SHU vs Rutgers

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zoomzoom88
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SHU vs Rutgers

Postby zoomzoom88 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:04 pm

shu: 25000 per yr scholly, would commute from home total cost: 60,000
RU-N total cost: 39,000

just received SHU info today... too early to tell them about Rutgers offer and ask for some more money?

thanks!

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Nova
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby Nova » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:09 pm

Youre assuming youll meet SHUs stips, yes? So it could really be 60-110k, yes?

What are the stips on each? How much is the R-N scholarship worth?
SH wrote:•62.8% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs. This figure includes no school-funded jobs.
•78.5% graduates were employed in long-term jobs.
•79.5% graduates were employed in full-time jobs.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=setonhall
R-N wrote:•56.5% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs. This includes an unknown number school-funded jobs, but it is as high as 0.8%.
•78.6% graduates were employed in long-term jobs.
•77.8% graduates were employed in full-time jobs.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=rutgers-newark

zoomzoom88
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby zoomzoom88 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:11 pm

shu: top 75% stip
RU-N: maintain 2.8

Ru-N: 12000 a year plus in state tuition aka 13,000 a year

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Nova
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby Nova » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:17 pm

If you havent, you should figure out where 2.8 is on the curve.

Also, have you considered retaking the LSAT in Feb/June?
Last edited by Nova on Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Wholigan
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby Wholigan » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:25 pm

Do you know what you want to do after you graduate? I would definitely see if SHU would raise their scholarship to match your Rutgers COA. A day or two is fine; you can tell them you were excited to get in but it will cost you $20k more than Rutgers and see what they can do. Also, whether you can get more money or not, I would see if you can play one off the other and get the stips dropped to just good standing. Rutgers has a 3.0 curve, so while this is a guess on my part, I would say your Rutgers stip is a little worse and will come out to something like top 65%.

zoomzoom88
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby zoomzoom88 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:31 pm

i am going to email SHU and see if they will meet the rutgers offer.. i also have a full tuition offer to levy. Not sure if theyll bite but well see!

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stillwater
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby stillwater » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:39 pm

Not to be harsh but Seton Hall is a dump. It has horrid job prospects. HORRID. Rutgers, conversely, is less expensive and easy to gain in-state. Don't go to SHU.

zoomzoom88
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby zoomzoom88 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:42 pm

its job prospects (according to LST) seem no worse than rutgers?

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stillwater
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby stillwater » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:45 pm

zoomzoom88 wrote:its job prospects (according to LST) seem no worse than rutgers?


because they funnel people into traffic court clerkships

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Wholigan
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby Wholigan » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:48 pm

stillwater wrote:Not to be harsh but Seton Hall is a dump. It has horrid job prospects. HORRID. Rutgers, conversely, is less expensive and easy to gain in-state. Don't go to SHU.


You are certainly not the first to criticize SHU, but conventional wisdom is that it is approximately equivalent to RU/N in employment prospects, and maybe a little better for big firms at the top of the class (while arguably a bit worse for government work). As to your points about in-state and cost, as OP stated, s/he is apparently aware of this and trying to minimize cost and the risk of losing the scholarship.

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stillwater
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby stillwater » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:50 pm

Wholigan wrote:
stillwater wrote:Not to be harsh but Seton Hall is a dump. It has horrid job prospects. HORRID. Rutgers, conversely, is less expensive and easy to gain in-state. Don't go to SHU.


You are certainly not the first to criticize SHU, but conventional wisdom is that it is approximately equivalent to RU/N in employment prospects, and maybe a little better for big firms at the top of the class (while arguably a bit worse for government work). As to your points about in-state and cost, as OP stated, s/he is apparently aware of this and trying to minimize cost and the risk of losing the scholarship.


okay, obviously you are the expert. Seton Hall also ruthlessly section stacks so people lose their scholarships. sounds like a place to go to school. Good luck OP. Just do your research.

zoomzoom88
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby zoomzoom88 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:54 pm

stagnant water... i will take your input in stride but also do my research none the less. I like the edge it has for biglaw over ru-n. I don't want to do gov work-- definitely mid to big law.

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stillwater
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby stillwater » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:57 pm

zoomzoom88 wrote:stagnant water... i will take your input in stride but also do my research none the less. I like the edge it has for biglaw over ru-n. I don't want to do gov work-- definitely mid to big law.


do you have any retakes? neither school gives you a great chance at biglaw (read almost no chance). midlaw firms typically don't hire law students. these schools will greatly limit you to working in NJ. they won't travel.

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Wholigan
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby Wholigan » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:58 pm

stillwater wrote:
Wholigan wrote:
stillwater wrote:Not to be harsh but Seton Hall is a dump. It has horrid job prospects. HORRID. Rutgers, conversely, is less expensive and easy to gain in-state. Don't go to SHU.


You are certainly not the first to criticize SHU, but conventional wisdom is that it is approximately equivalent to RU/N in employment prospects, and maybe a little better for big firms at the top of the class (while arguably a bit worse for government work). As to your points about in-state and cost, as OP stated, s/he is apparently aware of this and trying to minimize cost and the risk of losing the scholarship.


okay, obviously you are the expert. Seton Hall also ruthlessly section stacks so people lose their scholarships. sounds like a place to go to school. Good luck OP. Just do your research.


I'm not saying I'm the expert, just pointing out that it seems you came to shit on SHU without even reading OP's thread. S/he already said the stip is top 75%. Even if they put every person who has a scholly in the same section at worst in this case OP's chances of losing the money is 25%. Why should the OP care if other people have bad stips if s/he has a good stip?

ETA: But, yes OP, if your goal is biglaw/midlaw, increasing your LSAT is the most likely way to hit the target.
Last edited by Wholigan on Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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stillwater
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby stillwater » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:59 pm

Wholigan wrote:
I'm not saying I'm the expert, just pointing out that it seems you came to shit on SHU without even reading OP's thread. S/he already said the stip is top 75%. Even if they put every person who has a scholly in the same section at worst in this case OP's chances of losing the money is 25%. Why should the OP care if other people have bad stips if s/he has a good stip?


that is a bad stip. good standing is a normal stip.

zoomzoom88
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby zoomzoom88 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:01 pm

if i dont stay in the top 75% of my class at SHU i should drop out.

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stillwater
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby stillwater » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:03 pm

believe me, im not tryna shit on your dreams. im just trying to help. if you are big law or bust, then you should retake and increase your chances at biglaw.

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Wholigan
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby Wholigan » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:03 pm

stillwater wrote:
Wholigan wrote:
I'm not saying I'm the expert, just pointing out that it seems you came to shit on SHU without even reading OP's thread. S/he already said the stip is top 75%. Even if they put every person who has a scholly in the same section at worst in this case OP's chances of losing the money is 25%. Why should the OP care if other people have bad stips if s/he has a good stip?


that is a bad stip. good standing is a normal stip.


That's why I told OP above to negotiate for good standing. But OP is right, it shouldn't make a difference because there is not a lot of point to staying after the first year if s/he is bottom 25% anyway.

zoomzoom88
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby zoomzoom88 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:05 pm

stillwater wrote:believe me, im not tryna shit on your dreams. im just trying to help. if you are big law or bust, then you should retake and increase your chances at biglaw.



no i totally understand your position and do appreciate your thoughts -- I am going to do everything I can to increase my scholarships at both institutions. but i dont think biglaw is the only route to a successful law career. but im probably just fooling myself.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby somewhatwayward » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:21 pm

If you want big law, the only reasonable thing to do is retake. I just checked LST and Rutgers has a 6.5% big firm score while SHU has 5.5%, so SHU actually has no advantage. When you add in federal clerkships since fed clerks can usually go on to big firms, you get about equivalent big law placement power, ~8% of each class is big law or could do big law.

As a threshold matter, don't pay $20K+ more for SHU since there is no placement advantage. Also, honestly, I think RU-N is more respected in the legal field. For whatever reason SHU has a bad rep. Maybe it is the sleazy dean. I don't know. I just know that, in considering the NYC-area schools, the ones that should be categorically avoided are NYLS, Pace, Touro, and SHU (CUNY gets a pass for being cheap as shit). I know SHU is much more highly-ranked than the others in that group, and its students are probably smarter on the whole. IMO, you should take your decent LSAT elsewhere. This is anecdotal, but I have worked in big law and in the GC's office of a big company and met a lot of high-powered lawyers, and I don't think I have met a single SHU grad while I have met maybe 3 Rutgers people. That shouldn't really factor in since we know the placement numbers are the same.

But if you really want big law or mid law (mid law is fairly rare for someone right out of school - usually you lateral into it after a few years), both of which require pretty much the same credentials, these options are no good. I am sorry. They just aren't. An 8% chance at your desired outcome is tiny. If you were also interested in gov or small firm work (or, better yet, traffic court clerkships), I would say keep negotiating with RU-N until you have your debt as close to 0 as possible and then go for it. But if you want big law and big law only, the only option is retake. This is a tired analogy, but would you take 50K and bet it on a game where you had an 8% chance of a good outcome (big law can be a trap but putting that aside...) and a 92% chance of losing your 50K? Top 10% and LR at RU-N or SHU is not even enough for big law since not even 10% get it. Yikes.

TL;DR: for big law, retake>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>RU-N>>>>>>>SHU (IMHO you should cross SHU off your list but use it for scholarship negotiation)

ETA: I have been reading your posts about your cycle on TLS, and I like you, and I wish you the best with whatever you decide....I don't mean to sound too heavy-handed.

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Nova
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby Nova » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:30 pm

stillwater wrote:that is a bad stip. good standing is a normal stip.

Some T1s and almost all TT/T/Ts are much worse. Either way, yeah, if youre bottom 25% at a TT, you should drop out. And of course, OP, do everything you cant to negotiate the stttips off.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=189178&p=5690817

zoomzoom, why you keep dodging the retake question? whatchya got going on in June?

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ndirish2010
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:31 pm

If you want biglaw, you should not be considering these schools.

zoomzoom88
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby zoomzoom88 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:32 pm

ive been studying for feb and not improving.

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deadpanic
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby deadpanic » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:37 pm

For biglaw, you have pretty much no chance from either these days.

If you can't improve your LSAT, I don't think Rutgers at a total cost of 40K is that bad. SHU is definitely not worth it at that cost.

zoomzoom88
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Re: SHU vs Rutgers

Postby zoomzoom88 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:42 pm

according to LST 126 grads from SHU had private sector lt/ft jd required jobs w the median salary at 130,000... is that just bs?




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