Georgetown VS USC

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wbrother
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Georgetown VS USC

Postby wbrother » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:08 pm

So far I've been accepted to Georgetown and USC. I'm from Los Angeles and have lived in CA my hole life. I haven't received any scholarship info yet, I'm assuming COA will be about the same. My dream is to be employed in PI work in CA, but my goal is to just be employed as a lawyer doing something somewhere. Georgetown is in the elite T14 everyone talks about, but my understanding is that they are at the bottom of that group. Are the prospects at Georgetown much better than at USC? Would I be better served to give up my CA dreams and just focus on getting employed?

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Scotchandsoda
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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby Scotchandsoda » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:30 pm

Since you live in Cali and want to work there USC is by far the better choice between those two schools.

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wbrother
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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby wbrother » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:50 pm

Scotchandsoda wrote:Since you live in Cali and want to work there USC is by far the better choice between those two schools.

That's what I think, but is "wanting to work in Cali" a reasonable goal in this economy? Should I just focus on wanting to work?

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dingbat
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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby dingbat » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:56 pm

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Aik9aY0xMn8JdHZpRzRGNmpIVnFMMTJ0bXNRS0NBd3c&gid=11
Keep in mind that USC places better in LA than Georgetown does.
LA>>>>>>>>>>>any job - USC
any job>LA - Georgetown
LA>any job - Georgetown

BigZuck
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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:03 am

You think COA will be the same because you'll be paying sticker? If that's the case and these are your only two options then I'd rethink going to law school.

Given your goals I think USC with a scholarship would be a fine choice.

Your cycle is far from over, why are you asking this now? Why not wait, you might have much better options before all is said and done.

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wbrother
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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby wbrother » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:37 am

BigZuck wrote:You think COA will be the same because you'll be paying sticker? If that's the case and these are your only two options then I'd rethink going to law school.

Given your goals I think USC with a scholarship would be a fine choice.

Your cycle is far from over, why are you asking this now? Why not wait, you might have much better options before all is said and done.


I guess COA won't be be the same, but I think financially things will be kind of a wash. I think I'll get a better aid package from USC, but Georgetown will have better PI stuff (Better LRAP, almost guaranteed funding for summer PI jobs). So the cost at Georgetown might by higher, but I'll get the opportunity to make money/not have to repay as much.

I know I don't have enough information (Scholly Info, etc.) and I'm definitely going to wait till my cycle is over. TLS is just a great resource and I didn't want to wait till everyone is too busy celebrating their T14 acceptances to answer my silly questions.

jstr00az
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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby jstr00az » Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:00 am

wbrother wrote:
BigZuck wrote:You think COA will be the same because you'll be paying sticker? If that's the case and these are your only two options then I'd rethink going to law school.

Given your goals I think USC with a scholarship would be a fine choice.

Your cycle is far from over, why are you asking this now? Why not wait, you might have much better options before all is said and done.


I guess COA won't be be the same, but I think financially things will be kind of a wash. I think I'll get a better aid package from USC, but Georgetown will have better PI stuff (Better LRAP, almost guaranteed funding for summer PI jobs). So the cost at Georgetown might by higher, but I'll get the opportunity to make money/not have to repay as much.

I know I don't have enough information (Scholly Info, etc.) and I'm definitely going to wait till my cycle is over. TLS is just a great resource and I didn't want to wait till everyone is too busy celebrating their T14 acceptances to answer my silly questions.


Why do you want to spend $150k and up to earn $40k to $50k in PI? If helping people is your thing, don't you think you can do that in creative ways. You can even dream up ways to litigate and hire some attorney to do it for a fraction of the cost.

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wbrother
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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby wbrother » Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:49 am

jstr00az wrote:
wbrother wrote:
BigZuck wrote:You think COA will be the same because you'll be paying sticker? If that's the case and these are your only two options then I'd rethink going to law school.

Given your goals I think USC with a scholarship would be a fine choice.

Your cycle is far from over, why are you asking this now? Why not wait, you might have much better options before all is said and done.


I guess COA won't be be the same, but I think financially things will be kind of a wash. I think I'll get a better aid package from USC, but Georgetown will have better PI stuff (Better LRAP, almost guaranteed funding for summer PI jobs). So the cost at Georgetown might by higher, but I'll get the opportunity to make money/not have to repay as much.

I know I don't have enough information (Scholly Info, etc.) and I'm definitely going to wait till my cycle is over. TLS is just a great resource and I didn't want to wait till everyone is too busy celebrating their T14 acceptances to answer my silly questions.


Why do you want to spend $150k and up to earn $40k to $50k in PI? If helping people is your thing, don't you think you can do that in creative ways. You can even dream up ways to litigate and hire some attorney to do it for a fraction of the cost.

Well average in CA are 50-60k (90k if you make SF PD), but point well taken. I guess it's hard to explain the attraction to PI if you don't have it, but every year people sign up to be PDs, DAs, and attorney's at the Department of X. I'm sure they all have unique experience that make doing anything else seem crazy, but they all undoubtedly have the same commitment to the ideals of public service that I do. I had those values instilled in me at a young age and it's in my blood. I'm trying to figure out which PI pad my resume and still keep other options open (SEC? DoL? DoT?), but PI is my goal.

jstr00az
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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby jstr00az » Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:05 pm

wbrother wrote:
jstr00az wrote:
wbrother wrote:
BigZuck wrote:You think COA will be the same because you'll be paying sticker? If that's the case and these are your only two options then I'd rethink going to law school.

Given your goals I think USC with a scholarship would be a fine choice.

Your cycle is far from over, why are you asking this now? Why not wait, you might have much better options before all is said and done.


I guess COA won't be be the same, but I think financially things will be kind of a wash. I think I'll get a better aid package from USC, but Georgetown will have better PI stuff (Better LRAP, almost guaranteed funding for summer PI jobs). So the cost at Georgetown might by higher, but I'll get the opportunity to make money/not have to repay as much.

I know I don't have enough information (Scholly Info, etc.) and I'm definitely going to wait till my cycle is over. TLS is just a great resource and I didn't want to wait till everyone is too busy celebrating their T14 acceptances to answer my silly questions.


Why do you want to spend $150k and up to earn $40k to $50k in PI? If helping people is your thing, don't you think you can do that in creative ways. You can even dream up ways to litigate and hire some attorney to do it for a fraction of the cost.

Well average in CA are 50-60k (90k if you make SF PD), but point well taken. I guess it's hard to explain the attraction to PI if you don't have it, but every year people sign up to be PDs, DAs, and attorney's at the Department of X. I'm sure they all have unique experience that make doing anything else seem crazy, but they all undoubtedly have the same commitment to the ideals of public service that I do. I had those values instilled in me at a young age and it's in my blood. I'm trying to figure out which PI pad my resume and still keep other options open (SEC? DoL? DoT?), but PI is my goal.


I worked in a PD office. I know what this kind of work is. Do you?

jstr00az
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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby jstr00az » Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:08 pm

wbrother wrote:
jstr00az wrote:
wbrother wrote:
BigZuck wrote:You think COA will be the same because you'll be paying sticker? If that's the case and these are your only two options then I'd rethink going to law school.

Given your goals I think USC with a scholarship would be a fine choice.

Your cycle is far from over, why are you asking this now? Why not wait, you might have much better options before all is said and done.


I guess COA won't be be the same, but I think financially things will be kind of a wash. I think I'll get a better aid package from USC, but Georgetown will have better PI stuff (Better LRAP, almost guaranteed funding for summer PI jobs). So the cost at Georgetown might by higher, but I'll get the opportunity to make money/not have to repay as much.

I know I don't have enough information (Scholly Info, etc.) and I'm definitely going to wait till my cycle is over. TLS is just a great resource and I didn't want to wait till everyone is too busy celebrating their T14 acceptances to answer my silly questions.


Why do you want to spend $150k and up to earn $40k to $50k in PI? If helping people is your thing, don't you think you can do that in creative ways. You can even dream up ways to litigate and hire some attorney to do it for a fraction of the cost.

Well average in CA are 50-60k (90k if you make SF PD), but point well taken. I guess it's hard to explain the attraction to PI if you don't have it, but every year people sign up to be PDs, DAs, and attorney's at the Department of X. I'm sure they all have unique experience that make doing anything else seem crazy, but they all undoubtedly have the same commitment to the ideals of public service that I do. I had those values instilled in me at a young age and it's in my blood. I'm trying to figure out which PI pad my resume and still keep other options open (SEC? DoL? DoT?), but PI is my goal.


Clearly you have no clue what this work entails. Those values can be applied to helping people. Nothing in those values says anything about getting an expensive law degree with a small chance at doing PI and a bigger chance of having no way to finance your debt.

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wbrother
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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby wbrother » Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:46 pm

jstr00az wrote:Why do you want to spend $150k and up to earn $40k to $50k in PI? If helping people is your thing, don't you think you can do that in creative ways. You can even dream up ways to litigate and hire some attorney to do it for a fraction of the cost.

Well average in CA are 50-60k (90k if you make SF PD), but point well taken. I guess it's hard to explain the attraction to PI if you don't have it, but every year people sign up to be PDs, DAs, and attorney's at the Department of X. I'm sure they all have unique experience that make doing anything else seem crazy, but they all undoubtedly have the same commitment to the ideals of public service that I do. I had those values instilled in me at a young age and it's in my blood. I'm trying to figure out which PI pad my resume and still keep other options open (SEC? DoL? DoT?), but PI is my goal.[/quote]

Clearly you have no clue what this work entails. Those values can be applied to helping people. Nothing in those values says anything about getting an expensive law degree with a small chance at doing PI and a bigger chance of having no way to finance your debt.[/quote]
Well there's no reason to get in an idealogical debate about whether PI Attorneys are wasting their lives. I understand why the majority of students won't be gunning for PI/Gov work. It is what I want right now though.

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dingbat
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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby dingbat » Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:57 pm

wbrother wrote:Well there's no reason to get in an idealogical debate about whether PI Attorneys are wasting their lives. I understand why the majority of students won't be gunning for PI/Gov work. It is what I want right now though.

Either go to the cheapest school (more precisely, best school to give you a large scholarship), or the one with the best LRAP

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wbrother
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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby wbrother » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:15 am

dingbat wrote:
wbrother wrote:Well there's no reason to get in an idealogical debate about whether PI Attorneys are wasting their lives. I understand why the majority of students won't be gunning for PI/Gov work. It is what I want right now though.

Either go to the cheapest school (more precisely, best school to give you a large scholarship), or the one with the best LRAP

Well if I understand Georgetown's LRAP correctly, I can have my loan payments covered for 10 years if I make under 75k. Combine that with IBR and PI Loan Forgiveness and it sounds like I'll be going to school for free if I make under 75k doing PI work? Am I missing something?

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dingbat
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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby dingbat » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:19 am

wbrother wrote:
dingbat wrote:
wbrother wrote:Well there's no reason to get in an idealogical debate about whether PI Attorneys are wasting their lives. I understand why the majority of students won't be gunning for PI/Gov work. It is what I want right now though.

Either go to the cheapest school (more precisely, best school to give you a large scholarship), or the one with the best LRAP

Well if I understand Georgetown's LRAP correctly, I can have my loan payments covered for 10 years if I make under 75k. Combine that with IBR and PI Loan Forgiveness and it sounds like I'll be going to school for free if I make under 75k doing PI work? Am I missing something?

I don't know, my knowledge of LRAP is virtually non-existent because I have no interest in the public

M458
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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby M458 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:15 am

wbrother wrote:
dingbat wrote:
wbrother wrote:Well there's no reason to get in an idealogical debate about whether PI Attorneys are wasting their lives. I understand why the majority of students won't be gunning for PI/Gov work. It is what I want right now though.

Either go to the cheapest school (more precisely, best school to give you a large scholarship), or the one with the best LRAP

Well if I understand Georgetown's LRAP correctly, I can have my loan payments covered for 10 years if I make under 75k. Combine that with IBR and PI Loan Forgiveness and it sounds like I'll be going to school for free if I make under 75k doing PI work? Am I missing something?


I think you just need to know exactly what Georgetown considers to be eligible under their LRAP. Also, you'll have to look into this more carefully as I've only seen it be casually mentioned, I think you're still on the hook for the taxes on your debt at the end of the 10 years; not sure how substantial that would be on the type of debt you're planning to take out there.

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wolf
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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby wolf » Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:59 pm

wbrother wrote:
dingbat wrote:
wbrother wrote:Well there's no reason to get in an idealogical debate about whether PI Attorneys are wasting their lives. I understand why the majority of students won't be gunning for PI/Gov work. It is what I want right now though.

Either go to the cheapest school (more precisely, best school to give you a large scholarship), or the one with the best LRAP

Well if I understand Georgetown's LRAP correctly, I can have my loan payments covered for 10 years if I make under 75k. Combine that with IBR and PI Loan Forgiveness and it sounds like I'll be going to school for free if I make under 75k doing PI work? Am I missing something?


I am a 1L at Georgetown. You've got it right. Also if your married you can make an additional $4k, so $79K and it is still 100% covered by the school. You get an additional $4K for every dependent. There is a sliding scale where you are still partially covered by LRAP until you make over $120K. Under PSLF and LRAP you are not responsible for the tax bomb at the end of your loan period under IBR.

If you know you want PI and you make less than $75K, you can go to GT for free. Outside of HYS, Georgetown's LRAP is one of the most generous.

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bk1
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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby bk1 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:09 pm

This discussion is premature. You don't know if you'll get scholarship money from either of those and you don't know what other schools you'll get into. You might not even be making a decision between USC/GULC at sticker so it doesn't make sense to stress over it until it's actually the decision you have to make.

Paul Campos
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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby Paul Campos » Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:03 pm

The successful acquisition of an LRAP-eligible job (at GULC this means government/non-profit JD required or preferred) tends to get assumed into existence in these threads.

If you can go to GULC for "free"* if you get this kind of job, what does that tell you about getting these kinds of jobs?

*Note: like almost everybody else GULC has dovetailed its LRAP with IBR, so the taxpayers will be picking up the bulk of the bill. This of course could change.

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wbrother
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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby wbrother » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:38 pm

Paul Campos wrote:The successful acquisition of an LRAP-eligible job (at GULC this means government/non-profit JD required or preferred) tends to get assumed into existence in these threads.

If you can go to GULC for "free"* if you get this kind of job, what does that tell you about getting these kinds of jobs?

*Note: like almost everybody else GULC has dovetailed its LRAP with IBR, so the taxpayers will be picking up the bulk of the bill. This of course could change.

It's no secrete that these jobs are super competitive. A lot of these opportunities state that they only except the top 25% of a given class. I don't think anyone is assuming they get these jobs, they're just assuming that the risks are well known. People in the bottom 50% of the class will probably find it near impossible to find JD work of any kind, meaning that Law School will end up being a bad decisions for almost half of the students at either of these schools. I think (and hope) everyone on these boards understands these risks.

PS I was legitimately stoked to see your name in a thread I started.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby Elston Gunn » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:58 pm

wbrother wrote:
Paul Campos wrote:The successful acquisition of an LRAP-eligible job (at GULC this means government/non-profit JD required or preferred) tends to get assumed into existence in these threads.

If you can go to GULC for "free"* if you get this kind of job, what does that tell you about getting these kinds of jobs?

*Note: like almost everybody else GULC has dovetailed its LRAP with IBR, so the taxpayers will be picking up the bulk of the bill. This of course could change.

It's no secrete that these jobs are super competitive. A lot of these opportunities state that they only except the top 25% of a given class. I don't think anyone is assuming they get these jobs, they're just assuming that the risks are well known. People in the bottom 50% of the class will probably find it near impossible to find JD work of any kind, meaning that Law School will end up being a bad decisions for almost half of the students at either of these schools. I think (and hope) everyone on these boards understands these risks.

PS I was legitimately stoked to see your name in a thread I started.


Wait, you believe that you will have a 50% chance of graduating unable to to get a JD-required job at all and having A QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS OF DEBT, and you think it's a good idea to go to law school???

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby Doorkeeper » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:07 pm

If you really want to do PI work in the short to medium term, then this whole discussion is fruitless until you get your scholarship information.

Edit- Scooped by bk.

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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:48 pm

If you're dead set on working in CA and want PI you need to either retake or go to Davis/Hastings/USD/Pepperdine with huge $$$$.

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wbrother
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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby wbrother » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:41 pm

Elston Gunn wrote:Wait, you believe that you will have a 50% chance of graduating unable to to get a JD-required job at all and having A QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS OF DEBT, and you think it's a good idea to go to law school???


Those are the facts right? Nationally only 55% of graduates from ABA law schools were able to secure JD-required jobs. It's higher at USC and Georgetown, but obviously sticker at either of these schools is a very bad idea. I think I need to clarify that I haven't YET received scholarship info. I'm not going at sticker.

BarbellDreams wrote:If you're dead set on working in CA and want PI you need to either retake or go to Davis/Hastings/USD/Pepperdine with huge $$$$.


I will definitely take the year off if I my options are looking bleak. Would Hastings with $$$$ really be a better idea than USC or Georgetown with just $$? PI/Gov jobs seem to be extremely competitive, so I'm interested in hearing your thinking. Is it just the lower risk which makes those schools more attractive, or are the PI prospects at those schools not as low as I think?

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:55 pm

I will definitely take the year off if I my options are looking bleak. Would Hastings with $$$$ really be a better idea than USC or Georgetown with just $$? PI/Gov jobs seem to be extremely competitive, so I'm interested in hearing your thinking. Is it just the lower risk which makes those schools more attractive, or are the PI prospects at those schools not as low as I think?


I was going on the assumption that you did not have a scholly at either school. If you are getting $$ from GULC you're likely gonna get into Boalt and I would just go there, even at sticker, over the other options. Though again, GULC with $$ likely = USC with $$$ or possibly UCLA with $$$ and basically fullrides to Davis/Hastings/Loyola. At that point all the latter become better options IMO. Really until you get your scholly info this is hard to advise on, as I was going on sticker at GULC assumption. Fullride with no stips at a school like Davis/Hastings is a pretty good bet for PI though, it would be hard to pass up for me.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Georgetown VS USC

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:18 pm

Elston Gunn wrote:Wait, you believe that you will have a 50% chance of graduating unable to to get a JD-required job at all and having A QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS OF DEBT, and you think it's a good idea to go to law school???


wbrother wrote:Would I be better served to give up my CA dreams and just focus on getting employed?


You don't have to give up your dreams of working in CA, but some geographic flexibility might be helpful.




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