'm looking at a good place to study International or Human Rights law, and have gotten the following options. Should I go with a lower ranked school (say SMU or Baylor) for free, GW or ND with a scholly of 10-20k a year, or Cornell/Duke for sticker? I'd like to avoid debt as much as possible, but want to have as many options for a good I/HR law job as possible.

Whatever you say, give me a good reason or some information behind it, not just something like "Baylor sucks". Thanks! :)


Lol. Do some research.

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nygrrrl
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Re: Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby nygrrrl » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:18 pm

Moving this to a more appropriate forum...

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TheThriller
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Re: Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby TheThriller » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:20 pm

Baylor Sucks
You are in an on-topic thread. Careful.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:47 pm

First of all, you are not going to practice international or human rights law or any combination of those things. So if that is the only reason you'd go to law school, you should probably do something else.

Second of all, a lot of this depends on where you want to work. If you want to work in Texas and can get a full ride to SMU, that is a pretty good deal. Have you applied to UT? I wouldn't go to NDLS with anything less than 1/2 scholarship (even then, it's risky for sure). I wouldn't be enamored with Cornell or Duke at sticker.

Jazzman1925
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Re: Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby Jazzman1925 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:54 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:First of all, you are not going to practice international or human rights law or any combination of those things. So if that is the only reason you'd go to law school, you should probably do something else.


Why? Do IJM, NFS, Polaris project not hire lawyers? Or do you just mean that the salary is low?

Suralin wrote: Lol. Do some research.


Got any links?

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Elston Gunn
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Re: Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby Elston Gunn » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:02 pm

Jazzman1925 wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:First of all, you are not going to practice international or human rights law or any combination of those things. So if that is the only reason you'd go to law school, you should probably do something else.


Why? Do IJM, NFS, Polaris project not hire lawyers? Or do you just mean that the salary is low?


No, it's that cool-sounding public interest jobs (especially at visible non profits) go almost exclusively to students from tippy top law schools (probably a truly shocking percentage come just from Harvard, Yale and Stanford). There are very, very a few of these jobs, to the point where if you don't either get into HYS or go to a T14 AND have a very substantial resume in the area you want to work in, you should probably consider these jobs nonexistent. ITE, where there have been so many cuts in the public sector, the jobs you're talking about are much harder to get than BigLaw. If you wanted to be a public defender or something it would be a (slightly) different story.

I don't think any of your options are all that great, though SMU for free wouldn't be bad if you wanted to work at a firm in TX. What are your stats? A retake might help you substantially if youve got a 3.8ish GPA.

Wakelaw15
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Re: Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby Wakelaw15 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:13 pm

so in title you mention wake forest, but not in message body. my view:

cornell/duke @ sticker= bad investment

gw/nd/wfu/baylor= depending on the scholarship, and whether you want to practice in the region, go from there (i.e. don't go to baylor unless you want texas; don't go to wfu unless you want NC or maybe a bordering state; and don't go to any of these school without significant $ and a plan).

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ndirish2010
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Re: Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:17 pm

Because there are so few of those jobs and you're not getting one of them. Retake and go to Yale.

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helix23
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Re: Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby helix23 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:44 pm

Jazzman1925 wrote:
Suralin wrote: Lol. Do some research.


Got any links?


http://www.lstscorereports.com/?r=other

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=baylor

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kalvano
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Re: Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby kalvano » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:41 am

SMU doesn't do full rides except for a special program.

SMU is still better than Baylor. But I'd go T14 at sticker all day before SMU with money.

xc326
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Re: Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby xc326 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:47 am

I vote for Baylor with $$$$.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:09 am

Jazzman1925 wrote:Hey everyone, I'm completely new to this forum and I'm a 0L with offers from several schools. I've seen alot of hate directed at Baylor, but haven't seen a real reason why (went to undergrad at BU). Would anyone mind telling me why Baylor is so bad? Also, I'm looking at a good place to study International or Human Rights law, and have gotten the following options. Should I go with a lower ranked school (say SMU or Baylor) for free, GW or ND with a scholly of 10-20k a year, or Cornell/Duke for sticker? I'd like to avoid debt as much as possible, but want to have as many options for a good I/HR law job as possible.

Whatever you say, give me a good reason or some information behind it, not just something like "Baylor sucks". Thanks! :)


Where do you want to work and live? As already been said by others, doing human rights work is going to be very, very difficult, especially if you don't already have the resume for it. (That said, if you want to do immigration work, that's much more attainable, especially in Texas.) I would think out your career goals more (as well as where you want to work)--it will help you be able to answer this question. If your goal is working in NYC, then Cornell or Duke is the answer (though at sticker that means you will be shooting for biglaw or using their LRAP program). If your goal is work in Texas, either in immigration or something else, trying to get a big scholarship at SMU or Baylor isn't an awful option if you are able to limit your debt to as little as possible.

The reason Baylor has a bad rap on here is because it's placement typically lags behind SMU and UH and it's supposedly a hell-hole environment to try and get a JD (and it's purposefully made that way). You are forced to go through their trial-program, which is okay if you want to do litigation, but from what I've heard from other people it makes 2L and 3L much more stressful than most other law schools. (So basically you do more work, have more stress, and your job prospects aren't as good as some of the other Texas schools--seems like a raw deal to me.)

timbs4339
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Re: Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:06 am

There are likely more jobs for professors of international human rights law that open up each year than there are jobs for international human rights lawyers. And no, you won't be an international human rights law professor from any of the above schools either.

BigZuck
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Re: Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby BigZuck » Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:40 am

I voted UT with instate tuition and a small scholarship.

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whosonfirst
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Re: Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby whosonfirst » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:01 am

Considering you want a career in non-profit, you should look seriously at GW with $$. You'll be in DC and that'll offer you a significant opportunity to network with non-profits year-round, not just in the summer. Additionally, GW (and GT) hosts amazing speakers year-round, which could open you to even more opportunities (you can youtube many of these).

Wherever you go though, you should go with a plan. Research the non-profits/legal work you want to do and know what opportunities are out there. Then work your butt off to tailor your resume to those opportunities as best as possible to increase your chance of getting those few legal jobs - start a club promoting international/human rights legal work, work as an intern with a non-profit focusing on this wherever you go, etc. Someone above me said the people who get the jobs you want have significant other experience and he's right. So make it a focus to get that experience wherever you go - factor that into your final decision if you don't already have that experience.

Best of luck!

tracy77
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Re: Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby tracy77 » Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:40 am

whosonfirst wrote:Considering you want a career in non-profit, you should look seriously at GW with $$. You'll be in DC and that'll offer you a significant opportunity to network with non-profits year-round, not just in the summer. Additionally, GW (and GT) hosts amazing speakers year-round, which could open you to even more opportunities (you can youtube many of these).

Wherever you go though, you should go with a plan. Research the non-profits/legal work you want to do and know what opportunities are out there. Then work your butt off to tailor your resume to those opportunities as best as possible to increase your chance of getting those few legal jobs - start a club promoting international/human rights legal work, work as an intern with a non-profit focusing on this wherever you go, etc. Someone above me said the people who get the jobs you want have significant other experience and he's right. So make it a focus to get that experience wherever you go - factor that into your final decision if you don't already have that experience.

Best of luck!



How's the perspect of going to law firms or regulatory agencies for GWU?

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rabbitrun
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Re: Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby rabbitrun » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:29 am

Here are the reasons why Baylor is terrible:
1. WACO
2. The law school is ranked as the most competitive between students. So you spend 3 years backstabbing people and then graduate w/ little prospects
3. The whole, "We are a great football team now" when really you just had RGIII for a couple of years
4. Everyone is either a fratty druggie or judgy-religious
5. When you are driving between Austin and DFW, and you hit Waco you think, "Oh crap, I'm only at Waco!"
6. ugly ugly campus
7. WACO
8. No seriously, Waco is in the middle of no where and you are competing for jobs w/ UT (Austin) SMU (Dallas) and UH (Houston). UT dominates throughout texas, but all three definitely have hometown advantage. The only cities left in Texas are San Antonio, where St. Mary's grads actually do pretty well, Lubbock, which isn't technically part of Texas because, lets face it, the panhandle is really New Oklahoma and then there are the Tech students there too... I forgot about them but everyone else does too... and then you have El Paso and thats it. Oh and then in a few years you are going to have to contend w/ Aggies only hiring young Aggie lawyers from their newly minted law school.
9. That stupid mail out they sent where you plant it and it grows wildflowers :roll:
10. If you want non-profits, you have to realize that a Baylor Law degree pretty much forbids you from leaving texas.

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potterpirate04
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Re: Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby potterpirate04 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:43 am

rabbitrun wrote:Here are the reasons why Baylor is terrible:
1. WACO
2. The law school is ranked as the most competitive between students. So you spend 3 years backstabbing people and then graduate w/ little prospects
3. The whole, "We are a great football team now" when really you just had RGIII for a couple of years
4. Everyone is either a fratty druggie or judgy-religious
5. When you are driving between Austin and DFW, and you hit Waco you think, "Oh crap, I'm only at Waco!"
6. ugly ugly campus
7. WACO
8. No seriously, Waco is in the middle of no where and you are competing for jobs w/ UT (Austin) SMU (Dallas) and UH (Houston). UT dominates throughout texas, but all three definitely have hometown advantage. The only cities left in Texas are San Antonio, where St. Mary's grads actually do pretty well, Lubbock, which isn't technically part of Texas because, lets face it, the panhandle is really New Oklahoma and then there are the Tech students there too... I forgot about them but everyone else does too... and then you have El Paso and thats it. Oh and then in a few years you are going to have to contend w/ Aggies only hiring young Aggie lawyers from their newly minted law school.
9. That stupid mail out they sent where you plant it and it grows wildflowers :roll:
10. If you want non-profits, you have to realize that a Baylor Law degree pretty much forbids you from leaving texas.


Exactly. Also, #5. Ugh. Every damned time. Take if from a native Texan, TITCR.

nebula666
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Re: Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby nebula666 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:49 am

Why is UT not on this list...

Jazzman1925
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Re: Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby Jazzman1925 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:22 pm

rabbitrun wrote:Here are the reasons why Baylor is terrible:
1. WACO
2. The law school is ranked as the most competitive between students. So you spend 3 years backstabbing people and then graduate w/ little prospects
3. The whole, "We are a great football team now" when really you just had RGIII for a couple of years
4. Everyone is either a fratty druggie or judgy-religious
5. When you are driving between Austin and DFW, and you hit Waco you think, "Oh crap, I'm only at Waco!"
6. ugly ugly campus
7. WACO
8. No seriously, Waco is in the middle of no where and you are competing for jobs w/ UT (Austin) SMU (Dallas) and UH (Houston). UT dominates throughout texas, but all three definitely have hometown advantage. The only cities left in Texas are San Antonio, where St. Mary's grads actually do pretty well, Lubbock, which isn't technically part of Texas because, lets face it, the panhandle is really New Oklahoma and then there are the Tech students there too... I forgot about them but everyone else does too... and then you have El Paso and thats it. Oh and then in a few years you are going to have to contend w/ Aggies only hiring young Aggie lawyers from their newly minted law school.
9. That stupid mail out they sent where you plant it and it grows wildflowers :roll:
10. If you want non-profits, you have to realize that a Baylor Law degree pretty much forbids you from leaving texas.


LOL. Loved #4,#1,#7 and #8. Went to Baylor for undergrad-- so true.

nebula666 wrote:Why is UT not on this list...


UT is... still waiting to hear back.

whosonfirst wrote:Considering you want a career in non-profit, you should look seriously at GW with $$. You'll be in DC and that'll offer you a significant opportunity to network with non-profits year-round, not just in the summer. Additionally, GW (and GT) hosts amazing speakers year-round, which could open you to even more opportunities (you can youtube many of these).

Wherever you go though, you should go with a plan. Research the non-profits/legal work you want to do and know what opportunities are out there. Then work your butt off to tailor your resume to those opportunities as best as possible to increase your chance of getting those few legal jobs - start a club promoting international/human rights legal work, work as an intern with a non-profit focusing on this wherever you go, etc. Someone above me said the people who get the jobs you want have significant other experience and he's right. So make it a focus to get that experience wherever you go - factor that into your final decision if you don't already have that experience.

Best of luck!


Thanks for the advice. The more I research this field, the more I get that I have *alot* to learn.

Great, thanks everyone for the answers and for helping out a newb 0L. I tossed out Baylor after getting in touch with some people there :shock: . Got a couple very good schollys from some other schools which really opens up better options. I'm favoring GW since I'm debt averse but also want a decent school. Law school transparency is very favorable toward GW too.

Ti Malice
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Re: Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby Ti Malice » Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:16 pm

I would think that Baylor's reputation for offering the most miserable law school experience in the nation would eventually exert some downward pressure on its ranking. I guess the word doesn't reach many people.

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Yukos
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Re: Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby Yukos » Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:43 pm

rabbitrun wrote:Here are the reasons why Baylor is terrible:
3. The whole, "We are a great football team now" when really you just had RGIII for a couple of years


Yeah but their women's basketball team is sick.

Jose Reyes
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Re: Baylor $$$$, Wake Forest $$$, GW/ND $$, or T14 sticker?

Postby Jose Reyes » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:20 pm

Great, thanks everyone for the answers and for helping out a newb 0L. I tossed out Baylor after getting in touch with some people there :shock: . Got a couple very good schollys from some other schools which really opens up better options. I'm favoring GW since I'm debt averse but also want a decent school. Law school transparency is very favorable toward GW too.


100% agree with this. DO NOT take sticker at Cornell/Duke. Go to GW with $$ and enjoy the ride.

There are so many opportunities in DC for internships/experience during the semester...put them to use!




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