USNWR 2013 employment weights and rankings methodology

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Do you think USNWR will update/change it's employment weights/methodology?

Yes.
4
10%
No, but they should.
32
76%
No, but/and it doesn't matter.
6
14%
 
Total votes: 42

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cahwc12
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USNWR 2013 employment weights and rankings methodology

Postby cahwc12 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:09 pm

From the website:
Employment rates for graduates: The employment rates for the 2010 graduating class determine success in this category. Employment rates are measured at graduation (0.04 weight) and nine months after graduation (0.14 weight). For the second consecutive year, we have used the exact same formula to calculate the new J.D. employment rates used in the law school rankings in an effort to publish employment data that is somewhat more reflective of the current job market for new J.D. graduates. For the second year in row, both the at graduation and nine months after employment rates are figured solely based on the number of grads working at that point in time full or part time in a legal or non-legal job divided by the total number of J.D. graduates.


Does anyone know or care to speculate if USNWR has given any indication that they will update or change this policy for the March 2013 rankings? Given that the ABA employment data is becoming ever-more transparent, and employment outcomes are becoming ever-more important to prospective students, do you think the weight for a school's rank (just 18%) will increase?

Will they weigh full-time, long-term jobs requiring bar passage differently from short-term non-legal jobs?

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Rahviveh
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Re: USNWR 2013 employment weights and rankings methodology

Postby Rahviveh » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:13 pm

I thought I read on TLS that they were going to start excluding the school-funded jobs.

rad lulz
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Re: USNWR 2013 employment weights and rankings methodology

Postby rad lulz » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:16 pm

USNWR is useless. If you want employment outcomes just go to LST.

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cahwc12
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Re: USNWR 2013 employment weights and rankings methodology

Postby cahwc12 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:49 pm

rad lulz wrote:USNWR is useless. If you want employment outcomes just go to LST.


I totally agree with you. But USNWR still seems important to both law schools and most prospective law school applicants. Before 2010, all prospective applicants had to go on were the rankings and self-reported school employment data. Now that that data is more transparent, one would think that, in an effort to remain relevant in the face of increasing transparency and growing concern over troubling employment outcomes at most law schools, USNWR might adjust its rankings methodology to more heavily weight this in response.

rad lulz
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Re: USNWR 2013 employment weights and rankings methodology

Postby rad lulz » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:55 pm

cahwc12 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:USNWR is useless. If you want employment outcomes just go to LST.


I totally agree with you. But USNWR still seems important to both law schools and most prospective law school applicants. Before 2010, all prospective applicants had to go on were the rankings and self-reported school employment data. Now that that data is more transparent, one would think that, in an effort to remain relevant in the face of increasing transparency and growing concern over troubling employment outcomes at most law schools, USNWR might adjust its rankings methodology to more heavily weight this in response.

Why do you that what retarded law school applicants and retarded law school deans think is important is actually important.

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TripTrip
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Re: USNWR 2013 employment weights and rankings methodology

Postby TripTrip » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:37 am

rad lulz wrote:
cahwc12 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:USNWR is useless. If you want employment outcomes just go to LST.


I totally agree with you. But USNWR still seems important to both law schools and most prospective law school applicants. Before 2010, all prospective applicants had to go on were the rankings and self-reported school employment data. Now that that data is more transparent, one would think that, in an effort to remain relevant in the face of increasing transparency and growing concern over troubling employment outcomes at most law schools, USNWR might adjust its rankings methodology to more heavily weight this in response.

Why do you that what retarded law school applicants and retarded law school deans think is important is actually important.

Because if an AdComm is admitting certain students to game the USNWR rankings, I'd like to know how I can tailor my application to most appease those goals.

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dingbat
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Re: USNWR 2013 employment weights and rankings methodology

Postby dingbat » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:41 am

TripTrip wrote:Because if an AdComm is admitting certain students to game the USNWR rankings, I'd like to know how I can tailor my application to most appease those goals.

LSAT and GPA are the only things you can do to tailor your application toward a goal of affecting a school's USNWR ranking
rad lulz wrote:USNWR is useless. If you want employment outcomes just go to LST.
LST has a purpose, but they're not the be-all end-all when it comes to employment outcomes. They should be read in conjunction with the NLJ250 list (and probably drmguy's analysis)

rad lulz
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Re: USNWR 2013 employment weights and rankings methodology

Postby rad lulz » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:44 am

dingbat wrote:LST has a purpose, but they're not the be-all end-all when it comes to employment outcomes. They should be read in conjunction with the NLJ250 list (and probably drmguy's analysis)

They have those on LST now

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TripTrip
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Re: USNWR 2013 employment weights and rankings methodology

Postby TripTrip » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:16 am

dingbat wrote:
TripTrip wrote:Because if an AdComm is admitting certain students to game the USNWR rankings, I'd like to know how I can tailor my application to most appease those goals.

LSAT and GPA are the only things you can do to tailor your application toward a goal of affecting a school's USNWR ranking

And that would be more difficult to understand without understanding the USNWR ranking system. For example: why do schools seem to be more interested in the highest LSAT even if they say they average? Because that's what USNWR uses for the calculation!

USNWR also provides a plausible explanation for YP. I use this information to tailor my applications by writing "Why X" essays when I'm well above both medians.

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dingbat
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Re: USNWR 2013 employment weights and rankings methodology

Postby dingbat » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:37 am

TripTrip wrote:
dingbat wrote:
TripTrip wrote:Because if an AdComm is admitting certain students to game the USNWR rankings, I'd like to know how I can tailor my application to most appease those goals.

LSAT and GPA are the only things you can do to tailor your application toward a goal of affecting a school's USNWR ranking

And that would be more difficult to understand without understanding the USNWR ranking system. For example: why do schools seem to be more interested in the highest LSAT even if they say they average? Because that's what USNWR uses for the calculation!

USNWR also provides a plausible explanation for YP. I use this information to tailor my applications by writing "Why X" essays when I'm well above both medians.

Bingo - if you're a potential YP, you need to show you really want to go there even though your numbers indicate you can go somewhere better. If you're borderline, you want to show it's your first choice and you love it and you'll do anything and it's your dream school and good golly gosh mister, pleeeeease?

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TripTrip
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Re: USNWR 2013 employment weights and rankings methodology

Postby TripTrip » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:53 am

I think we agree that the USNWR ranking formula is utterly idiotic. However, as a prospective, understanding the rules of the game is immensely important in order to play the game properly. That's why the USNWR rankings are useful for 0Ls.

Just don't use USNWR to make your final decision on where to attend.

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20130312
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Re: USNWR 2013 employment weights and rankings methodology

Postby 20130312 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:09 am

The "rule of the game" are simple: have an LSAT and GPA above the school's medians.

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dingbat
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Re: USNWR 2013 employment weights and rankings methodology

Postby dingbat » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:12 am

TripTrip wrote:I think we agree that the USNWR ranking formula is utterly idiotic. However, as a prospective, understanding the rules of the game is immensely important in order to play the game properly. That's why the USNWR rankingsLSAT and GPA ranges are useful for 0Ls.

Just don't use USNWR to make your final decision on where to attend.

fixed

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TripTrip
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Re: USNWR 2013 employment weights and rankings methodology

Postby TripTrip » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:24 am

dingbat wrote:
TripTrip wrote:I think we agree that the USNWR ranking formula is utterly idiotic. However, as a prospective, understanding the rules of the game is immensely important in order to play the game properly. That's why the USNWR rankingsLSAT and GPA ranges are useful for 0Ls.

Just don't use USNWR to make your final decision on where to attend.

fixed

Primarily yes. But I'd argue that understanding acceptance rate (to avoid YP) and placement success (to elaborate WE) are also useful when putting together one's application.

Admittedly these are nowhere near as important as LSAT and GPA, but when you've got awesome numbers you want to make sure the rest of your application is rock solid. The rest of the USNWR ranking system helps prospectives who take the time to learn it understand what secondary factors are a part of the decision making process.

At the very least, it gave me something else to obsess over while waiting for my December LSAT score. :-P

rad lulz
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Re: USNWR 2013 employment weights and rankings methodology

Postby rad lulz » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:32 pm

TripTrip wrote:
dingbat wrote:
TripTrip wrote:Because if an AdComm is admitting certain students to game the USNWR rankings, I'd like to know how I can tailor my application to most appease those goals.

LSAT and GPA are the only things you can do to tailor your application toward a goal of affecting a school's USNWR ranking

And that would be more difficult to understand without understanding the USNWR ranking system. For example: why do schools seem to be more interested in the highest LSAT even if they say they average? Because that's what USNWR uses for the calculation!

USNWR also provides a plausible explanation for YP. I use this information to tailor my applications by writing "Why X" essays when I'm well above both medians.

Dude you basically said "USNWR rankings are useful because they explain behavior motivated by the USNWR ranking system." That's just asinine.

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TripTrip
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Re: USNWR 2013 employment weights and rankings methodology

Postby TripTrip » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:41 pm

rad lulz wrote:
TripTrip wrote:
dingbat wrote:
TripTrip wrote:Because if an AdComm is admitting certain students to game the USNWR rankings, I'd like to know how I can tailor my application to most appease those goals.

LSAT and GPA are the only things you can do to tailor your application toward a goal of affecting a school's USNWR ranking

And that would be more difficult to understand without understanding the USNWR ranking system. For example: why do schools seem to be more interested in the highest LSAT even if they say they average? Because that's what USNWR uses for the calculation!

USNWR also provides a plausible explanation for YP. I use this information to tailor my applications by writing "Why X" essays when I'm well above both medians.

Dude you basically said "USNWR rankings are useful because they explain behavior motivated by the USNWR ranking system." That's just asinine.

Yes! And that's why USNWR is asinine!

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20130312
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Re: USNWR 2013 employment weights and rankings methodology

Postby 20130312 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:51 pm

TripTrip wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Dude you basically said "USNWR rankings are useful because they explain behavior motivated by the USNWR ranking system." That's just asinine.

Yes! And that's why USNWR is asinine!

Image

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TripTrip
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Re: USNWR 2013 employment weights and rankings methodology

Postby TripTrip » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:03 pm

I don't think that what I am saying is that out there.

The only way USNWR is usefl for prospectives is if they take the time to understand how law schools are motivated by the rankings as opposed to using the rankings to choose which school to attend.




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