something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
BearsGrl
Posts: 1660
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:40 pm

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby BearsGrl » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:28 pm

Blessedassurance wrote:
Wormfather wrote: Interesting. Never thought of it this way.


If you pay full-freight and end up in NY, You're going to take 4-5 years of aggressively paying off debt just to make a significant dent in your debt, while living with roommates in Manhattan or commuting from Jersey. Even at a debt of say $100,000, New York requires sacrifices you wouldn't have to make elsewhere. Cost of Living-wise, ~80 grand in a place like Dallas or Houston is approximately over 300 grand in Manhattan. Lasting long enough in Manhattan is also a pretty dicey proposition, relatively.

At certain schools, you need to bet on NY Biglaw, or Chicago etc., as such, the school's placement is tied to the fortunes of its primary market. H places everywhere (including internationally). There are a lot of people who actively hate New York and would consider Law School a bad gamble if they have to do NY Biglaw. It's possible to get the jobs people on these boards consider mythical coming out of hys.

There are people who also had very fulfilling careers before Law School and would consider Biglaw in general to be a step in the wrong direction...like going backwards.

If you're considering hys, just talk to students (skip the stuff admissions feed you etc). Just talk to as many students as possible to get a general sense of what really goes on and make an informed decision. I mean I'm against Law School in general but the general hatred against H in particular on these boards is truly amusing.


I've been implying the same, in some respects for CA. COA is ridiculous if you're not coming from a large metro and even then, it's still likely that both NY/LA are vastly more expensive. You're paying for a house for a safe apartment in CA - not always but mostly. And your monthly apartment rate IS likely to increase. Obviously you could get a cheaper place, but if you want a parking spot underground, gym, pool, etc., you're paying vastly more in CA.

User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 15457
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:49 pm

Blessedassurance wrote: I mean I'm against Law School in general but the general hatred against H in particular on these boards is truly amusing.

One dude shit talking Harvard doesn't equal general hatred against it.

jstr00az
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:36 am

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby jstr00az » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:15 am

AllTheLawz wrote:It is not the same at all, actually. You would be shocked at what people do around HLS. First, the number of people who attend HYS wanting PI is far in excess of 10% (though the percentage of those who actually immediately do it is low). You also have to realize that a lot of people here have family support that allow them to take paths much riskier than biglaw. In addition, a lot of people have former consulting/Investment Banking/Hedge Fund experience that open up uncommon paths like going directly in-house or joining up with wealthy friends and doing their own thing. It isn't just JD/MBAs that take business jobs. A fair number of HLS people decide to do random crap like: join hedge funds, go immediately in-house, start their own PI orgs, do sherpa rights work overseas, go to med school, etc. Even within law firm choices HYS isnt as simple as biglaw being the number one option. There are a fair number of $110k+ paying non-biglaw firms that HLS students voluntarily choose.

I have to say from experience that TLS is a little too pessimistic when it comes to prospects at HYS (mostly HS, obviously).


If true - and you're probably right - then what you're saying is that the people who go to Harvard, Yale, Stanford are already set in life - either because of talent, connections, family wealth, etc. It's not really HYS doing the work, it's the students who go there who already have all these built-in advantages.

User avatar
dingbat
Posts: 4976
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby dingbat » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:50 am

jstr00az wrote:If true - and you're probably right - then what you're saying is that the people who go to Harvard, Yale, Stanford are already set in life - either because of talent, connections, family wealth, etc. It's not really HYS doing the work, it's the students who go there who already have all these built-in advantages.

That's a vast oversimplification. Even if someone has no connections they'll create them just by being at HYS. If they have no wealth, the LRAPs at HYS can't be beat.
I mean, getting into Yale is winning the law school lottery - you can do whatever you want and if you earn less than $60k they'll cover your loan payments, even if you decide to become a sherpa. This means that grads can choose to become public defenders and still eke out a living. Because you went to HYS, you're more likely to get the most prestigious positions like clerking for the supreme court, becoming a law professor, or working at the international court of justice, or any of a number of opportunities that are nearly impossible for anyone else to get. The reputation and network of the school will carry you far and wide, even if you have nothing to fall back on otherwise.

But people should stop overanalyzing this kind of thing and just use some common sense. The best schools have the best opportunities, so they attract the best students. Because the best schools attract the best students, they have the best opportunities. Because a school has the best students and the best opportunities, they're the best school.
This situation is self reinforcing.

User avatar
somewhatwayward
Posts: 1446
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:10 pm

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby somewhatwayward » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:54 pm

Blessedassurance wrote:
Wormfather wrote: Interesting. Never thought of it this way.


If you pay full-freight and end up in NY, You're going to take 4-5 years of aggressively paying off debt just to make a significant dent in your debt, while living with roommates in Manhattan or commuting from Jersey. Even at a debt of say $100,000, New York requires sacrifices you wouldn't have to make elsewhere. Cost of Living-wise, ~80 grand in a place like Dallas or Houston is approximately over 300 grand in Manhattan. Lasting long enough in Manhattan is also a pretty dicey proposition, relatively.

At certain schools, you need to bet on NY Biglaw, or Chicago etc., as such, the school's placement is tied to the fortunes of its primary market. H places everywhere (including internationally). There are a lot of people who actively hate New York and would consider Law School a bad gamble if they have to do NY Biglaw. It's possible to get the jobs people on these boards consider mythical coming out of hys.

There are people who also had very fulfilling careers before Law School and would consider Biglaw in general to be a step in the wrong direction...like going backwards.

If you're considering hys, just talk to students (skip the stuff admissions feed you etc). Just talk to as many students as possible to get a general sense of what really goes on and make an informed decision. I mean I'm against Law School in general but the general hatred against H in particular on these boards is truly amusing.


The amount you must pay back is the same whether you get paid 160K in NYC or 130K, or less, in a secondary market (TX being one of the exceptions where you are paid 160K but get that sweet COL). NYC COL will eat that extra post-taxes 20K (and probably more) right up, so you're not getting an advantage in paying back your loans by picking NYC, but NYC's increased salary does mitigate a significant amount of that discrepancy.

User avatar
manofjustice
Posts: 1323
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 10:01 pm

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby manofjustice » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:43 pm

philly93 wrote:so i was talking to a big law attorney about how to go about selecting schools. and he mentioned the following things:

- T6 almost guarantees you a big law firm.
- most of the t14 almost certainly gives yo a big law firm job offer.

these two were things that i expected however he went on to say: the problem in choosing t-14 schools are that they change in their rankings a lot (mostly from 7-14) and this means while you might have entered a t-14 school you might graduate at a school that is out of the t-14.

i find that hard to believe because when i looked up the law school rankings for the last few years the t-14 has maintained pretty standard.

what are your thoughts about this?


Total BS. Why was this practicing big law lawyer BSing you? Seems mean.

The signal of blatant, conscious BSing is that line about "you don't know if you'll be in the T14 from one year to the next." The T14 is the T14 because the same schools are always the top 14 in the USNWR rankings.

It sounds like he was mocking your prestige-consciousness. He probably just got his ass handed to him by a T-50 partner at a "shittier" V100 and is in a pissy mood.

User avatar
XxSpyKEx
Posts: 1741
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:48 am

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:49 pm

somewhatwayward wrote:
Blessedassurance wrote:
Wormfather wrote: Interesting. Never thought of it this way.


If you pay full-freight and end up in NY, You're going to take 4-5 years of aggressively paying off debt just to make a significant dent in your debt, while living with roommates in Manhattan or commuting from Jersey. Even at a debt of say $100,000, New York requires sacrifices you wouldn't have to make elsewhere. Cost of Living-wise, ~80 grand in a place like Dallas or Houston is approximately over 300 grand in Manhattan. Lasting long enough in Manhattan is also a pretty dicey proposition, relatively.

At certain schools, you need to bet on NY Biglaw, or Chicago etc., as such, the school's placement is tied to the fortunes of its primary market. H places everywhere (including internationally). There are a lot of people who actively hate New York and would consider Law School a bad gamble if they have to do NY Biglaw. It's possible to get the jobs people on these boards consider mythical coming out of hys.

There are people who also had very fulfilling careers before Law School and would consider Biglaw in general to be a step in the wrong direction...like going backwards.

If you're considering hys, just talk to students (skip the stuff admissions feed you etc). Just talk to as many students as possible to get a general sense of what really goes on and make an informed decision. I mean I'm against Law School in general but the general hatred against H in particular on these boards is truly amusing.


The amount you must pay back is the same whether you get paid 160K in NYC or 130K, or less, in a secondary market (TX being one of the exceptions where you are paid 160K but get that sweet COL). NYC COL will eat that extra post-taxes 20K (and probably more) right up, so you're not getting an advantage in paying back your loans by picking NYC, but NYC's increased salary does mitigate a significant amount of that discrepancy.


Not really. NYC is the most expensive city to live in, but biglaw still pays the same thing that office in DC, Chicago, LA, San Fransisco, Palo Alto, and other cheaper major cities (including those in TX) pay. You come out way ahead working in, e.g., Chicago making $160k /year relative to making $160k /year in NYC. Texas is obviously the best outcome though (with respect to highest salary relative to the CPI ... not to mention no state taxes in TX).

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby IAFG » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:55 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
Not really. NYC is the most expensive city to live in, but biglaw still pays the same thing that office in DC, Chicago, LA, San Fransisco, Palo Alto, and other cheaper major cities (including those in TX) pay. You come out way ahead working in, e.g., Chicago making $160k /year relative to making $160k /year in NYC. Texas is obviously the best outcome though (with respect to highest salary relative to the CPI ... not to mention no state taxes in TX).

The above reasoning didn't follow when NY paid NY bonuses, but it may remain true for a while still (or forever).

User avatar
BruceWayne
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:36 pm

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby BruceWayne » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:02 pm

Blessedassurance wrote:HYS almost guarantees Biglaw. You need a shitload of things to work against you to strike out, and even then, most people land on their feet. Not only that, it guarantees you have at shot at places you don't even have ties to, if you can come up with a believable reason. The theory holds true irrespective of grades.

There are various reasons for people to avoid NY Biglaw. In fact, the question should be why anyone with credible options would want to do NY Biglaw.


People used to give me a lot of crap for it--but this is why I always say HYS are in an entirely different league than "CCN" and that the gap between HYS and CCN is much bigger than any other gap within the top 14. NO school comes close to offering that sort of flexibility and job security.

User avatar
Blessedassurance
Posts: 2081
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:42 pm

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby Blessedassurance » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:05 pm

somewhatwayward wrote: The amount you must pay back is the same whether you get paid 160K in NYC or 130K, or less, in a secondary market (TX being one of the exceptions where you are paid 160K but get that sweet COL). NYC COL will eat that extra post-taxes 20K (and probably more) right up, so you're not getting an advantage in paying back your loans by picking NYC, but NYC's increased salary does mitigate a significant amount of that discrepancy.


160k in NYC after taxes comes out to 90-something grand. There are seven states without taxes. Crossing out states without a relatively sizable Biglaw market, you still get Texas (Dallas, Houston, and to some extent Austin), Washington (Seattle) and Florida. 120,000 in Seattle/Florida still comes to about 90-something after taxes. People taking jobs in such secondary markets come out way ahead in the first year due to COL and can dedicate a big chunk of their paycheck towards the debt. The counter-point would be lockstep in NYC in subsequent years, the counter-point to that counterpoint is that on average you're more likely to stay longer in secondary markets. NYC is absurdly expensive. A 100 grand in Texas is the equivalent of over 200 grand in NYC. You could argue that property taxes in Texas are unusually high but lol at buying property in NYC.

Now if you compare Chicago, Atlanta and even DC and San Francisco you still come out way ahead etc etc. The point is that people coming out of hys have a fair shot at secondary markets are not necessarily gunning for NYC Biglaw. People forgo NYC for secondaries all the time and are not losing sleep over V5 versus V20 etc.

Cellar-door
Posts: 370
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:33 pm

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby Cellar-door » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:23 pm

IAFG wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
Not really. NYC is the most expensive city to live in, but biglaw still pays the same thing that office in DC, Chicago, LA, San Fransisco, Palo Alto, and other cheaper major cities (including those in TX) pay. You come out way ahead working in, e.g., Chicago making $160k /year relative to making $160k /year in NYC. Texas is obviously the best outcome though (with respect to highest salary relative to the CPI ... not to mention no state taxes in TX).

The above reasoning didn't follow when NY paid NY bonuses, but it may remain true for a while still (or forever).


It's going to vary from firm to firm in NYC, but some of them more than make up for it in bonuses. Boise Schiller paid out insane amounts this year, every associate (except class of 2012) made over $200K total comp, some much much more with the highest earners in class of 2005 topping out over half a million, and the minimum for that year still over $300K ($264K base minimum bonus of $50k).

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby IAFG » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:31 pm

Cellar-door wrote:
IAFG wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
Not really. NYC is the most expensive city to live in, but biglaw still pays the same thing that office in DC, Chicago, LA, San Fransisco, Palo Alto, and other cheaper major cities (including those in TX) pay. You come out way ahead working in, e.g., Chicago making $160k /year relative to making $160k /year in NYC. Texas is obviously the best outcome though (with respect to highest salary relative to the CPI ... not to mention no state taxes in TX).

The above reasoning didn't follow when NY paid NY bonuses, but it may remain true for a while still (or forever).


It's going to vary from firm to firm in NYC, but some of them more than make up for it in bonuses. Boise Schiller paid out insane amounts this year, every associate (except class of 2012) made over $200K total comp, some much much more with the highest earners in class of 2005 topping out over half a million, and the minimum for that year still over $300K ($264K base minimum bonus of $50k).

Fine, but it didn't used to only be a handful of firms.

Cellar-door
Posts: 370
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:33 pm

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby Cellar-door » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:54 pm

IAFG wrote:
Cellar-door wrote:
IAFG wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
Not really. NYC is the most expensive city to live in, but biglaw still pays the same thing that office in DC, Chicago, LA, San Fransisco, Palo Alto, and other cheaper major cities (including those in TX) pay. You come out way ahead working in, e.g., Chicago making $160k /year relative to making $160k /year in NYC. Texas is obviously the best outcome though (with respect to highest salary relative to the CPI ... not to mention no state taxes in TX).

The above reasoning didn't follow when NY paid NY bonuses, but it may remain true for a while still (or forever).


It's going to vary from firm to firm in NYC, but some of them more than make up for it in bonuses. Boise Schiller paid out insane amounts this year, every associate (except class of 2012) made over $200K total comp, some much much more with the highest earners in class of 2005 topping out over half a million, and the minimum for that year still over $300K ($264K base minimum bonus of $50k).

Fine, but it didn't used to only be a handful of firms.


Yeah, I was just using it as an example of how variable the market is right now.
There are firms in NYC that pay way more, there are many who pay Cravath (160ish plus bonuses from 10-50K based on year).
There are also firms in cheaper cities that pay something like Cravath or more, and many that pay less but save you money by cheap COL.
I guess my point was that avoiding NYC where there are lots of big law jobs most paying Cravath or more seems silly to me since the number of jobs available is much higher than that in the markets with lower costs of living.
Also a lot of this seems to be predicated on the high housing cost in Manhattan, but if you live frugally outside of Manhattan for your first two years you can pay off a significant portion of your debt quickly.

User avatar
BruceWayne
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:36 pm

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby BruceWayne » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:05 pm

Blessedassurance wrote:
somewhatwayward wrote: The amount you must pay back is the same whether you get paid 160K in NYC or 130K, or less, in a secondary market (TX being one of the exceptions where you are paid 160K but get that sweet COL). NYC COL will eat that extra post-taxes 20K (and probably more) right up, so you're not getting an advantage in paying back your loans by picking NYC, but NYC's increased salary does mitigate a significant amount of that discrepancy.


160k in NYC after taxes comes out to 90-something grand. There are seven states without taxes. Crossing out states without a relatively sizable Biglaw market, you still get Texas (Dallas, Houston, and to some extent Austin), Washington (Seattle) and Florida. 120,000 in Seattle/Florida still comes to about 90-something after taxes. People taking jobs in such secondary markets come out way ahead in the first year due to COL and can dedicate a big chunk of their paycheck towards the debt. The counter-point would be lockstep in NYC in subsequent years, the counter-point to that counterpoint is that on average you're more likely to stay longer in secondary markets. NYC is absurdly expensive. A 100 grand in Texas is the equivalent of over 200 grand in NYC. You could argue that property taxes in Texas are unusually high but lol at buying property in NYC.

Now if you compare Chicago, Atlanta and even DC and San Francisco you still come out way ahead etc etc. The point is that people coming out of hys have a fair shot at secondary markets are not necessarily gunning for NYC Biglaw. People forgo NYC for secondaries all the time and are not losing sleep over V5 versus V20 etc.


LOL from now on when people start flipping out when I try to explain why HYS are in another galaxy from the rest of the top 14 (CCN included) I'm just going to sticky BlessedAssurance's posts.

User avatar
sinfiery
Posts: 3308
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:55 am

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby sinfiery » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:57 am

BruceWayne wrote:
Blessedassurance wrote:
somewhatwayward wrote: The amount you must pay back is the same whether you get paid 160K in NYC or 130K, or less, in a secondary market (TX being one of the exceptions where you are paid 160K but get that sweet COL). NYC COL will eat that extra post-taxes 20K (and probably more) right up, so you're not getting an advantage in paying back your loans by picking NYC, but NYC's increased salary does mitigate a significant amount of that discrepancy.


160k in NYC after taxes comes out to 90-something grand. There are seven states without taxes. Crossing out states without a relatively sizable Biglaw market, you still get Texas (Dallas, Houston, and to some extent Austin), Washington (Seattle) and Florida. 120,000 in Seattle/Florida still comes to about 90-something after taxes. People taking jobs in such secondary markets come out way ahead in the first year due to COL and can dedicate a big chunk of their paycheck towards the debt. The counter-point would be lockstep in NYC in subsequent years, the counter-point to that counterpoint is that on average you're more likely to stay longer in secondary markets. NYC is absurdly expensive. A 100 grand in Texas is the equivalent of over 200 grand in NYC. You could argue that property taxes in Texas are unusually high but lol at buying property in NYC.

Now if you compare Chicago, Atlanta and even DC and San Francisco you still come out way ahead etc etc. The point is that people coming out of hys have a fair shot at secondary markets are not necessarily gunning for NYC Biglaw. People forgo NYC for secondaries all the time and are not losing sleep over V5 versus V20 etc.


LOL from now on when people start flipping out when I try to explain why HYS are in another galaxy from the rest of the top 14 (CCN included) I'm just going to sticky BlessedAssurance's posts.


Well, his calculations are definitely off...

Using paycheckcity calculator, 160k after tax in NY is equal to ~103k and 145k after tax in Washington/Florida is 103k.


The COL argument is still very strong. From personal experience, COL in TX, if you try to save money, can be exceptionally low.

dixiecupdrinking
Posts: 3139
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:39 pm

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:25 pm

BigLaw in NYC is only preferable to BigLaw in another city if you actually want to live in NYC. Some people do. I kind of can't believe any part of that is still controversial to anyone.

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:26 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:BigLaw in NYC is only preferable to BigLaw in another city if you actually want to live in NYC. Some people do. I kind of can't believe any part of that is still controversial to anyone.


People who don't live in NYC don't understand why'd you want to.

Midwest is best.


User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 15457
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:43 pm

Blessedassurance wrote:http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/

A helpful tool perhaps, but unquestionably wrong on many fronts. It costs MORE for transportation in Manhanttan than Phoenix? Lolwut. Utilities are 43% more? Uh, NBA league pass is the same price here too. Rent is double per month for a smaller place, but everything else is the same. Regardless of what the calculator says, you can pay debt down a hell of a lot faster if you get NYC Biglaw than if you get PHX BigLaw, even while living in Manhattan.

User avatar
Blessedassurance
Posts: 2081
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:42 pm

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby Blessedassurance » Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:53 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
Blessedassurance wrote:http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/

A helpful tool perhaps, but unquestionably wrong on many fronts. It costs MORE for transportation in Manhanttan than Phoenix? Lolwut. Utilities are 43% more? Uh, NBA league pass is the same price here too. Rent is double per month for a smaller place, but everything else is the same. Regardless of what the calculator says, you can pay debt down a hell of a lot faster if you get NYC Biglaw than if you get PHX BigLaw, even while living in Manhattan.


You can realistically pay 50 grand a year towards debt with Dallas/Phoenix/Seattle/Atlanta etc., BigLaw. You can live in the middle of downtown Dallas in a spacious apartment with a garage and walk to work for around $1,000-$1200 or thereabouts.

The economics are undisputed. Most NY people simply focus on so-called intangibles when making arguments for New York.

User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 15457
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:08 pm

Blessedassurance wrote:You can realistically pay 50 grand a year towards debt with Dallas/Phoenix/Seattle/Atlanta etc., BigLaw. You can live in the middle of downtown Dallas in a spacious apartment with a garage and walk to work for around $1,000-$1200 or thereabouts.


To the extent Phoenix BigLaw even exists, it pays 120K at most, usually lower, and with tiny raises. If you can sock away 50K in after-tax income on that then congrats. Dallas just isn't fair because the salary/cost of living ratio is ridiculously kickass, but you can pay $1200 a month for a (much shittier) place in NYC too. If paying debt matters then you make sacrifices, and around NYC you have lots of options for sacrifices. Cost of living calculators just don't do a good job of taking that into account.

User avatar
Rahviveh
Posts: 2271
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:02 pm

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby Rahviveh » Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:10 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
Blessedassurance wrote:You can realistically pay 50 grand a year towards debt with Dallas/Phoenix/Seattle/Atlanta etc., BigLaw. You can live in the middle of downtown Dallas in a spacious apartment with a garage and walk to work for around $1,000-$1200 or thereabouts.


To the extent Phoenix BigLaw even exists, it pays 120K at most, usually lower, and with tiny raises. If you can sock away 50K in after-tax income on that then congrats. Dallas just isn't fair because the salary/cost of living ratio is ridiculously kickass, but you can pay $1200 a month for a (much shittier) place in NYC too. If paying debt matters then you make sacrifices, and around NYC you have lots of options for sacrifices. Cost of living calculators just don't do a good job of taking that into account.


Dont you basically have to get roommates to get cheap places like that in NY?

User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 15457
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:12 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
Blessedassurance wrote:You can realistically pay 50 grand a year towards debt with Dallas/Phoenix/Seattle/Atlanta etc., BigLaw. You can live in the middle of downtown Dallas in a spacious apartment with a garage and walk to work for around $1,000-$1200 or thereabouts.


To the extent Phoenix BigLaw even exists, it pays 120K at most, usually lower, and with tiny raises. If you can sock away 50K in after-tax income on that then congrats. Dallas just isn't fair because the salary/cost of living ratio is ridiculously kickass, but you can pay $1200 a month for a (much shittier) place in NYC too. If paying debt matters then you make sacrifices, and around NYC you have lots of options for sacrifices. Cost of living calculators just don't do a good job of taking that into account.


Dont you basically have to get roommates to get cheap places like that in NY?

Or mooch off wife.

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby IAFG » Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:16 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
Blessedassurance wrote:You can realistically pay 50 grand a year towards debt with Dallas/Phoenix/Seattle/Atlanta etc., BigLaw. You can live in the middle of downtown Dallas in a spacious apartment with a garage and walk to work for around $1,000-$1200 or thereabouts.


To the extent Phoenix BigLaw even exists, it pays 120K at most, usually lower, and with tiny raises. If you can sock away 50K in after-tax income on that then congrats. Dallas just isn't fair because the salary/cost of living ratio is ridiculously kickass, but you can pay $1200 a month for a (much shittier) place in NYC too. If paying debt matters then you make sacrifices, and around NYC you have lots of options for sacrifices. Cost of living calculators just don't do a good job of taking that into account.

If you're willing to make the sacrifice of living somewhere shitty though, you could pay really practically nothing in rent in places like Phoenix. Like $400 a month.

User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 15457
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: something a practicing big law lawyer told me: is this BS?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:19 pm

IAFG wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
Blessedassurance wrote:You can realistically pay 50 grand a year towards debt with Dallas/Phoenix/Seattle/Atlanta etc., BigLaw. You can live in the middle of downtown Dallas in a spacious apartment with a garage and walk to work for around $1,000-$1200 or thereabouts.


To the extent Phoenix BigLaw even exists, it pays 120K at most, usually lower, and with tiny raises. If you can sock away 50K in after-tax income on that then congrats. Dallas just isn't fair because the salary/cost of living ratio is ridiculously kickass, but you can pay $1200 a month for a (much shittier) place in NYC too. If paying debt matters then you make sacrifices, and around NYC you have lots of options for sacrifices. Cost of living calculators just don't do a good job of taking that into account.

If you're willing to make the sacrifice of living somewhere shitty though, you could pay really practically nothing in rent in places like Phoenix. Like $400 a month.

Realistically you can live with a roommate in the center of Phoenix (not necessarily even shitty) and pay $400 a month, but then you're only saving maybe $1000 a month while earning 50K less per year. Once you get past housing everything else is a wash, with NYC slightly cheaper for transportation unless you really go shitty in Phoenix and take the light rail and don't own a car.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests