Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which Law School Should I Choose?

American (scholarship unknown)
2
3%
Campbell ($17,000 scholarship)
0
No votes
Catholic ($18,500 scholarship)
2
3%
Samford (haven't heard yet, but expect 1/2+ scholarship)
2
3%
UNC (in-state sticker)
42
72%
South Carolina (haven't heard yet, but expect 1/2+ scholarship)
0
No votes
Wake Forest (sticker)
4
7%
William & Mary (sticker)
6
10%
 
Total votes: 58

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booknook
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Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby booknook » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:38 pm

I've been accepted from the places above with the specified scholarships. I'm still waiting to here back from Richmond, but I think that'll I'll be in at sticker price.

Here's the deal. My grandparents are giving me $14,000 a year for law school, and my parents are willing to pay the remainder plus living expenses. I will be paying my parents back, although it won't be a typical loan (will not have set due dates, interest, etc.). So attending a school at sticker isn't as big of a cost as it could be. However, I obviously don't want to attend a really expensive school because a) I don't want to ask my parents to pay a large amount in tuition and b) I don't want a lot of "parent debt" when I graduate, if you will.

I'm fine practicing in any of the states where the law schools are located, so I won't be trying to take my degree across state lines. I'm from NC and have very strong connections there as well as strong connections in SC.

Each of the scholarships listed are per year. The stips aren't bad for any of them, and I expect to be able to get more money from the lower-ranked schools (Campbell, Samford).

Oh, and I am not retaking. Call me stubborn. So please don't advise that.

What do you all think?

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ndirish2010
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:42 pm

Out of those choices, Carolina by far. Still, retake or don't go.

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smaug_
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby smaug_ » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:51 pm

If you're adamant about not retaking, don't go.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby Doorkeeper » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:04 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:Out of those choices, Carolina by far. Still, retake or don't go.

This.

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AbbeyRoadLaw
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby AbbeyRoadLaw » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:07 pm

You ask for "help here, guys," yet do not want to listen to ACTUAL help? TCR here is retake or don't go, but it seems to me that you just want someone to say "Don't worry! Go to this school, and things will be fine!" and just ignore the fact that if these are your only options, not going to law school this cycle is the best option.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby rinkrat19 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:09 pm

booknook wrote:Oh, and I am not retaking. Call me stubborn.

This makes you less "stubborn" and more "stupid." Prove us wrong.

BigZuck
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby BigZuck » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:39 pm

Of all these choices, Stanford is clearly the best. You would be insane not to go. Congrats!

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rinkrat19
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby rinkrat19 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:40 pm

BigZuck wrote:Of all these choices, Stanford is clearly the best. You would be insane not to go. Congrats!

not sure if srs

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Nova
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby Nova » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:45 pm

UNC in-state is your best option.

Best school that dominates its market.

Youll come out with only about 50k parent debt if you live modestly.

BigZuck
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby BigZuck » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:59 pm

Nova wrote:UNC in-state is your best option.

Best school that dominates its market.

Youll come out with only about 50k parent debt if you live modestly.


I have to think that Duke (15% in NC) and Wake Forest (38% in NC) have to be taking up a good chunk of the desirable jobs in North Carolina though right?

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ndirish2010
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:00 pm

BigZuck wrote:
Nova wrote:UNC in-state is your best option.

Best school that dominates its market.

Youll come out with only about 50k parent debt if you live modestly.


I have to think that Duke (15% in NC) and Wake Forest (38% in NC) have to be taking up a good chunk of the desirable jobs in North Carolina though right?


In the Triangle, Carolina >> Wake. Actually, this is probably true in most places in NC.

BigZuck
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby BigZuck » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:04 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
Nova wrote:UNC in-state is your best option.

Best school that dominates its market.

Youll come out with only about 50k parent debt if you live modestly.


I have to think that Duke (15% in NC) and Wake Forest (38% in NC) have to be taking up a good chunk of the desirable jobs in North Carolina though right?


In the Triangle, Carolina >> Wake. Actually, this is probably true in most places in NC.


Lay prestige or legal hiring or both?

Do you think the Duke kids are getting good jobs in NC? Or are these the kids who are scraping the bottom of the barrel and taking whatever jobs they can get? How many good jobs are there in NC anyway?

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smaug_
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby smaug_ » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:08 pm

Nova wrote: Best Local school that dominates its market where you need to kill it to have a shot at a good job in a region where students from better schools will eat your already meager lunch.


FTFY

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ndirish2010
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:21 pm

BigZuck wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
Nova wrote:UNC in-state is your best option.

Best school that dominates its market.

Youll come out with only about 50k parent debt if you live modestly.


I have to think that Duke (15% in NC) and Wake Forest (38% in NC) have to be taking up a good chunk of the desirable jobs in North Carolina though right?


In the Triangle, Carolina >> Wake. Actually, this is probably true in most places in NC.


Lay prestige or legal hiring or both?

Do you think the Duke kids are getting good jobs in NC? Or are these the kids who are scraping the bottom of the barrel and taking whatever jobs they can get? How many good jobs are there in NC anyway?


Yes in legal hiring, Carolina > Wake for sure in the triangle. Not sure about Charlotte. In the Triad, there aren't that many jobs but that is Wake's region. I'd imagine they're fairly equal in Charlotte.

Duke with ties will outperform similar or better people from Carolina/Wake. Without ties probably not.

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Nova
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby Nova » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:38 pm

hibiki wrote:
Nova wrote: Best Local school that dominates its market where you need to kill it to have a shot at a good job in a region where students from better schools will eat your already meager lunch.


FTFY

No. Youre wrong.

Excluding T14, UNC has some of the best job prospects in the 1st tier. OP would only have about 50k debt upon graduation without interest. Thats a way better position to be in than the vast majority of matriculates.
Last edited by Nova on Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rad lulz
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby rad lulz » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:42 pm

If you're actually from NC (or have close family there), then UNC. If you're not from NC, retake or don't go.

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smaug_
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby smaug_ » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:57 pm

Nova wrote:No. Youre wrong.

Excluding T!4, UNC has some of the best job prospects the 1st tier. OP would only have about 50k debt upon graduation without interest. Thats a way better position to be in than the vast majority of matriculates.


And even in the T14, the job prospects for many schools are iffy. Moreover, I don't know where you're getting the 50k debt figure. By my math it would be more like 68k (using UNC's COL and in-state tuition, minus the grandparent's gift). There are worse options, but telling someone to settle here is a bad call. I get that many posters have gotten into the habit of being helpful and positive lately, but you're not helping someone here. If you look here (again, I doubt you did the first time) http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=unc&show=sals you'll see that even at a low cost employment outcomes are less than ideal.

Probably more importantly, we're both making assumptions that we shouldn't: we don't know what OP's expectations are outside that OP is ok with working in NC. Is gambling 68k and three years worth of time worth a 15% shot at making more than 70k? If OP thinks so, great. But, I think for most rational actors, it would be a bad call.

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Nova
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby Nova » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:43 am

hibiki wrote:And even in the T14, the job prospects for many schools are iffy. Moreover, I don't know where you're getting the 50k debt figure. By my math it would be more like 68k (using UNC's COL and in-state tuition, minus the grandparent's gift).

Youre right, I was looking at old numbers. Call it 70k with out interest. Still not that much over the course of one's work life.
There are worse options, but telling someone to settle here is a bad call. I get that many posters have gotten into the habit of being helpful and positive lately, but you're not helping someone here.

Gotten into a habit of being helpful? Thats the point of the site.

Im giving my opinion on OPs best option if they matriculate in Fall. Obviously a retake and higher score could easily result in better prospects. I think OP knows that. If you dont think pointing out the best option other than retake is helpful, whatever. Do your thing and tell everyone who doesnt have a full scholarship to their local T1 to retake. The gift is equivalent to a 2/3 scholarship. If you think a 2/3 tuition scholarship at UNC is a bad deal, ok.
If you look here (again, I doubt you did the first time) http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=unc&show=sals you'll see that even at a low cost employment outcomes are less than ideal.

Is gambling 68k and three years worth of time worth a 15% shot at making more than 70k? If OP thinks so, great. But, I think for most rational actors, it would be a bad call.

I did look at the page the first time, and I wondered why you were linking to a very incomplete statistic where less than 30% of the class reported data that includes both private and public jobs.

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PickMe!
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby PickMe! » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:49 am

Doorkeeper wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:Out of those choices, Carolina by far. Still, retake or don't go.

This.


Again, This.

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smaug_
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby smaug_ » Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:01 am

Nova wrote:Gotten into a habit of being helpful? Thats the point of the site.

In your case, it's getting to be a bad habit. I should probably be more vocal as TLS helped me during the admissions cycle. I think too many people here extrapolate from their own experiences and hopes here, particularly students who made risky decisions in their own cycles.

Nova wrote: Im giving my opinion on OPs best option if they matriculate in Fall. Obviously a retake and higher score could easily result in better prospects. I think OP knows that. If you dont think pointing out the best option other than retake is helpful, whatever. Do your thing and tell everyone who doesnt have a full scholarship to their local T1 to retake. The gift is equivalent to a 2/3 scholarship. If you think a 2/3 tuition scholarship at UNC is a bad deal, ok.

My thing isn't to tell people who don't have a full scholarship to retake. I don't really have a thing and if I did, it would probably be telling splitters not to ED.

More importantly, the gift differs from a scholly in that it could be applied on top of a future scholarship. Hell, if Gran and Pop-pop are generous it could be put to use somewhere else. Regardless, I do think that someone should pause and carefully consider their expectations before attending any law school, unless that law school is called Yale, Stanford or Harvard.

Nova wrote: wondered why you were linking to a very incomplete statistic where less than 30% of the class reported data that includes both private and public jobs.

I like the old salary view as I think it is more intuitive than other options. It shows you graphically exactly what you're basing your decision on and how much of a gamble it is. I don't think it is a coincidence that a large number of students don't report their info at schools like UNC. If one's goal is to make 70k or more, UNC is very risky. If OP doesn't want that, he should question whether spending three years in school is a worthwhile investment.
Nova wrote:
hibiki wrote: Is gambling 68k and three years worth of time worth a 15% shot at making more than 70k? If OP thinks so, great. But, I think for most rational actors, it would be a bad call.

Less than30% of the class reported salary....

Do you think the rest did better than those who reported?

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Nova
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby Nova » Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:58 am

Hibiki wrote:More importantly, the gift differs from a scholly in that it could be applied on top of a future scholarship.

Yes, obviously. Obviously the best decision is to sit out and retake.
More power to everyone attempting to sway OP to retake.
Im saying UNC at about 70k debt is OPs best option other than that.
Hibiki wrote:Do you think the rest did better than those who reported?

No, not better. They probably did somewhat comparable though. It is flat out not true less than 15% of the class starts out making 70k or more. Its probably about 35-40%. And of course public sector jobs pull down that median.
hibiki wrote:In your case, it's getting to be a bad habit.

What are you taking about? Including this thread, Ive posted in 8 true choosing a law school threads over the past two months. In 5 I said retake. In 3 I said attend the regional with $$ and ties.

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PickMe!
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby PickMe! » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:58 am

ndirish2010 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
Nova wrote:UNC in-state is your best option.

Best school that dominates its market.

Youll come out with only about 50k parent debt if you live modestly.


I have to think that Duke (15% in NC) and Wake Forest (38% in NC) have to be taking up a good chunk of the desirable jobs in North Carolina though right?


In the Triangle, Carolina >> Wake. Actually, this is probably true in most places in all of NC.


This!

Despite conflicting opinions, UNC owns North Carolina, period. Wake is a soft second, and all others: Campbell, Elon, Central, Wiggins, are all fighting for a spot in the Charlotte and Columbia market. That being said, if OP is fine with working in North Carolina, taking UNC at in-state is not a huge financial risk. It’s actually a sound investment, I think.

nebula666
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby nebula666 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:08 am

UNC isn't a bad option if you are a resident. They only place 13% in Biglaw but the 42% working in private firms are making over $100k on average. You should retake for some better options, but UNC is faaaar better than the other options you have listed.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:19 am

nebula666 wrote:UNC isn't a bad option if you are a resident. They only place 13% in Biglaw but the 42% working in private firms are making over $100k on average. You should retake for some better options, but UNC is faaaar better than the other options you have listed.

Where do you come up with this?

Wakelaw15
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Re: Another "Where should I go?" Help out here guys!

Postby Wakelaw15 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:23 am

nebula666 wrote:UNC isn't a bad option if you are a resident. They only place 13% in Biglaw but the 42% working in private firms are making over $100k on average. You should retake for some better options, but UNC is faaaar better than the other options you have listed.


I looked closely at UNC's employment stats before choosing a law school, and this is definitely untrue. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but the proportion making 100k or more is somewhere between 13-20% of the class, and I think its at most 14/15%.




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